Do you support the Minutemen? Well don't

[Califman831]

Which map should we get? the one showing the Apaches in control of the Southwest or the one showing the Anasazi in control if the Southwest?

The maps of North and South America. Those who have ancestors dating earlier than the European invasion are the true Americans. This does not apply solely to Mayans, Incas, but all native tribes including the ones you mentioned. As history has recorded your ancestors were not all that friendly to the apaches or the Cherokee. The rivers run deep with the genocide committed by Euros. Does the trail of tears and the massacre at Wounded Knee ring any bells?.

 

[estesbob]

The maps of North and South America. Those who have ancestors dating earlier than the European invasion are the true Americans. This does not apply solely to Mayans, Incas, but all native tribes including the ones you mentioned. As history has recorded your ancestors were not all that friendly to the apaches or the Cherokee. The rivers run deep with the genocide committed by Euros. Does the trail of tears and the massacre at Wounded Knee ring any bells?.

Yes terrible things happened. So what does that have to do with the Minutemen?

 

[Califman831]

Yes terrible things happened. So what does that have to do with the Minutemen?

What gets me is the hypocrisy of being against immigrants while at the same time they are decedents of immigrants that committed the very same acts they now accuse “Latinos” and others of committing. I think there are some individuals that honestly support a controlled border policy, but many members of the minutemen, sos, etc are using these organizations as cover to express their hatred. Notice how they like to label anyone Latino as an illegal.and non-American regardless of their real status.

 

[estesbob]

What gets me is the hypocrisy of being against immigrants while at the same time they are decedents of immigrants that committed the very same acts they now accuse “Latinos” and others of committing. I think there are some individuals that honestly support a controlled border policy, but many members of the minutemen, sos, etc are using these organizations as cover to express their hatred. Notice how they like to label anyone Latino as an illegal.and non-American regardless of their real status.

So we have to have open borders because some of these guys ancestors were either immigrants or didi terrible things to Native Americans? Im sorry but their is no logic to that.

And no I have not noiticed how they (whoever “they” are like to label anyone who is a Latino as illegal or non-american.

And BTW in reading your posts it seems like you are harboring a fair amoutn of hate yourself.

 

[jj2011]

So jj, by your logic, Judas Iscariot proves the treacherous nature inherent to christianity.

Guilt by association is BAD policy. Suspicion by association might be OK if it leads you to discover more solid evidence, but your logic here of

1. Here’s a buch of creeps claiming the title Minutemen behaving badly.
2. There are people taking the title in many other places.
3. Ergo, they are all rogue creeps just like the ones in the video.

Bad, bad, DANGEROUS reasoning.

If you look back up thread, you’ll see that it was a minuteman sympathizer who first brought up the associated/unassociated business.

The fact is that Simcox promised elaborate screening to eliminate extremists, and I was able to find evidence of neo-Nazi volunteers in minuteman activities with a simple google search.

That’s not guilt by association; it’s a simple demonstration that you can’t take at face value what Simcox says.

 

[Califman831]

So we have to have open borders because some of these guys ancestors were either immigrants or didi terrible things to Native Americans? Im sorry but their is no logic to that.

the Americas belong to Americans, not to the Euros. Return what your ancestors stole and murdered for. Its one of the commandments "Thou shall not steal’ and also falls under “thou shall not convent anything that is thy neighbor”. Having committed the sins, the only recourse is to make amends. Return the hemisphere to the natives

Have you ever been to an anti-immigrant gathering, its an eye wakening experience. In the article by the original poster. the protesters were making deportation threats against a family they did not even confirm was “illegal”. What they did notice was their obvious non-anglo features.

And BTW in reading your posts it seems like you are harboring a fair amoutn of hate yourself.

so do most victims of crime, sue me.

[/QUOTE]

 

[estesbob]

the Americas belong to Americans, not to the Euros. Return what your ancestors stole and murdered for. Its one of the commandments "Thou shall not steal’ and also falls under “thou shall not convent anything that is thy neighbor”. Having committed the sins, the only recourse is to make amends. Return the hemisphere to the natives

Ok-we see where you are coming from. bye.

 

[Califman831]

ok, now that i calmed down a little. I must say am usually a mellow guy except on a couple of topics. Your are correct that am harboring hate. It is one of the issues am struggling with, and may god lead me down a different path. I actually came here to find some clues towards peace, not to get into something heated.

 

[rlg94086]

ok, now that i calmed down a little. I must say am usually a mellow guy except on a couple of topics. Your are correct that am harboring hate. It is one of the issues am struggling with, and may god lead me down a different path. I actually came here to find some clues towards peace, not to get into something heated.

Hi Califman831 (Monterey?),

Welcome to the Fora. iIf you are looking for clues towards peace, then you might want to go to one of the other fora (Moral Theology, Apologetics, etc.) where there is no news. Because, as we all know, “no news is good news.” Here there are mostly arguments about the news.

Pax,
Robert

 

[Dale_M]

I think you may be on to something …

Are you suggesting that Minutemen tend to be felons?

 

[Califman831]

Hi Califman831 (Monterey?),

Welcome to the Fora. iIf you are looking for clues towards peace, then you might want to go to one of the other fora (Moral Theology, Apologetics, etc.) where there is no news. Because, as we all know, “no news is good news.” Here there are mostly arguments about the news.

Pax,
Robert

Actually, a small town in south Monterey County. We just got a new bishop (Reverend Richard J. Garcia)

 

[Philothea53]

You know, this whole immigration thing has really gotten screwed up somewhere along the line. It all started out, if you think back, to the question of how we were going to secure our borders from terrorists - you know, those people who want to come into our country and blow things up and kill thousands of people?

Before we could blink, the terrorist threat was forgotten and it was all about those terrible Mexican people taking our (fast-food and crop-picking) jobs. What happened? Who are we to not follow our Church’s teaching to feed, clothe and shelter the poor? That’s what these people are. POOR, DIRT POOR. They are not the ones we need to be building a fence against. We should be caring for them while keeping out the REAL bad guys.

“So faith, hope, and love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” (1Cor. 13:13).

 

[turtleoompa]

Illegal border crossers from Mexico are breaking the LAW. Our LAWS need to be obeyed by all or else it will lead to chaos. I have taught my children to obey the laws of this land. Our politicians are teaching our children there are no consequences for breaking the law. My parents came here legally and it was not easy. Our Nation will become a third world country like Mexico if it continues to allow illegals to flow in at this rate. These people of Mexico have a beautiful country and their system needs to be revised. The people will not fix their country if they are given an easy way out by comming here… We can only help them by helping them stay in their country and make it a better place.

 

[Philothea53]

The people will not fix their country if they are given an easy way out by comming here. We can only help them by helping them stay in their country and make it a better place.

I know there is no sense in battling this back and forth so I won’t reply after this I’m sure you know that coming here is not an easy way out for them. They leave family and familiarity behind and work very hard for the little bit they get. In the meantime, we are doing absolutely nothing to help them make their country a better place. We are forgetting that we are charged with doing unto the least of these. If it wouldn’t hurt them so badly I wish they would all just not show up at the horse farms to muck out the stables or the local Micky D’s or to pick the crops for a week. Just a week. We would be begging them to come.

We need to keep our eyes on the real issue at hand and that is fighting terrorists and those whose only goal is to kill as many Americans as they can. The Mexican people are not here to hurt us. They need our help. As Catholics, how can we say no? We nominate for sainthood the Blessed Mother Teresa for the work she had done for the poor halfway around the world then turn around and send home our neighbors who have come to us for help. And we do this without a thought to their welfare - temporal or eternal. What hypocrites we can be.

 

[Philothea53]

Illegal border crossers from Mexico are breaking the LAW. Our LAWS need to be obeyed by all or else it will lead to chaos. I have taught my children to obey the laws of this land. Our politicians are teaching our children there are no consequences for breaking the law. My parents came here legally and it was not easy. Our Nation will become a third world country like Mexico if it continues to allow illegals to flow in at this rate. These people of Mexico have a beautiful country and their system needs to be revised. The people will not fix their country if they are given an easy way out by comming here… We can only help them by helping them stay in their country and make it a better place.

Your post is all about THE LAW but you are forgetting the greatest law of all: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” In case you’ve forgotten, this was said by He who also said, “When you do unto the least of these, you do unto me.”

 

[sprout]

I agree with Bill Donohue, this kind of behavior on the part of the Minutemen should be condemned.

As far as the immigration issue goes I stand firmly with the teachings of the Catholic Church. Here’s a website that I’ve read regarding the Church’s teachings on these issues:

www.justiceforimmigrants.com

btw: did you know that oppressing the foreigner is one of the sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance?

You shall not molest or oppress a foreigner, for you were once foreigners yourselves in the land of Egypt. You shall not wrong any widow or orphan. If ever you wrong them and they cry out to me, I will surely hear their cry. Exodus 22:20-22

and

Do not exploit the foreigners who live in your land. They should be treated like everyone else, and you must love them as you love yourself. Remember that you were once foreigners in the land of Egypt. I, the LORD, am your God. Leviticus 19:33-34

Here’s an excerpt from another website “The Oscar Romero Catholic Worker Community” I’ve read discussing this very issue of what God’s command entails:

Foreigners were a second class of people that were of special concern to God. This term (sometimes translated alien, sojourner or stranger) refers to anyone living in the community who is not part of the tribes of Israel. They were often poor (Willis “Alien” 20). Various statements in the Bible suggest a link with other oppressed groups such as widows and orphans (Coughenour 561). Israel was to remember and be kind to these people, because they themselves had once been strangers in Egypt, where they were oppressed. Foreigners, together with the widows and orphans, were allowed to glean the fields after they had been harvested. (Deut. 24:19-21, Holwerda “Widow” 1060). The penalty for disobedience to this law is oppression of the oppressors (Holwerda “Widow” 1061). We should note that at the very beginning of Christ’s life, Mary and Joseph take him to Egypt, fleeing the massacre of the Holy Innocents. They live as refugees - strangers - in a foreign land until the time is right for them to return. Indeed, the Holy Family is the archetypical refugee family, fleeing persecution. justpeace.org/foreigner.htm

 

[turtleoompa]

Thanks for the quotes.

 

[Walking_Home]

I agree with Bill Donohue, this kind of behavior on the part of the Minutemen should be condemned.

As far as the immigration issue goes I stand firmly with the teachings of the Catholic Church. Here’s a website that I’ve read regarding the Church’s teachings on these issues:

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Then you should be standing firmly for this: Does not seem the immigrant who enters this country illegally is following Church teaching —when in the first place—they break the law to enter.

CCC

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7W.HTM

2241…
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.

 

[turtleoompa]

Thanks for this most recent quote. I want to be a good charitable Catholic. But I obey the laws of my country and it is from our southern border that the terorists have tried to cross. This has been proven. How to we be charitable and yet protect our people? There is also a deadly TB strain from Mexico that we need to protect our people from as well as many other diseases they are not innoculated for. I want to be charitable. But how can we have it both ways?

 

[Walking_Home]

Thanks for this most recent quote. I want to be a good charitable Catholic. But I obey the laws of my country and it is from our southern border that the terorists have tried to cross. This has been proven. How to we be charitable and yet protect our people? There is also a deadly TB strain from Mexico that we need to protect our people from as well as many other diseases they are not innoculated for. I want to be charitable. But how can we have it both ways?

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Follow the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Church teaching says the U.S. has a right to have laws to regulate immigration —and the immigrants are obligated to obey the laws.