Do you think college should be free?

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Who’s going to pay for it? People living from paycheck to paycheck?
 
Here, in a nutshell, is the problem with liberal arts in universities today. Maybe not all, but it’s a big problem. I know a person who did their doctoral thesis on a famous writer (Flannery O’Connor, for the Catholic connection). This person was told flat out that if they did not incorporate a feminist / LGBTQ perspective, the thesis would be rejected.
 
snarflemike said:
Here, in a nutshell, is the problem with liberal arts in universities today. Maybe not all, but it’s a big problem. I know a person who did their doctoral thesis on a famous writer (Flannery O’Connor, for the Catholic connection). This person was told flat out that if they did not incorporate a feminist / LGBTQ perspective, the thesis would be rejected.
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It is impossible to judge from just one side of the story and without any context whether this was a justified demand. Indeed, stories related by one party who also happens to be one of the sides of a confrontation should always to subject to suspicion.
 
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I think higher education should be suppressed for most people. It isn’t a right, nor should it be expected for the vast majority of people. In fact I would cap out mandatory education at around grade 6 or so and get the kids working in a field they have the most aptitude for. Something like as an apprentice, building up their skill and confidence through doing the work they are oriented towards. Feel free to flame now.
 
snarflemike said:
Here, in a nutshell, is the problem with liberal arts in universities today. Maybe not all, but it’s a big problem. I know a person who did their doctoral thesis on a famous writer (Flannery O’Connor, for the Catholic connection). This person was told flat out that if they did not incorporate a feminist / LGBTQ perspective, the thesis would be rejected.
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Linking Flannery O’Conner to a feminist/LGBTQ perspective would be a difficult and contradictory task for a thesis writer. It would be like finding a Stalinist perspective in Pope Leo XIII.
 
JimG said:
Linking Flannery O’Conner to a feminist/LGBTQ perspective would be a difficult and contradictory task for a thesis writer. It would be like finding a Stalinist perspective in Pope Leo XIII.
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Yeah, that’s pretty much what my friend thought. But she kissed the progressive ring just enough to get the job done, and now she’s busy de-programming the next generation of students.
 
You mean do I think taxpayers should pay for everyone’s college? No. Absolutely not. It’s crazy to think that would “pencil out”. I can’t believe this would ever be a part of any serious discussion.
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
It is impossible to judge from just one side of the story and without any context whether this was a justified demand. Indeed, stories related by one party who also happens to be one of the sides of a confrontation should always to subject to suspicion.
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Or take what was said as true and comment on if it was appropriate.
 
I don’t think college should be free, but maybe coffee should. But on the other hand, I really wouldn’t want to bury the coffee houses. That would be a drag on the economy.
 
AlmaRedemptorisMater said:
I think higher education should be suppressed for most people. It isn’t a right, nor should it be expected for the vast majority of people. In fact I would cap out mandatory education at around grade 6 or so and get the kids working in a field they have the most aptitude for. Something like as an apprentice, building up their skill and confidence through doing the work they are oriented towards. Feel free to flame now.
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Your view is a good 100 years too late. Most can’t select a single trade for life so they need more than 6 yrs of general education.

I think a solid K-12 education where graduates could read, write, and do algebra would be a good entry point for many apprentice type opportunities.

A four year degree is needed to enter most medical and stem fields though.

Masters and PHDs though should be more restricted, not just be the next step for someone with a BA and no specific career aspiration.
 
Theo520 said:
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LeafByNiggle:
It is impossible to judge from just one side of the story and without any context whether this was a justified demand. Indeed, stories related by one party who also happens to be one of the sides of a confrontation should always to subject to suspicion.
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Or take what was said as true and comment on if it was appropriate.
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As Arthur Conan Doyle wrote: “‘It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” (-A Scandal in Bohemia)
 
LeafByNiggle said:
As Arthur Conan Doyle wrote: “‘It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” (- A Scandal in Bohemia )
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an anecdotal story was presented, and you deftly deflected from commenting,
but did manage to post.
 
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Theo520 said:
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LeafByNiggle:
As Arthur Conan Doyle wrote: “‘It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” (- A Scandal in Bohemia )
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an anecdotal story was presented, and you deftly deflected from commenting
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The barest outline of a story was hinted at. At this point we are no better a position than Sherlock Holmes after receiving the note from the King of Bohemia. There is nothing that can be said without assuming facts not in evidence.
 
I don’t think it should be free. I made the choice to go to college, no one forced me to go. I do think that there should be a better way to reduce student loans. I more importantly think that it needs to be more affordable not to go to college. We need more jobs that do not require a college education and that are more hands on learning, even if it means just doing a 6 month - 1 year internship in that role.
 
Without speaking directly to the Flannery O’Connor case, I think it could be argued that at one time, (the '50s for example) it was more difficult for leftist oriented academics to find professorial positions at universities here. I personally know several who muted their rhetoric in order to gain employment.
More recently, the situation seems to have reversed in my area, with economic liberals and/or social conservatives feeling constrained in regards to speech as they seek jobs in academia.
One does undergo interviews and share curriculum vitae with current academics who are seeking a good fit for their departments. Ideology may be considered to be part of this package.
 
Yes, the same way Elementary, Middle School & High School became free at some point in our Nation’s history. College degree is now a minimum requirement of most jobs. Our Nation should be able to pride itself in having a highly educated population. Higher Education free to those who qualify with their grades makes sense. Right now, those with the most money or most grants/scholarships or ability to get a line of credit are the ones who get to pursue a degree from University or College. Getting into University or College should be based on intelligence level not money.
 
whisper said:
I don’t think it should be free. I made the choice to go to college, no one forced me to go. I do think that there should be a better way to reduce student loans. I more importantly think that it needs to be more affordable not to go to college. We need more jobs that do not require a college education and that are more hands on learning, even if it means just doing a 6 month - 1 year internship in that role.
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Yes, I’d rather subsidize vocational training over free college.
Some of our vocational schools are really expensive.
 
Education is a public good that should be made accessible at least at a reasonable price.

And I agree, trade school and stuff should be appreciated more. I always try to remind my students that trade school IS education, and, it’s just as valuable as college. Moreso sometimes.
 
Theo520 said:
Why should we fund tons of history and philosophy majors that don’t have prospects for a future career in academia.
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History and philosophy, taught well, might be the two subjects sorely needed to put the USA on a better course than what we see now.
 
As someone who took a degree in philosophy, I agree. Alas, both history and philosophy aren’t marketable, but, they are important bodies of knowledge. It’s usually the people who treat college as job training that think they’re useless.

Unfortunately, most folk tend to think that way. But at least a lot of the humanities degrees are more useful as preparatory for graduate studies. Law, education, even medicine. I’m to understand Cedar Sinai has been trying to attract more humanities majors to their medical program. They see value in bringing those points of view into medical practice. Oddly enough, at graduation with my philosophy degree I qualified for law school the easiest, medical school the second easiest (I lacked 1 prereq that I could’ve done easy if I wanted to in my undergrad work) and a teaching credential the hardest.
 
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