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stpaul
Guest
Do you think it’s wrong to separate illegal border crossers adult’s and children?
Do you think it's wrong to separate illegal border crossers adult's and children?
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Maximilian75
Guest
Well, it depends on the relationship between them.
Are the two related, or was the child given to the person in order to be smuggled across the border?
Does the adult have the best intentions in mind?
Additionally, the adult may well have a criminal record. Is it just to send that child to the jail along with the adult, and expose that child to God knows what?
Are the two related, or was the child given to the person in order to be smuggled across the border?
Does the adult have the best intentions in mind?
Additionally, the adult may well have a criminal record. Is it just to send that child to the jail along with the adult, and expose that child to God knows what?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
As far as the relationship between them goes, they should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. That is, they should not be separated just because the adult might be a trafficker or kidnapper or be some other dangerous criminal. It should be no different than the criteria used to take children away from parents who are citizens. There needs to be evidence that the parents (or so-called parents) are seriously unsuitable guardians of those children. Then and only then should the children be removed from their custody.
It is wrong to remove children provisionally pending a DNA test or birth certificate or other such tests that we would not require of a US family who has been reported by the neighbors. That has too much potential of harming innocent families.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Yes, they should stay or go as a unit. I don’t have a problem with that. I see parents put children through a lot they should not be put through, and I don’t think that is just a local phenomenon. I am suspicious of the media hype on this topic. This country has a right to enforce its borders and control waves of illegal immigration; I suggest we take up the word migration for this; it is more accurate. Do we separate migrant families? No. We stop migration; we allow and regulate legal immigration of individuals and families to the extent that US resources and economic opportunity can sustain the influx. We also have asylum. I think we let in a million a year, right? Legally.
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PaulfromIowa
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Aren’t people who are arrested separated from their children every day, in every city and town?
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Theo2
Guest
I think it wrong for people to enter the US illegally? So when the get caught, what are we to do? Apparently our laws say the person or persons have a right to plea there case before a judge. I would be happy if they were turned away without due process. Then waiting for trial, what should we do with the children? There are no easy answers. It is wrong to separate families. It is wrong to incarcerate children. It is wrong to let people enter illegally.
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anon64350612
Guest
There are lots of times a person engaging in illegal activity is separated from the children who are present. Kids go into foster care or a group home when mom or dad is arrested, unless there is a relative to take them. Presumably, illegal border crossers have no relatives to take their children in at the time of arrest. US citizens who are arrested are subject to the same separation of parents and children. Who is the guilty person here, the parent who intentionally broke the law, or law enforcement? Ultimately, the separation is caused by the criminal behavior of the parent/adult illegal border crosser.
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CTBcin
Guest
I think it is a complicated situation, but in most cases, I believe it’s wrong. And, I think that public outcry by many on both sides of the political spectrum reflects that.
I’m also very uncomfortable with those who say “well, they committed a crime and that’s what happens to the children when they are arrested.”
Yes, I understand that illegal border crossing is considered a crime, but I find it unsettling to equate those who look for a better life to common criminals.
I’m also very uncomfortable with those who say “well, they committed a crime and that’s what happens to the children when they are arrested.”
Yes, I understand that illegal border crossing is considered a crime, but I find it unsettling to equate those who look for a better life to common criminals.
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
What happens to the children in the meantime if the adult is indeed a trafficker or kidnapper or other dangerous criminal, though?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
If there is evidence for that, the children will be taken from them. If there is no evidence for that, the children will remain with them. If they are dangerous criminals, but we don’t know it, the children will continue to be in danger. We do not have a duty to undertake the positive verification of the every parent/child relationship that presents itself. We don’t do it for our own citizens. Why should we do it for outsiders?LeafByNiggle:
What happens to the children in the meantime if the adult is indeed a trafficker or kidnapper or other dangerous criminal, though?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
No one disagrees with those separations - where the parent is a dangerous criminal. The debatable ones are the ones where we have nothing on them other than they crossed the border illegally.
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
With our own citizens, we are not normally in a position to have no idea whether they are parent and child. When children of citizens are removed from their parents (e.g., put in foster care), it is because the parents have shown themselves unfit to parent (neglect, abuse, etc.), not because we doubt they are the parents.
The borders are a different situation, where unfortunately traffickers are a not-so-uncommon reality.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Turning them away without due process is not a great solution, but it is better than provisionally removing the children from all illegal border crossers. If we can’t find a more humane solution, then just deport them immediately.
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CTBcin
Guest
Well, it seems like some on this forum would like to equate all illegal immigrants with violent criminals; or, if not that, then as mooches who want to “take advantage” of our economy.
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Pup7
Guest
You’re incorrect. Yes, we do question it, and yes, we do verify it.
It’s due to trafficking and kidnapping, and the status of a minor child and the adults accompanying him or her is verified every time ANYONE crosses the US border. You have to have proof that the child is yours, regardless of your nationality or the age of the child.
When you travel with a minor child that isn’t yours, you’re recommended to have documentation proving the child can be with you sans parents.
You do know that US infants are now required to have passports, right? And the parents are identified on that document? Children used to travel by endorsement on their parents’ passport. Not anymore. Now they have their own passports and documentation.
My guess is you’ve never crossed a border with a kid, or you’d know this. We deal with it all the time in the military. They can’t leave or get into the next country without documentation. So yes, it is verified for our own citizens. And everyone else should be subjected to the exact same standard.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Sure we are. We don’t ask for birth certificates. We don’t do routine DNA tests. We just assume that the nice looking family living quietly in the suburbs is a real family - unless some information comes to light to challenge that assumption. The fact that we do not afford immigrants that same presumption says a lot more about our xenophobia than it does about them.LeafByNiggle:
With our own citizens, we are not normally in a position to have no idea whether they are parent and child.
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Pup7
Guest
When you cross the border, yes, we do.
These people are crossing our border. Prove the child is yours.
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Theo2
Guest
CTBcin
What is the third category. People who break our laws? What do we do with them. Fine them $100 and let them stay? We would have millions show up.
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