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BSHoop96
Guest
He dealt with it. No married priests. Why do you assume that to be correct it has to change? Also, I would bet you that he did a good deal of praying about it.
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distracted
Guest
I tend to believe something ought to be done about the celibacy issue, but i think you are going a little far, in insulting the pope. I wish i knew more about the pope but from what i know, he is a very devout follower of Christ… and deserves our respect… and sometimes you have to be tough when dealing with certain… liberal factions in the Church… I may think that priests should not always be held to the celibacy vow but i am NOT liberal… (unless someone thinks that my beliefs about priest celibacy are liberal… but that is subjective…)…
Like what? Please give an example of what you mean…
Well, we can’t oust the pope
& from what i know about him, i wouldn’t want to if i could… but anywy, the Church is not a democracy… I know some people think it should be, think the whole world should be… but you can’t compare worldly govenrment w/ Church govenrment…I have observed in life that those who attended Catholic school usually had some scars… I feel for you… though i can’t empathize because i went to public school… which as you may know, has its own set of problems…
Anyway, are you Catholic? I don’t mean were you baptized, i mean do you believe, more or less, in what the Church teaches?
are you saying 44,000 or 4400??
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FCEGM
Guest
Fr. Benedict Groeschel has written a very fine article on the subject that you might enjoy:
catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=549
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allhers
Guest
If people would read what the Holy Father is saying they would know that not only does it know what is going on in the world and that he does deal with it. Far too many however, only watch their local news channel, which if they even mention anything he says, also many times comes with their own thoughts on what he meant and not really what he did indeed mean. Fortunately this is getting somewhat better however. Thankfully.
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allhers
Guest
I loved this last paragraph and agree with him completely, he is definately an awesome man of God!!:
“In such a climate it would be most unwise to jettison the witness of celibacy. It is a sign of dedication and self-giving. If the human race ever needed a witness that we are called to love and serve God above all things, obviously it is right now. The Pope, echoing many saints, has constantly preached to priests and religious this ideal of total service. The proposal to discontinue this powerful symbol of dedication right now is, at best, frighteningly irresponsible.”
(the climate he refers to in his first sentence is our current society.)
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distracted
Guest
please forgive me for having the audacity to disagree with a well-known priest, but i do not think Jesus ever asked us to leave our spouses and children, literally, to follow Him… (though there may be unique, rare circumstances where that may be “ethical”?? like when one spouse rejects the other or what have you…)… I belive what He meant was that we are to put family AFTER Jesus. Fr. Groeschel seems to say we should actually leave them…
I did not, admittedly, read the entire article. right now, i don’t have time… but since i didn’t like the 1st part… well… maybe later…
He does admit that people cannot (really) adhere to the celibacy vow… I know from experience that there are un-natural aspects to celibacy.
Am i sorry i am celibate? Not entirely. Though i have been celibate for many yrs… it has only been in the last 3 or 4 that i have begun to feel, somewhat strongly, that i do not want to live this way any more. Therefore, i feel that i, of all (or most ) of the posters here, am in a position to understand what priests must go throuhg… God gave everyone a sexual nature… and i believe it is wrong to thwart that nature for too many years, “forever”… Abstinance is good for sometimes even long periods of time… it is good and even necessary… but… after awhile, in some situaations, it can come to the point where… well,
“It is not good for man to be alone.”
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allhers
Guest
You need to read the whole article then. He never said it could not be lived, as a matter of fact he said he has indeed lived it his entire life. It is not abnormal either.
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distracted
Guest
He appears to be… but you how appearances can be…
and hopefully you don’t find him an 'awesome man of God" just because he agrees with your viewpoint… (I guess if he ever said something that went against your views, you would summarily consign him to the burning fires of hell
).Is it? I would say that it DEPENDS on many factors… If one is celibate and not wanting to be, totally not wanting to be, is miserable because he wants to marry… how is that self-giving?? You can’t love others unless you love yourself…
loving God above all else does not require life–long Celibacy…
Frankly, i feel this statement is irresponsible… For one thing, i don’t know of anyone who is suggesting we do away with celibacy altogether…
Hmmm… Maybe Fr. G is not capable - & never has been, of falling in love with the opposite sex??.. Who knows? But If so… that could hardly be said to be normal or good… or praise-worthy… so maybe staying in the pristhood is no big deal to him… Anyway, if that is the case (not saying it is)… that is him… Again, i say this: Why should he or anyone, make such sometimes difficult-seemingly-impossible restrictions for everyone else? And, at the risk of “shocking” anyone, i would say this: How do we know that Fr. G , or any priest for that matter… is truly CHASTE?? Just because he is a priest?? yeah, right… He is NOT God… (though i do very much respect his vocation… the office of the priesthood… )… I hope he is and chances are he is… but chastity is not easy… True, it is not impossible because i myself am chaste… but that doesn’t mean i am never tempted… (etc)…
Let’s forget Fr. G for now… What about anyone living alone for long periods of time… It is human nature to seek to gratify one’s sexual desires… You out there who are married have this need met… & more or lesss don’t have to worry about that…
Frankly, i do not feel that the un-celibate (long-term) necessarily have much to say on the subject…
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distracted
Guest
frankly, i feel i don’t really need to read the rest of it… I get the gist of it… and have heard similar things all my life…
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distracted
Guest
i have seen much waste of money in the Church…
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distracted
Guest
this brings up something interesting… I think if priests were allowed to marry, their wives should also take a vow of poverty and i don’t think their income should be much higher than it is now… I think what is wrong with this country is that people always want to live in luxury… can’t live without this or that…
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distracted
Guest
Maybe knowing this kind of stuff will make us love Jesus more and focus less on “human goodness.” (no such thing… without Him)
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distracted
Guest
i hate to sound rude but it would appear you are the one in a fantasy world if you cannot accept the stains and blemishes in our Church history… and God knows there are plenty of them…
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FCEGM
Guest
Yes, he does, and we see the Twelve actually did this when they left their families to follow Our Lord and so were living with and like Him. Moreover, the Apostolic Offices of the Twelve was the highest office of the Church, which the Episcopal offices comes closest to but not equal to. The continence required of bishops followed the Twelve’s vocation to live totally for the Kingdom, as Our Lord says in Matthew 19 that some are eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom.
The Church has always allowed couples who had no responsibilities towards offspring or others to mutually separate and enter religious life. In the first period of the Church when spirituality was higher than later (first 300 years) this was not so unusual and the Church following the practice of the Apostles as well as their example chose priests and deacons from among these spiritually mature elders, who though not separating from their wives who needed their financial and social support before such things as monasteries, lived like brothers and sisters with regard to sex. A great example of this in the West is St. Nicholas of Flue: after a prolific marriage, he and his wife spent the last 20 years in continence and he was blessed with prophecy and even living only on the Eucharist (15th century, I believe).
From the subjective pov, it only matters that we cooperate with what God wants for us personally, but it is always good to consider objectively how God has arranged the whole series of vocations or how our subjective vocation would fit into that; in fact, it is a reason to marvel and praise God for His plan in arranging the destinies of angels and men and it is a mark of humility to appreciate that.
It is not for nothing that the Blessed Virgin is a virgin, even in partu, as well as before and after, and she is the type of the Church to come, where there is no marrying nor giving in marriage, the Kingdom on High already witnessed to on earth. Consecrated celibacy is held to be a higher state than sacramental marriage which is for this world only. In marriage all is shared, including bodily nature for the sake of children and spiritual union. But the time comes when spiritual union between spouses no longer needs to be built up by sexual union, because the spouses have actually become one. Then just a look is sufficient. No surprise that in the Church, East and West, in the past devout couples reaching such spiritual maturity by middle age decide mutually to enter monastic life; there are countless couples who have done this.
What was only for a short time when they were young (separating for prayer) became more and more usual when they matured and their children were raised. They had more and more of an impulse to prayer and union with God, and this naturally led to a cessation of sexual relations. Though this is rarer now, it still happens; in fact it is the direction of a spirit-filled marriage, the contemplative dimension that takes over and supernaturalizes even the marriage covenant in the mystical life.
The present crisis in vocations is due to lack of faith and piety among the Catholic population; the solution to the vocation problem is evident in those dioceses where the traditional faith and piety is practiced rather faithfully, e.g., Lincoln, Neb., Alexandria, VA., Peoria, IL.
So, it is a question of lowering the standards of priestly life and sacrifice, a spiritual issue rather than a doctrinal one. The East did that with significant provisos for deacons and priests – but NOT for bishops. But, the East has a greater monastic witness in the local Church than the West does.
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distracted
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why do you assume that i assume?
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distracted
Guest
i heard that Peter’s wife followed him and also, i don’t know they had any young children…
She was immaculately conceived… without original sin… and she was a virgin, in large part because it had to be indisputable that God was Jesus’ father… not a human being…
but we have bodies in this world… What happens in Heaven is a different matter…
that is not true. The Church does not teach that one is superior to the other. The one that is superior for one person is the one that he/she is called to…
which sometimes stems from a lack of piety with priests…
and where people stop watching television??
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allhers
Guest
(also from that same article you refuse to read distracted)
Let’s tell the truth. Any kind of sexual behavior (and celibacy is a form of sexual behavior) can be done badly. Some kinds of sexual behavior are always done badly, like promiscuity, rape, and pedophilia. Some sexual behaviors are inherently immature and pathological. Celibacy, its critics notwithstanding, is not one of these. I have been celibate all my life (I knew when I was eight years old that I was called to be a priest). Those who denounce celibacy as immature or perverse or manipulation by ecclesiastical authority I accuse of ignorance, ill will, or perversity. Period! I welcome the opportunity to take the saner people with this position on in public debate. (my bold)
A different objection to priestly and religious celibacy is that it should not be mandatory. This objection does not necessarily imply that celibacy is a sick adjustment. Having grown up in an area that had married Catholic priests of the Eastern Rite, and having prepared married former Protestant clergy for ordination to the Catholic priesthood, I can cope with the thought that clerical celibacy need not be universal in the Church. It goes without saying that celibacy is an anthropological necessity for religious life, but the question is, should the Church change the rules for diocesan clergy now? An army of Catholic saints and authorities from at least the past 1,600 years says “no.” Many of them lived through times when celibacy was not doing well, and when they were trying to reform the clergy. Powerful theological and spiritual reasons for the celibacy of priests have been given in ages when celibacy was attacked…
(What amazes me is how people take a couple of sentences out of a article and then try to say what someone else was saying when they didn’t read the complete thing to begin with.)
Let’s tell the truth. Any kind of sexual behavior (and celibacy is a form of sexual behavior) can be done badly. Some kinds of sexual behavior are always done badly, like promiscuity, rape, and pedophilia. Some sexual behaviors are inherently immature and pathological. Celibacy, its critics notwithstanding, is not one of these. I have been celibate all my life (I knew when I was eight years old that I was called to be a priest). Those who denounce celibacy as immature or perverse or manipulation by ecclesiastical authority I accuse of ignorance, ill will, or perversity. Period! I welcome the opportunity to take the saner people with this position on in public debate. (my bold)
A different objection to priestly and religious celibacy is that it should not be mandatory. This objection does not necessarily imply that celibacy is a sick adjustment. Having grown up in an area that had married Catholic priests of the Eastern Rite, and having prepared married former Protestant clergy for ordination to the Catholic priesthood, I can cope with the thought that clerical celibacy need not be universal in the Church. It goes without saying that celibacy is an anthropological necessity for religious life, but the question is, should the Church change the rules for diocesan clergy now? An army of Catholic saints and authorities from at least the past 1,600 years says “no.” Many of them lived through times when celibacy was not doing well, and when they were trying to reform the clergy. Powerful theological and spiritual reasons for the celibacy of priests have been given in ages when celibacy was attacked…
(What amazes me is how people take a couple of sentences out of a article and then try to say what someone else was saying when they didn’t read the complete thing to begin with.)
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allhers
Guest
Another thing you may want to re-read distracted is your own posting (# 3 is a good example) that you yourself posted in another thread. What happened to this attitude of yours?? (your words-'I think you should celebrate your virginity… and being alone is good because you can get closer to Jesus"…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3765610#post3765610
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3765610#post3765610
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Cathdefender
Guest
Oh, you are a Catholic? If so, then you’d know that man is human therefore they make human mistakes. Point being here is, no matter what happens, our church is still standing. Why do people only think stuff happens in the CC? I don’t get it?
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Yerusalyim
Guest
Some believe John was celibate, but both scripture and history are silent on this issue. The linkage being not CELIBACY of the priesthood, but that since Mary was a Virgin, Christ gave her to John, a Virgin.
I think it’s more telling that Jesus gave leadership of the Church to a Married Man whose wife traveled with him and who tradition hold witnessed the matyrdom of his wife before his own martyrdom.
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