Do you think priests should be allowed to marry?

[rinnie]

I believe that totally, but he is also a human being. And also… you probably did not intent to imply this, but it is almost as if you are implying that if a man is married, he can’t be so led by the Holy Spriit (as one who is celibate)…

yes, but, for one thing, the pope is only infallible under certain conditiions… and if he doesn’t apply himself to a particular issue (should i do something about this priest celibacy issue), then nothing will change… Maybe in not deciding to deal with the issue, he is being all to human? I mean, after all, he himself cannot ever marry, so maybe he feels tht others should be as he is? Nothing wrong with that… but again, he is human… and there may be some psychological reason or what have you that keeps him from even addressing the subject in the 1st place…

. I tend not to question him much either… but after all i have been through, i find it is expedient to Question Everything… (just don’t necessarily question [whtever] to death…)

Distracted he did address the celibacy issue, he said no if you are Roman Catholic you cannot marry, I know people dont agree with it, and that is fine, but the bottom line is the Pope said Nope. If he would change it trust me we would all know… He is human correct, but he still has God to guide him. THink about it dont you think he prays to God in every decision. And if we believe that when we pray to God to guide us and give us the right decisions, dont you think God listens to his prayers too. Remember Job, God listens to the rightious. Now i may not be, and im not saying he always listens to me, because i have a ways to go, but the Pope id say hes safe.

 

[distracted]

I…I wanted to acknowledge the pain and difficulty of such a situation.

well, at least you acknowledge that i am a human being and capable of FEELINGS…

but don’t worry - you’ll get over it… everyone else does…

Yes, bitter, as in cynical.

.

cynical, yes, i have no problem admitting to that… I am nothing if not cynical…

but then, i probably shouldn’t be… to be cynical is to say that something is importnat… What i mean is that i shouldn’t be cynical because people are disrespectful because, well, that’s their choice…

and i really AM sorry for returning “rude-ness” for rude-ness… although i thought it was more humor than sarcasm…

you no takey thata way?? so sorry…

 

[Pier]

Yeah, but Anglican Priests can be married, convert over to Catholicism and keep their wives.

Matthew 19:12, doesn’t forbid anything…I just don’t quite get why Priests could marry for the first few hundred years and then suddenly couldn’t.

I’ve never spent much time thinking about this…but it is a bit of a puzzle.

From what I understand, it has always been that priests (once ordained) have not been allowed to marry…

This is how it is. Obedience to Christ’s Church and the men he left in charge to hold bound or let loose is part of our religion. If it’s too tough, then don’t do it - Jesus Himself said, “Let him accept this teaching who can.”

 

[estesbob]

Which brings me to ask this question, if God said he would forgive 70X7, aren’t our numbers up considering that equals out to just 490 times? I am way over due.

On the serious side Ibleive that 70 times 7 meant always.

 

[Pug]

for one thing, i am not “obviously” struggling with anything… I sometimes struggle… I am not obsessed with losing celibacy every day, every minute of the day… In fact, now that i think about it, i hardly struggle at all anymore. I’ve gotten used to it… but there are times when… (sigh)… Long Story!!! I don’t have time or inclination to get into it… but in any case, i am not “struggling” as much as some may think… U can get used to anything…

Perhaps a priest who dislikes celibacy can come to feel as you do, that it is hardly a struggle anymore. My experience with chastity is similar, but only after grace. (I assume God was shouting at me to take the grace for quite some time, I just wasn’t listening much.)

When I think of men and women who find themselves divorced/abandoned from a valid marriage, I can see that they are stuck forever (unless their spouse dies). I imagine this is very hard, but that God would provide the grace for that situation. How could he not? Chastity issues are mortal, and the Church teaches that God does provide his children with the graces to stay out of mortal sin.

And you still come across as presumptous because you don’t know how mnay priests are “struggling” and how many are not… the only reason i tend to think that many of them are (define “many”)… is because i know what its like to have to say No to my desires 24/7… 365… for a long, long time. Thats all…

Honestly, I tend to think most aren’t struggling 24/7 with the desire to marry, at least those who came from good formation and seminaries. I’d think that they would be more likely to struggle often with the urge to break chastity. But I am an American, and probably influenced by our crazed culture, and I know so many people with basic chastity issues.

Very true. But even so, when married people have periods of continence, we still have the other person in our lives. It IS a big difference. Continence is not the same as celibacy.

Many “married” people do not have the other person in their lives. This is the sad fate of many in America, anyway. Maybe they all get annulments? Some can’t, though. I agree that continence in a functioning marriage is different from celibacy. That’s part of why I asked earlier what the issue really was. What part of it is thwarting, etc.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I would like to know if you think priests should be allowed to marry and still stay in the priesthood… If so, Why or why not??

Why not ? It’s a discipline, not a doctrine; still less a dogma. Though I don’t think it would make sense to require marriage after ordination, rather than before: or the other about - the order of events is less important than that both take place.​

To treat the issue of clerical marriage as though the refusal of it were an unchangeable dogma, seems strange - why all the fuss, if it is not a dogma ? Since the Church has no control over what the future may bring, there may come a time when, for all its sign-value, the present discipline may need to adapt to circumstances: there is not much point in the symbolism of priestly celibacy, if the practical cost of keeping the discipline for the sake of the symbolism comes to be that there are hardly any priests. So it would be most regrettable if the Church were to make a decision - either way - so binding that it could not retreat from it.

 

[mercygate]

i have heard of some.

Well, then i will hold you to absolutely everything you said while in your 20s…

I said “I do.” I did. and I do. Notwithstanding vicissitudes that might have been considered extenuating by some.

 

[mercygate]

I wasn’t going to bring this up…but you’ve invited it. I’ve heard a theory floated that the Church not allowing priests to marry was a way to protect their assets and property from falling into the hands of the wives once the Priests passed on.

The point you raise…does make sense. Is this a form of protection and that is all? Or is it rooted Biblically. Weren’t Priests allowed to marry for the first three centuries…why the change?

OTP, this has been covered fully elsewhere.
Suffice it to say here that there is PLENTY of biblical warrant for choosing celibacy over marriage – not only for clergy but for anybody who wishes to follow Christ. But this thread (or the other thread that asks whether priests should be allowed to marry AFTER ordination) has already dealt with it extensively.

 

[Cathdefender]

distracted, are you over the age of 21? Like I said before, why AS A WOMAN, would you be so interested in the priestly lives of men??

 

[mercygate]

Yeah, but Anglican Priests can be married, convert over to Catholicism and keep their wives.

Matthew 19:12, doesn’t forbid anything…I just don’t quite get why Priests could marry for the first few hundred years and then suddenly couldn’t.

I’ve never spent much time thinking about this…but it is a bit of a puzzle.

Priests could NEVER marry. A married man “could” be ordained – consistent with the practice of the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches today.

The tradition of celibacy did not suddenly appear in the 4th century. It was there all along in parallel with marriage. Gradually the norm became celibacy. Abuses brought the final decision to make exclude marriage from the equation.

Question: If having married clergy was such a great idea for so long, why would the Church change the discipline?

THINK ABOUT IT!

 

[Stratiotes]

It is a hot topic and an interesting discussion. But, ultimately, it does not matter what I think - it matters only what the church teaches. As with everything else, I am not my own judge of what is orthodox and what is not. If I were, I would not have ceased to be Protestant .

 

[rinnie]

It is a hot topic and an interesting discussion. But, ultimately, it does not matter what I think - it matters only what the church teaches. As with everything else, I am not my own judge of what is orthodox and what is not. If I were, I would not have ceased to be Protestant .

I agree with what you said, its not up to us, its up to the Church. I understand like you the topic is a good debate, to see what others feel i guess, but myself I feel that the Church laws are the Church laws.and there is a reason. I am sure if God wanted Roman Catholic Priests to have a family and be married they would. But I guess my comment after reading all the responses is this. If a Priest was to marry, and have a family, again he would not give total devotion to God. ITs impossible, now you cant tell me that other priests who marry do, and can, its impossible. When a Priest takes that oath he says I am here and here for one reason, For GOd, he gives his heart, soul, and earthly life to one thing and one thing only doing the work of Jesus Christ. So to say should priests be allowed to marry i say no. because they took that vow to Jesus Christ. and they must keep it. Just like i took that vow to Jesus to marry my husband, i must keep it. Now i was 19, its been 27 years, but i still promised God. Just like the priest does, i knew what i was getting into so did they. If that vow wasnt necessary there would not be the sacraments, Holy Orders is a sacrament, just like Marriage, Now as long as Holy Orders has been around, so has that vow. Back in the old days men could have other wives too, im sure, but like everything else Jesus laid laws, and the law of the RCC we must obey.

 

[distracted]

From what I understand, it has always been that priests (once ordained) have not been allowed to marry…

This is how it is. ."

Not true… and you obviously haven’t been readin the other posts (or don’t believe them?)…

Priests used to be able to be married… in the early yrs of the Church… and they can still be married if the Church changes things because celibacy is a discipline, not a doctrine.

 

[distracted]

You are absolutely bizarre.

gee, that’s the nicest thing anyone has said to me all day…

. In an earlier thread you said you haven’t said why you were celibrate

Wha? huh>?? I need a reason for why i am celibate?? Ok… but you are wrong because i did give a reason anyway… Can’t recall here or some other thread, though… Reason Number One: No man is good enough for me…

{Notice no laughing icon … cause not joking…

nd you weren’t going to because we obviously hadn’t cared enough to ask,

I already know human beings don’t care about me or anyone else… So, no, you are wrong here… I didn’t want anyone to ask… prefer to keep many things to myself…

anyway… what can i say?? God bless… (is all)…

 

[distracted]

Pope said Nope. If he would change it trust me we would all know… he still has God to guide him. THink about it dont you think he prays to God in every decision.

Every Christian prays… and all Christians who truly love & follow Jesus are guided by the Holy Spirit…

And if we believe that when we pray to God to guide us and give us the right decisions, dont you think God listens to his prayers too.

God listens… The pope doesn’t… he has too many importnat things to do to listen to a loser like me… I know - i wrote to him once - never heard Word One back…

Remember Job, God listens to the rightious. Now i may not be, and im not saying he always listens to me, because i have a ways to go, but the Pope id say hes safe.

The pope is possibly no more righteous than you are. Give me a break… He is a human being just like you and God is no respecter of persons (says that in His Word).

 

[mercygate]

Not true… and you obviously haven’t been readin the other posts (or don’t believe them?)…

Priests used to be able to be married… in the early yrs of the Church… and they can still be married if the Church changes things because celibacy is a discipline, not a doctrine.

Um. No. Married men could be ordained. Men who were ordained while single could not marry afterwards.

Have you documentation indicating the contrary?

 

[distracted]

To treat the issue of clerical marriage as though the refusal of it were an unchangeable dogma, seems strange -

NO kidding!!

if the practical cost of keeping the discipline for the sake of the symbolism comes to be that there are hardly any priests.

maybe i deleted too much, but uh… this is (now ) an incomplete sentence. Could you please explain what you meant??

So it would be most regrettable if the Church were to make a decision - either way - so binding that it could not retreat from it.

I wonder if the only reason the pope doesn’t want to deal with it (change his mind…) is because it would be such a big change in the lives of many priests… he just doesn’t want to deal with all that… It’s possible… He’s no spring chicken, you know… When i am stressed out, i kinda shut down, so maybe he does too. Who knows? For now, i have to accept what he has chosen to not do… and i accede that he knows more about the Church than i do… I have a choice to accept what he does or not… I have difficulty accepting this… but it is not impossible… and being married isn’t all its cracked up to be anyway, i am sure, though i have never been married…
Anyway… women live longer when they are not married… which proves (if only to me and a few others) that men stress women out too much… (Stress kills…)…
I have never known a man who didn’t stress me out… one way or the other… Jesus is the only One who… well, He can be “hard” on my… weaknesses or whatever, but, at the same time He is “the tough taskmaster” …He also helps me, instead of what human men have done to me… Frankly, none of them has ever done one thing for me… except make my life worse…
The more i think about it, the more i think the pope is right… We Americans are too worldly (this-wordly) anyway… and marriage is a thing of this world… We need to focus more on what this life is all about… not how we want to make our lives in this world better… or how we THINK we are going to make it better… Our notion of “better” and God’s are two different things most of the time…

 

[distracted]

. I am sure if God wanted Roman Catholic Priests to have a family and be married they would.

i don’t believe that is necessarily true… I believe that SOME priests, in (possibly rare) situations (?) ARE called to marriage… the thing i have a problem with is that the Church hierarchy seems to want for all priests what it (admittedly) knows is best for ( most?)… A virgin priest, in my opinion, should not lose his virginity - & i thikn that in 99% of cases, he is better off not leaving the priesthood to get married… Of course, if he is madly in love with some woman, he may think differnetly… but anyway, then there are priests who are, say, misogynists… (met several i suspect of this). They shouldn’t marry either. i believe there are a few who should leave the priesthood and get married… (or if the Church changes… )…
In fact, i wouldn’t even say Maybe… but i am mostly concenred for priests who feel they just don’t want to be alone anymore and don’t want to stay celibate… They exist… Rare? who knows?
Again, i know the pope knows more about the Church (etc) than i do… Even so, i know that things have been revealed to me also… and God (no respecter of persons) can speak to me & other humans as well as to the pope…

,. If a Priest was to marry, and have a family, again he would not give total devotion to God. ITs impossible, now you cant tell me that other priests who marry do, and can, its impossible.

It would not be impossible if the woman he married was just as devoted to Jesus as he (or more?)… and God does not expect for all human beings to spend 99% of their time in prayer / meditation / etc… There are many other things God wants people to do… No pope can know what God wants for every single one of the millions and millions of people on the planet… Only God knows such a thing…

When a Priest takes that oath he says I am here and here for one reason, For GOd, he gives his heart, soul, and earthly life to one thing and one thing only doing the work of Jesus Christ.

There is this (to me) weird thing going on… It seems i am being sent a conflicting message: On the one hand, people (Catholic or not) never blame the man when he is “seduced” by a woman… or falls into some sexual sin… In other words, “men are just like that” but there are many many names for women who are not “chaste”… So… men are animals and cannot control themselves … and yet when he becomes ordained, all of the sudden, he is God… He can not only suddenly control himself in every tempting situation… he can keep his vows perfectly till the end of his life, no self-gratifying, no nothing…

Just like i took that vow to Jesus to marry my husband, i must keep it

. I don’t like comparing priestly vows to marriage… The pope doesn’t grant any dispensation for you to get out of your marriage… Nulification is not the same as a dispensation…

Just like the priest does, i knew what i was getting into so did they.

Isn’t it interesting that most of the people here (if not all) who are in favor of a priest’s remaining celibate are not themselves celibate… Walk a mile or two in a celibate person’s shoes before you go saying whether someone should adhere to that practice or not…

 

[distracted]

distracted, are you over the age of 21? Like I said before, why AS A WOMAN, would you be so interested in the priestly lives of men??

there are actually many reasons… but i would prefer to keep that info and a lot of other info to myself… I don’t like divulging things to rude people and there are plenty of those on this forum… I am sure you do not like sharing certain things with rude people yourself…

 

[distracted]

Um. No. Married men could be ordained. Men who were ordained while single could not marry afterwards.

Have you documentation indicating the contrary?

i have read history books on the Church… I do not recall the names or authors off the top of my head… Priests were allowed to be married up until at least the 11th century… I have been told that it changed because parishioners preferred to go to single, celibate priests… but, as per usual, there is probably more to it than that…

I wasn’t there… we have to trust historians.