Do you think priests should be allowed to marry?

[bilop]

i have read history books on the Church… I do not recall the names or authors off the top of my head… Priests were allowed to be married up until at least the 11th century… I have been told that it changed because parishioners preferred to go to single, celibate priests… but, as per usual, there is probably more to it than that…

I wasn’t there… we have to trust historians.

No that’s wrong.

Married men were ORDAINED in the West up until the Middle Ages (atlthough celibacy was preferred). The East has always ordained married men.

Once ordained, a priest has never been allowed to marry.

Please stop spreading this falsehood.

God Bless

 

[mercygate]

i have read history books on the Church… I do not recall the names or authors off the top of my head… Priests were allowed to be married up until at least the 11th century… I have been told that it changed because parishioners preferred to go to single, celibate priests… but, as per usual, there is probably more to it than that…

I wasn’t there… we have to trust historians.

Married men were allowed to receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders. In the Latin Church this was not normative but via either permission or abuse.

I have never heard the allegation that parishoners preferred single priests as an argument for celibacy.

If you are going to claim “history” as your support, then it behooves you to provide that history to the rest of us idiots. And not the spurious claims of people like the rent-a-priest “father” Shuster.

 

[jmcrae]

Not true… and you obviously haven’t been readin the other posts (or don’t believe them?)…

Priests used to be able to be married… in the early yrs of the Church… and they can still be married if the Church changes things because celibacy is a discipline, not a doctrine.

No, they could not. Married men at one time could become priests (and they were not allowed to have sex with their wives after taking the vows of ordination, but they were allowed to have their wives and children live with them) - but no priest has ever been allowed to get married after being ordained to the priesthood - not in the West, and not in the East - not ever.

 

[bilop]

No, they could not. Married men at one time could become priests (and they were not allowed to have sex with their wives after taking the vows of ordination, but they were allowed to have their wives and children live with them) - but no priest has ever been allowed to get married after being ordained to the priesthood - not in the West, and not in the East - not ever.

One correction, married men have always been ordained in the Eastern Church (Catholic and Orthodox) and have sometimes been ordained in the West (including converts recently). For most of history, they have been, and are allowed to continue marital relations.

The celebacy within marriage was only true in the Early Church.

Married priests today (East and West) are allowed to have a normal marital life.

God Bless

 

[distracted]

I have never heard the allegation that parishoners preferred single priests as an argument for celibacy.

so that means its invalid? because you have not heard of it.>?

If you are going to claim “history” as your support, then it behooves you to provide that history to the rest of us idiots.

I don’t feel “behooved” today… Maybe tomorrow… or maybe next year… but “behooving” isn’t on my To Do List for today…

 

[FCEGM]

. Consecrated celibacy is held to be a higher state than sacramental marriage

St. Bernard commenting on the Rule of St. Benedict taught that ordinary humility required being obedient and deferent to one’s superior and equal to one’s peers. In the Church the priestly office places its members in a qualitatively superior position to the laity with superior powers and authority over the laity, meant for a greater service towards them, thus having a superior dignity. To recognize that the clerical state of ordination gives the recipient of it a greater dignity which is to be publicly recognized does not mean either clericalism or a diminution of the mission to serve. This mission to serve is ordered primarily to offering the Eucharistic Sacrifice and the other Sacraments, especially the forgiving of sins, as well as teaching the truth faith and guiding the faithful in attaining virtue and sanctify of life. It is primarily the laity’s privilege to sanctify all human life and bring faith and virtue into it, indeed into the whole world.

I’m reminded of of the difficulty many Protestants have in appreciating not only the hierarchy of the Church, but also the hierarchy within the Communion of Saints - more specifically their seeing the Most Blessed Virgin Mary as just one of their equals in Christ. Some, even Catholics now, can’t seem to fathom that, yes, there are those who have a higher calling in this life - and the next. Again, that’s not to say that an extremely high degree of holiness in conformation to Christ isn’t available to the humblest peasant a la St. Juan Diego who was never a priest, yet enjoyed the company of the Virgin…

Receiving the sacrament of Holy Orders makes a priest a “representative of Christ” (CCC 1581), confers an "indelible spiritual character " on him (CCC 1582) which “marks him permanently” (CCC 1583). The priest, by virtue of this sacrament, “acts in persona Christ Capitis. ‘It is the same priest, Christ Jesus, whose sacred person his minister truly respresents. Now the minister, by reason of the sacerdotal consecration which he has received, is truly made like to the high priest and possesses the authority to act in the power and place of the person of Christ himself…’” (CCC 1548)

There is, of course, a complementarity between priests and laity as our late Holy Father John Paul II expressed here::

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2ANTIL.HTM

the solution to the vocation problem is evident in those dioceses where the traditional faith and piety is practiced rather faithfully, e.g., Lincoln, Neb., Alexandria, VA., Peoria, IL.

and where people stop watching television??

A flippant attitude never allows one to come to deep faith since it stays on the surface of things.

 

[rinnie]

Distracted you are not a loser you are a good person, I just dont agree with you on this issue, and i do believe that the Pope is a better person than me, yes i do. I believe that he has the gift of the Holy Spirit, and I believe God is leading him. And i choose to stay in the law with my church because Jesus told me to do so. But we all have our views. I appreciate yours, just mine our different is all.

 

[mercygate]

so that means its invalid? because you have not heard of it.>?
I don’t feel “behooved” today… Maybe tomorrow… or maybe next year… but “behooving” isn’t on my To Do List for today…

I am not unfamiliar with the history of clerical celibacy and have never encountered the claim that an ordained person could marry after ordination.

If you are not prepared to support your claims, then it behooves me to presume them null until demonstrated otherwise.

 

[multitude]

I used to think, why not. People may sometimes just don’t want to go to confession simply because priests hear so many of them that they just wouldn’t care about their problems and they start acting grumpy. Wouldn’t it be nicer if they had a wive and kids?

Then I thought, why yes? Coz Jesus did say, let those who are able to be eunuchs, be eunuchs. And aren’t priests-to-be constantly warned of this very grave vow they are to take? They know exactly what they are signing up for, and of their free will.

As a red-blooded guy, I think that takes a ton of faith and strength. I think we should use our energy to pray for those who choose to take this path, rather than expending our energy elsewhere questioning and protesting against this rule. (One of the reasons why I’m no longer a Protestant ) The relationship runs two-fold after all, priests need us supportive laymen backing them.

 

[allhers]

i don’t believe that is necessarily true… I believe that SOME priests, in (possibly rare) situations (?) ARE called to marriage… the thing i have a problem with is that the Church hierarchy seems to want for all priests what it (admittedly) knows is best for ( most?)… A virgin priest, in my opinion, should not lose his virginity - & i thikn that in 99% of cases, he is better off not leaving the priesthood to get married… Of course, if he is madly in love with some woman, he may think differnetly… but anyway, then there are priests who are, say, misogynists… (met several i suspect of this). They shouldn’t marry either. i believe there are a few who should leave the priesthood and get married… (or if the Church changes… )…
In fact, i wouldn’t even say Maybe… but i am mostly concenred for priests who feel they just don’t want to be alone anymore and don’t want to stay celibate… They exist… Rare? who knows?
Again, i know the pope knows more about the Church (etc) than i do… Even so, i know that things have been revealed to me also… and God (no respecter of persons) can speak to me & other humans as well as to the pope…
It would not be impossible if the woman he married was just as devoted to Jesus as he (or more?)… and God does not expect for all human beings to spend 99% of their time in prayer / meditation / etc… There are many other things God wants people to do… No pope can know what God wants for every single one of the millions and millions of people on the planet… Only God knows such a thing…

There is this (to me) weird thing going on… It seems i am being sent a conflicting message: On the one hand, people (Catholic or not) never blame the man when he is “seduced” by a woman… or falls into some sexual sin… In other words, “men are just like that” but there are many many names for women who are not “chaste”… So… men are animals and cannot control themselves … and yet when he becomes ordained, all of the sudden, he is God… He can not only suddenly control himself in every tempting situation… he can keep his vows perfectly till the end of his life, no self-gratifying, no nothing…
. I don’t like comparing priestly vows to marriage… The pope doesn’t grant any dispensation for you to get out of your marriage… Nulification is not the same as a dispensation…

Isn’t it interesting that most of the people here (if not all) who are in favor of a priest’s remaining celibate are not themselves celibate… Walk a mile or two in a celibate person’s shoes before you go saying whether someone should adhere to that practice or not…

The part I bolded above is the part that I want to speak to
You probably understand what discernment is right?
From what you have said in past posts and in other threads it does sound like you go to Mass often, perhaps daily, spend time before the Blessed Sacrament and pray.
Now, since you do these things, you do realize that a life of prayer is very important for a Priest too, right? Perhaps, if while discerning if something is from God, from yourself or from the evil one (which is what discernment in prayer is.) …and since you said that God can speak just as well to you as to the Pope and other’s, well, I would say that perhaps it isn’t God who is speaking to you since you want to go against what the Church is currently saying. Just something to think about. Afterall, I have no idea what all is going on in your life, just what you have posted, but…it just seems to me that maybe, just maybe, you need further discernment here and in light of Church teachings which will bring you to a right conscience.
Please don’t think I am trying to force anything on you, just know that if a Priest has already taken vows and given his life to God that he is off limits and both he and other’s ought to respect that.

 

[mercygate]

I used to think, why not. People may sometimes just don’t want to go to confession simply because priests hear so many of them that they just wouldn’t care about their problems and they start acting grumpy. Wouldn’t it be nicer if they had a wive and kids?

Then I thought, why yes? Coz Jesus did say, let those who are able to be eunuchs, be eunuchs. And aren’t priests-to-be constantly warned of this very grave vow they are to take? They know exactly what they are signing up for, and of their free will.

As a red-blooded guy, I think that takes a ton of faith and strength. I think we should use our energy to pray for those who choose to take this path, rather than expending our energy elsewhere questioning and protesting against this rule. (One of the reasons why I’m no longer a Protestant ) The relationship runs two-fold after all, priests need us supportive laymen backing them.

I have a close friend, who is a priest and because of a certain facet of our relationship, he confides things to me that he would not share with the general public. This good priest has fought for his chastity every day of his relgious life – nearly 50 years. But would not trade a second of it for anything.

Both of us have confided to one another that we take courage from the witness each of us makes – his in celibacy and mine as a married woman. My marriage is affirmed by his celibacy, and he volunteered that he felt his chastity affirmed by my marriage.

Yes: both witnesses strengthen each other!

 

[multitude]

I have a close friend, who is a priest and because of a certain facet of our relationship, he confides things to me that he would not share with the general public. This good priest has fought for his chastity every day of his relgious life – nearly 50 years. But would not trade a second of it for anything.

Both of us have confided to one another that we take courage from the witness each of us makes – his in celibacy and mine as a married woman. My marriage is affirmed by his celibacy, and he volunteered that he felt his chastity affirmed by my marriage.

Yes: both witnesses strengthen each other!

Glad to know I wasn’t just blowing steam and it does work. I’ll pray for you and your friend!

 

[marksbaird0211]

apparently it does with some people… those who have not been celibate for long periods of time… and don’t know what the heck it all entails…

The virtue of Celibacy is difficult to explain as it has little to do with abstaining from sex or marriage but alot more to do with being conscrated to God alone, married to the Church so to speak. The bride of Christ. With all the temptations in the world it is good to glory in our infirmities so the power of Christ may dwell in me.

 

[rinnie]

Distracted you must realize that yes this is very difficult especially for us to understand, but you must also see that when Jesus calls these Priest to this special service, he gives them the gift of the Holy SPirit. As the bible tells us we are not all called to receive that gift, only certain teachers. Thats is why we cant define scripture we dont have that gift, the bible itself tells us that. God gives them the strength, we dont have that strength because we are not called to special Priesthood. If we were we would understand it more. We dont pick God,. God picks us. He is the one who goes to these PRiests, They get the call. see what i mean.

 

[BSHoop96]

The virtue of Celibacy is difficult to explain as it has little to do with abstaining from sex or marriage but alot more to do with being conscrated to God alone, married to the Church so to speak. The bride of Christ.

Exactly…and some on here aren’t grasping that we/they are looking at it and/or experiencing it from a totally different perspective than that of a priest. They are armed with different weapons, so to speak. Realizing of course that does not mean it’s still not a struggle.

 

[mercygate]

Exactly…and some on here aren’t grasping that we/they are looking at it and/or experiencing it from a totally different perspective than that of a priest. They are armed with different weapons, so to speak. Realizing of course that does not mean it’s still not a struggle.

Well, what would be the point if it were *EASY? *

 

[distracted]

. In the Church the priestly office places its members in a qualitatively superior position to the laity with superior powers and authority over the laity,

are these your words??

having a superior dignity.

Sorry, but i don’t agree with this… If it is taken from some Church document, i will read the whole thing, and go from there, but other than that… I am not buying it that the Church teaches this…

Yes, the office of the priesthood has charisms and powers that are not available to “ordinary” persons, but a priest is not superior to any other human being in any other way…

to recognize that the clerical state of ordination gives the recipient of it a greater dignity .

The Bible says - and my conscience tells me quite clearly - that God is no respecter of persons.

 

[distracted]

Distracted you are not a loser you are a good person,

I am only a loser if i end up in Hell… and i am a somewhat lesser loser if i end up in Purgatory… but i am already there…

Anyway…

I i do believe that the Pope is a better person than me, yes i do.

He’s not… and he would probably be the 1st to tell you that… He may be further along in his Purgatory or whatever u call it, but he is not better than you… God created us all equal… and He loves each of us the same… As one peson once said, “God loves you as if you were His only child.”

I believe that he has the gift of the Holy Spirit,

So do you. And you speak infallibly also, sometimes… (like when you said that i am a good person. ).

 

[distracted]

The virtue of Celibacy is difficult to explain as it has little to do with abstaining from sex or marriage

Little to do with???!!!

Ok, now i am convinced you have never been celibate very long…

more to do with being conscrated to God alone, married to the Church so to speak.

I agree with THIS.

 

[distracted]

I
If you are not prepared to support your claims, then it behooves me to presume them null until demonstrated otherwise.

you can presume and behoove all you want… Its a free country, no??