Do you think the rich man was in purgatory? (Luke 16)

[James248]

Not Catholic Teaching. Where did you get this idea?

True. But not the question at hand.

Correct. But not the point. The verse speaks of ways to get to heaven. There is a narrow gate and a wide gate. Most people claim that the wide gate goes to eternal punishment. But that would mean that most men are so evil that even God can’t purify them in purgatory.

Jesus is speaking of two gates. Is it two gates to heaven? Or two gates into the after life? If it is two gates into eternal life, why does Jesus, according to your interpretation, leave Purgatory out of the picture?

And are more people going into eternal destruction than are going into purgatory? Really? Do you believe that the vast majority of people deserve eternal punishment?

As we know, there is only ONE way to Heaven: Jesus. Every other road leads to hell.

Luke makes it clear Jesus means Hell;

23“Lord,” someone asked Him, “will only a few people be saved?” Jesus answered, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able. 25After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’ But he will reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.'

And as to your second point: we are all sinners. Apart from Christ, we can do nothing.

Scripture is pretty clear on the state of humanity:

10As it is written:** There is not any man just.**

 

[De_Maria]

Why does the Bible say… hell

Hell, as used in Scripture, is the place of the dead. Synonymous with Hades and actually, purgatory.

 

[De_Maria]

As we know, there is only ONE way to Heaven: Jesus. Every other road leads to hell.

True.

Luke makes it clear Jesus means Hell;

Huh?

23“Lord,” someone asked Him, “will only a few people be saved?” Jesus answered, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able. 25After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’ But he will reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.'

Does that mean that those outside will never enter heaven?

And as to your second point: we are all sinners. Apart from Christ, we can do nothing.

Still true. Not the point I’m making.

Scripture is pretty clear on the state of humanity:

10As it is written:** There is not any man just.**

Does every man deserve hell?

Do you believe that most people will go to eternal punishment? Does the wide gate, in the verse presented, represent eternal damnation?

I say it represents purgatory. Because that is where most people are going. Hell, if it has a gate, has a very small door, because few people are going there.

 

[truetofaith]

True.

Huh?

Does that mean that those outside will never enter heaven?

Still true. Not the point I’m making.

Does every man deserve hell?

Do you believe that most people will go to eternal punishment? Does the wide gate, in the verse presented, represent eternal damnation?

I say it represents purgatory. Because that is where most people are going. Hell, if it has a gate, has a very small door, because few people are going there.

Wow, I wish a priest or someone with true biblical knowledge would give us the answer.

There is a lot of error being expressed!

 

[BobCatholic]

1. Even though he was being punished, he still expressed concern for others. He still retained his humanity.

He expressed concern for his own house - for those who benefited him. He didn’t express concern for those who could not benefit him (i.e. Lazarus). In effect, he thought about himself.

This was definitely hell, not purgatory.

 

[boomerang]

He expressed concern for his own house - for those who benefited him. He didn’t express concern for those who could not benefit him (i.e. Lazarus). In effect, he thought about himself.

This was definitely hell, not purgatory.

I don’t know how the rich man’s brothers can benefit him. He asked for Lazarus to go to his brothers and warn them so that they might repent. I doubt a person in hell cares that anyone repent. The whole concept of repentance is probably beyond them at that point.

 

[truetofaith]

I don’t know how the rich man’s brothers can benefit him. He asked for Lazarus to go to his brothers and warn them so that they might repent. I doubt a person in hell cares that anyone repent. The whole concept of repentance is probably beyond them at that point.

The main point is he wouldn’t be that concerned about his brothers if he was in Purgatory…it’s, only temporary!

 

[James248]

I don’t know how the rich man’s brothers can benefit him. He asked for Lazarus to go to his brothers and warn them so that they might repent. I doubt a person in hell cares that anyone repent. The whole concept of repentance is probably beyond them at that point.

Because he was a bad influence on his brothers. Punishment in hell increases if you lead others to sin.

 

[boomerang]

The main point is he wouldn’t be that concerned about his brothers if he was in Purgatory…it’s, only temporary!

If purgatory is horrible, you would be very concerned about your family going there, temporary or not.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

The rich man did not exist. He was a figure Jesus made up with the parable to make a point about compassion, humility, and repentance. To argue about Hell or purgatory is to miss the point.

 

[vz71]

The main point is he wouldn’t be that concerned about his brothers if he was in Purgatory…it’s, only temporary!

As a parent, I want to spare my children pain. It does not matter if it is temporary or not.
The same can be said for the rest of my family.

 

[James248]

The rich man did not exist. He was a figure Jesus made up with the parable to make a point about compassion, humility, and repentance. To argue about Hell or purgatory is to miss the point.

Jesus was name dropping two people. Seems like he existed to me.

 

[BobCatholic]

I don’t know how the rich man’s brothers can benefit him. He asked for Lazarus to go to his brothers and warn them so that they might repent. I doubt a person in hell cares that anyone repent. The whole concept of repentance is probably beyond them at that point.

Would he care about his brothers if they did absolutely nothing for him? Of course not. They’d be in the same place as Lazarus in his mind.

The only reason he cares about his brothers is that they’re close and do things for each other, and probably got into business together. In other words, he’s thinking of himself and protecting those who gave him stuff.

 

[truetofaith]

As a parent, I want to spare my children pain. It does not matter if it is temporary or not.
The same can be said for the rest of my family.

So…you’re saying the rich man wants his brothers to completely change their lives & go straight to Heaven and avoid Purgatory which he was in?

I still believe Jesus is saying the rich man was in, hell.

 

[BobCatholic]

As a parent, I want to spare my children pain. It does not matter if it is temporary or not.
The same can be said for the rest of my family.

I’ve seen parents (OK, mainly mothers, because daddy tends not to be in the picture, and if they are, they do the same) defending their thug son (who, caught on camera and 50 witnesses seeing it, committed a horrific crime), speaking out and say what a good boy he was, and he was just turning his life around…

She wasn’t doing it because the kid was a good boy, she was doing it for preserving her ego (“No, I was not spoiling the kid and letting him do anything he wanted to do all his life, I was not a bad momma!”) She’ll say she was doing it for love of her son, but it was really ego driving that car.

Then there are those who say “throw the book at him, I raised him right and he refuses to listen to reason” Same thing, ego is the driver - “don’t blame me, I’m a good momma!”

In the same way, this rich guy was not defending his brothers because of the kindness of his heart, it was ego. You will notice that he never admitted anything wrong during the parable? That shows a lot.

 

[boomerang]

Would he care about his brothers if they did absolutely nothing for him? Of course not. They’d be in the same place as Lazarus in his mind.

The only reason he cares about his brothers is that they’re close and do things for each other, and probably got into business together. In other words, he’s thinking of himself and protecting those who gave him stuff.

What kind of business was it? Perhaps a sandal repair business? Or maybe they rented camels?

 

[vz71]

So…you’re saying the rich man wants his brothers to completely change their lives & go straight to Heaven and avoid Purgatory which he was in?

Correct.
The idea that his intent with his brothers was self serving seems strained.
He is dead. His brothers can do nothing for him.
So anything he wants done that may help them is effectively serving someone that can do nothing for him in return.

 

[vz71]

The only reason he cares about his brothers is that they’re close and do things for each other, and probably got into business together. In other words, he’s thinking of himself and protecting those who gave him stuff.

Were he really as self serving as this, wouldn’t he recognize that his brothers can do nothing for him?
Wouldn’t he then, realizing this, not care at all what befalls his brothers?

I can only see two possible motivations possible here.
1- his motives are altruistic, and he is therefore in purgatory.
2- he is trying to fool God with false altruism. Therefore he is likely in hell.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Any sin I commit on earth is finite, so it does not seem just that God would give eternal damnation for a finite crime.

Whatever sin I commit on this earth, God can put right. If I kill someone, God can raise them to eternal life, if I steal a car, God can give them something better in eternity.

I am guessing the rich man never feared God and chose to indulge himself. After death, the rich man has every reason to fear God, and I believe not being with God would be an unbearable punishment, this would be hell. But does it last forever?

Jesus died so that sins might be forgiven, we hope and pray that Jesus can forgive us our sins.

 

[BobCatholic]

What kind of business was it? Perhaps a sandal repair business? Or maybe they rented camels?

Oh yeah, Hertz-Rent-a-Camel.

Were he really as self serving as this, wouldn’t he recognize that his brothers can do nothing for him?
Wouldn’t he then, realizing this, not care at all what befalls his brothers?

I can only see two possible motivations possible here.
1- his motives are altruistic, and he is therefore in purgatory.
2- he is trying to fool God with false altruism. Therefore he is likely in hell.

I vote for 2. And since I’m from Chicago, I’ll vote early and often for 2.