Do you/would you carry a concealed firearm to Mass?

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jfz178 said:
Gee, I was 100% agreeing with you until that last sarcastic comment.
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That was not sarcastic. It was serious. There is a shortage of good police officers. It is always easier to criticize than to roll up one’s sleeves and jump in. I have the same issue with citizen review boards as I do with those who are comparing themselves to police here. It takes some knowledge to have an educated opinion.
 
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jfz178 said:
You have to have three elements to determine if someone is a deadly threat and therefore you are justified to use deadly force to stop them: Ability, Opportunity and Intent. It is called the “Jeopardy Triangle.” In this hypothetical, the attacker in the car has the first two, but not the third. Just because he attacked you just previously, that attack is over and the threat from him driving the car has to be judged on its own merits.
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Yes, I have taken those courses, I teach the refreshers. Intent is shown by the fact that have attacked you and you are still in danger. If the attacker changes from using a knife to a baseball bat, one does not need to have them renew the attack instead of presuming that they now intent to play baseball.

Disengagement cannot be established just because the car is moving in an opposite direction for a short period. That could simply be the prelude to an acceleration toward you. If they continue to move away from you to the extent that a reasonable person would conclude that they have disengaged, then, yes they have disengaged from the attack. But not until that has been established.
 
I’, authorized by law even though the Archdiocese has a policy against it. I carry to church, leave it in my car during mass, and retrieve it when I leave. I have carried in church. There’s no moral or theological issue, it’s to me a matter of polite manners.

If I knew of a specific threat I would carry in church regardless of policy. Or I wouldn’t go to church, which might be a sin. How do I choose?
 
Follow your conscience. Remember, the only reason why that crazy shooter in Texas didn’t kill every man, woman and child in that Church was because an NRA instructor with a gun nearby figured something was wrong.

The police were completely powerless.
 
Why do Americans talk about bandaid solutions like guns?
Why not address the big picture and the mindsets that cause these things to happen and why anyone would want to target Christians or Christian Churches of all people,and ask Jesus to use them in bringing his love to these people with these “inclinations”?

In Australia here no one carries guns and no one has guns except police,farmers and th odd criminal.
If a person carried a gun into whether it be a church or a shopping centre or wherever they would be immediately arrested regardless of their motives.
We have essentially a no gun culture and we don’t have any church shootings happening.
 
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SuperLuigi said:
Remember, the only reason why that crazy shooter in Texas didn’t kill every man, woman and child in that Church was because an NRA instructor with a gun nearby figured something was wrong.
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FYI - He was not confronted by the one who chased him down inside the Church. He had already left. There is no way to know any “what if”. He died by his own hand in the end.
 
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STMgtd said:
If I knew of a specific threat I would carry in church regardless of policy. Or I wouldn’t go to church, which might be a sin. How do I choose?
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Jesus had legions of angels to defend him, yet he chose the road to Calvary.
 
On the other hand, the feast of Our Lady of Rosary, formerly of Our Lady of Victory, was instituted by Pope St. Pius V as a commemoration of the victory of the Holy League over the Ottoman Empire in the battle of Lepanto, which he attributed to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Similarly, Pope Innocent XI extended the feast of the Holy Name of Mary to the entire Church to commemorate the defeat of the invading Ottomans at Vienna by Jan Sobieski, who had entrusted his kingdom to Our Lady of Częstochowa. Seems that neither the Church Militant nor the Church Triumphant are all that opposed to the idea of righteous self-defense.
 
How many unarmed civilians have been murdered by guns in Chicago, so far this year?
 
Rozellelily said:
In Australia here no one carries guns and no one has guns except police,farmers and th odd criminal.
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hmmm, this is just melbourne
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts
In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
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Unfortunately Melbourne in particular has been susceptible to gun type crimes as for some reason there is more organised crime groups in Melbourne than in Sydney etc.
They used to just shoot/target each other (other organised crime syndicates) but,that said,an innocent person could also be “accidentally shot” if caught in the cross hairs of such an “event” in a public place.
In the last few years though,and I don’t want this to sound racist,but Melbourne has become more unsafe due to the influx of African immigrants and the young ones seem to for some reason want to act tough and “play gangster” and they have been targeting innocent people or innocent shopkeepers and shops etc.
At the same time I want to state that there are also many law abiding excellent African migrant citizens.

This is a very concerning trend but is hard to address,in part due to political correctness (in my view).
I would possibly understand the temptation to want to carry a gun if living in those areas of Melbourne but even if someone wanted to, legally no one here is permitted to carry a gun around (excluding farmers).

Other solutions must be found,both on a political and social level.
The best way (in my opinion) to solve a problem long term is by addressing it at a “root cause” level.
Ie:if the cause is culture shock,feeling excluded and lack of social integration than that needs to be addressed.
If the cause is poor parenting and simply bad behaviour then perhaps the solution needs to be the government being more discerning in who they allow to immigrate.

Australia is still relatively safe but not to the level of somewhere like Singapore for example.
There’s never been a church shooting here.
My guess is that church shooting in US is either due to a random/chance event or that the shooter have some “wounds” with Christianity due to bad past experience?
 
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Rozellelily said:
Unfortunately Melbourne in particular has been susceptible to gun type crimes as for some reason
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this has been my point in the usa. we have a high death per 100k; but, when you exclude melbourne type cities, the number is aligned with the rest of the world.

more importantly, every country has these issues but we just have a greater number.

our advantage is that we are not defenseless unless we want to be.
 
That’s what I thought. This happens there even once, no one, ironically, has a prayer.

Enjoy!
 
That’s true but the same could be said about our every day to day lives whether it be going to a Macdonalds,a shopping centre ,the beach or a church etc…

Isn’t it better though to address these things at a root cause level rather than becoming a gun culture?
I think that US should at least make it illegal to have fully automatic weapons and only allow people to have guns that have a maximum of approx 4 bullets firing while of course at the same time trying to find solutions to why these mass/targeted shooting are happening in the first place.
 
Fully automatic weapons are already illegal without a special permit from the federal government. They are mostly collector’s items and rarely used in crime of any kind. And where did you come up with a “maximum of 4 bullets firing?” What does that even mean and what kind of gun are you thinking of? I know a lot about guns and I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Actually, it’s the cities per se. If you took away gang and drug related shootings in Melbourne or Chicago, they would be almost as safe as anywhere else. Until we can get a handle on that problem, there will be no solution.
 
Rozellelily said:
Isn’t it better though to address these things at a root cause level rather than becoming a gun culture?

I think that US should at least make it illegal to have fully automatic weapons and only allow people to have guns that have a maximum of approx 4 bullets firing while of course at the same time trying to find solutions to why these mass/targeted shooting are happening in the first place.
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In the US it is VERY difficult to get automatic weapons.

The operative word here is culture.

In the US there really isn’t a gun culture. There’s a 2nd Amendment culture and there’s a violent by any means necessary culture.

If you avoid drugs, drama, domestic abuse and gangs, your chances of getting shot go down exponentially.

It’s really not rocket science.

I just know:
Rozellelily said:
That’s true but the same could be said about our every day to day lives whether it be going to a Macdonalds,a shopping centre ,the beach or a church etc…
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that’s a chance you’re willing to take.
 
Getting back to the topic, I would really think there is no pat answer. First, if the bishop or priest makes a rule, or if the law prohibits it, then the question is moot. Second, if it is allowable, then it is something that one must answer for himself. I do not like it, but there are one or two here who could safely pull it off. My own experience is in less than lethal options, which is what I will always stay with, and which I deem more suitable for the Sanctuary.
 
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