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dvdjs
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And try to avoid misinforming yourself.
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PetraG
Guest
How about I know people who work in emergency and intensive care medicine? How about I believe people who have treated patients personally? Do you know anybody who does intubations? Anybody who works as an EMT or a emergency doctor or an intensivist? I do.
This is real. I found it quite interesting, actually, that the “rebel” doctor is a former emergency medicine doctor who now works in urgent care. That is real medicine, don’t get me wrong, but those guys aren’t intubating anybody. They’re not where people are seeing more codes in less time than in their entire careers. They’re not working 12 hour shifts with the ambulances backed up outside and patients who arrive in those ambulances waiting hours to be seen.
So sorry, don’t pull the “mainstream media” paranoia on me. Yes, I am well aware that the some of the media pursue their ratings and clicks and paper sales by running around like chickens with their heads cut off every time there are snowflakes or high winds in the forecast. I’m not saying the media should just be trusted like they’re all Walter Cronkite. I’m just saying this pandemic is the real thing.
We can argue about how to handle it, that is a legitimate and necessary discussion, but let us not pretend that the whole world is getting hysterical about flu season because they cynically hope it will keep Donald Trump from being re-elected. That is itself a dangerous and false narrative.
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PetraG
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We’re not going to treat any epidemic that falls short of 1918 as if it were nothing. (Oh, only a Category 3 hurricane coming? Well, I’m not boarding up my house until it gets at least to a Category 4… I mean, because, you know, Katrina and Harvey and all those came through, and the cities are still there. If you board up your windows, you’re just falling for that climate change hoax. Hurricanes are a fact of life, it isn’t the end of the world…)
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Gab123
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Yes, fear spread by the mass media drives people to run to the hospital, and anyone with the common flu are going to run to the hospital thinking they are going to die of the Corona virus. And it doesn’t help when administrators are pressured to pressure doctors to tally everything as COVID19.
Yes, CoronaVirus is real. Yes, it is much more contagious than the common flu; but the recovery rates are OVERWHELMING, just like the common flu. The people that are dying are the same vulnerable people dying of the FLU; the elderly, those with preconditions and weak immunities. The flu is very contagious and affects millions of people around the world and kills tens of thousands of people in this country every year. Why is that NOT a pandemic?
As a doctor in NYC recently stated: “While COVID-19 is serious, fear of it is being over-amplified. The public needs to understand that the vast majority of infected people do quite well.”
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Gab123
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The same paranoia driven by the media drove hordes of people to make a run on toilet paper and hoard Lysol, likewise is making people run to the hospital.
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PetraG
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The doctor was not talking about the people showing up at the emergency department with labored breathing. No, it isn’t true that most people who are admitted to the ICU do quite well. That group is doing very badly. Presentation of the severe cases isn’t like the flu. There is a great deal of debate about the best way to treat…if to intubate, when to intubate, what’s the best way to facilitate breathing? The number of people going into cardiac arrest over the course of a shift isn’t like the flu. These are people have seen the flu season every year for a career–ten or fifteen or 20 years. One told me this was like the Pneumocystis pneumonia that AIDS patients came in with before there was a treatment for HIV. He’d been around long enough to see the like, but his younger colleagues had not. The difference is there were never this many AIDS patients coming in with pneumonia all at once.
“That” is not a single thing. In general, though, “that” has a vaccine and has known treatments and is not overwhelming the hospitals every influenza season. This, on the other hand, is killing vulnerable people, yes, but vulnerable people who might live five or ten or thirty more years if they don’t get it. This disease is talked about as if hardly strikes anyone except the terminally ill, but that isn’t true. (That isn’t even true when it comes to influenza, for that matter.) More to the point, though, this is overwhelming hospital emergency departments and ICUs.
When did the media tell people to buy up all the toilet paper and Lysol? It isn’t “the media” telling people that COVID-19 comes from 5G towers or that you can kill it with a hair drier or most of the other utter nonsense going around. No, that’s the random people posting who-knows-what who are for some unknown reason are trusted for having some common sense.
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Maximus1
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You left out social distancing. Which is the most important item and the most restrictive.
Even when you have these things, the more hours of contact, the more breaches. Volume of interaction increases risk.
Those meat guys work shoulder to shoulder. No idea what they can do to protect themselves.
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40% of infection seems to pass from outwardly healthy people.
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I can understand political antsy. Truth is, president’s have smooth sailing, and others have a disaster to deal with. Objectively, the job requires self sacrifice when the nation is at stake. Our history shows this. Of course no law against being pissed
Even when you have these things, the more hours of contact, the more breaches. Volume of interaction increases risk.
Those meat guys work shoulder to shoulder. No idea what they can do to protect themselves.
Next
40% of infection seems to pass from outwardly healthy people.
And
I can understand political antsy. Truth is, president’s have smooth sailing, and others have a disaster to deal with. Objectively, the job requires self sacrifice when the nation is at stake. Our history shows this. Of course no law against being pissed
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Maximus1
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Liver damage, heart damage, and other PERMENENT injuries.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Unfortunately in times like this, disinformation floods the internet and people are more susceptible to it. Disinformation like the title of this thread. No, doctors are not “rebelling against the covid-19 narrative”.
And disinformation like this:
This is one thread that should just die a quiet death.
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PetraG
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Exactly. If the American Medical Association says it, it is “Big Pharma.” If some lone pair of doctors who retired from emergency medicine to practice urgent care, it is “doctors rebelling.”
Find me doctors who actually treat COVID-19 patients. I know what they’re saying:
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PetraG
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You quoted a doctor in NYC. I was clarifying because you were replying to my post in which I was talking about the situation in the emergency departments. Do not accuse me of “creating a red herring.”
You wrote: "
but did you know that about 90 million Americans have at least one of a group of pre-existing conditions that worsen outcomes? Honestly, do you think diabetes, hypertension, heart disease or obesity are rare in this country?
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Gab123
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Again, what part of the vast majority of people who get the virus recover, just like from the flu, don’t you understand?
I’m just noting that what was stated was not what you were replying to.
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Gab123
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You obviously did not watch all the video
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PetraG
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I understand that a large fraction of people have immunity from influenza, which is not true of SARS-CoV-2. I understand that deaths in New York City are up nearly 300%. London: 96%, Madrid, 161%. Bergamo, Italy? 464%
I’m also coming to understand that you want to believe that the Pope called off public liturgies at the Vatican during Holy Week because he is among those who “swallow the narratives coming from the same liars who sell the lies of euthanasia, sterile sex/gay marriage, abortion, and infanticide,” because he’s in on the “continuation of the dossier/Russiahoax/Ukrainephonecall-impeachment-deepState/NancyPelosiStateOfTheUnionRippedSpeech political attempt to destroy the legitimate election I’d Donald J Trump.”
Yeah, no, he’s not. We’re not. What your thing is, I don’t know, but it is not based on the evidence, excepting the evidence that confirms your biases.
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dvdjs
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What do you consider to be a “vast majority”?
What data informs your assessment of recovery?
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