Does abortion save millions from hell?

[Thom18]

Zaccheus:

NO. The Church does not teach this.

Sure does. The teaching is still the same, those who die in the state of grace, will go directly to heaven (do not pass “GO”, do not collect 200 dollars). By the way, WE do not get anything good out of it, the aborted fetuses do. So we act in THEIR best interest, which is the sign of love. (Love is to will the good of the other. )

Quit posting this nonsense claiming that the Church supports abortion or you’re going to quickly find yourself suspended.

 

[Fauken]

Sure does.

No it doesn’t. Catholicism rejects utilitarianism. And God is love. Anyone who truly wills the good of another would not do something intrinsically evil to gain it; it would be rejecting Love Itself.

 

[Annie]

Have you been there? And brought back some video?

Oh, do you have videoed personal experience of what happens after death?

 

[Spaten]

Quit posting this nonsense claiming that the Church supports abortion or you’re going to quickly find yourself suspended.

I did not say anything of that kind. I simply point out the LOGICAL COROLLARY of the teaching that everyone in the state of grace will go to heaven.

No it doesn’t. Catholicism rejects utilitarianism. And God is love. Anyone who truly wills the good of another would not do something intrinsically evil to gain it; it would be rejecting Love Itself.

Logic trumps everything.

 

[Fauken]

Logic trumps everything.

Not when it relies on erroneous definitions.

 

[Zaccheus]

(Love is to will the good of the other. )

Do you claim people murder other people out of love for their victims? Because the Church teaches very clearly that abortion is murder.
And your use of a wink icon weakens your credibility.

 

[Fauken]

What is “erroneous” about the teaching that everyone in the state of grace goes directly to heaven?

That’s not in question. Your definition of love is.

 

[Thom18]

Thom18:

Quit posting this nonsense claiming that the Church supports abortion or you’re going to quickly find yourself suspended.

I did not say anything of that kind. I simply point out the LOGICAL COROLLARY of the teaching that everyone in the state of grace will go to heaven.

Oh, but you did quite more than that. Insinuating that killing someone who may or may not be in a state of grace is an “act of love” is quite different from simply saying, “one who dies in the state of grace enters the Kingdom”.

Fauken:

No it doesn’t. Catholicism rejects utilitarianism. And God is love. Anyone who truly wills the good of another would not do something intrinsically evil to gain it; it would be rejecting Love Itself.

Logic trumps everything.

You say that as if logic dictates that murder is an act of love.

 

[Kindnessmatters]

Of course those seeking, performing, donating to, and assisting in the procedures are all sinning. So, no. Who knows either how many potential saints, and servants of God are being aborted? Let’s not spend our thoughts and time inventing more ludicrous ideology to advocate and defend murder.

 

[Annie]

I simply point out the LOGICAL COROLLARY of the teaching that everyone in the state of grace will go to heaven.

The problem with this is that those who are not baptized are not in a state of grace. Therefore we do not know that abortion will send the victim to Heaven, so your logic is blown to pieces.

 

[Fauken]

Willing the good of another. And getting to heaven is the greatest good.

Abortion however is not only not good, but intrinsically evil. It is not an option. Willing the good of another does not mean anything goes.

 

[Pnwcatholic]

Again, I dont support abortion. But I do believe aborted babies and miscarriages go to heaven. And the Church encourages that belief. And if we have hope they one MAY be saved then they all would be saved because God wouldnt save one innocent over another.

 

[Annie]

How do you know that? It is an open question.

It is not an open question: we are all have the stain of original sin on our souls until we are baptized.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Does this mean that if EVERY unborn baby were aborted, it would be even better, because everyone would then have a good possibility of going to heaven? Surely not. Going to heaven may be the ultimate goal (particularly according to Christianity), but our earthly life is also important. It is here that we have the choice of doing G-d’s will by helping others as well as becoming more righteous human beings. It is here we grow, develop our minds and bodies, learn to love and care for others, learn to feel a wide range of emotions, in short, become fully human in the way G-d intended us to be. Otherwise, we might as well all skip the earthly life and aim directly for heaven without ever being born.

 

[Gorgias]

Everything issue the Church has a position on is supposed to reflect the will of god meaning its claims to have a special insight into God’s will.

It makes all the sense in the world. We don’t have “special insight into God’s will”; rather, we merely have God’s self-revelation. What He has not revealed, we do not have knowledge of.

It does not matter WHO says something, what matters is WHAT is being said.

Agreed. And if the milieu of “what is being said” is a comedy play, then are we seriously supposed to expect that it reflects serious philosophical / theological inquiry? C’mon, now…!

The logical conclusion is that killing all the newborns immediately after baptism is the absolute, surefire way to help them into heaven. This is what the church teaches .

Actually, this is not “what the Church teaches.” What the Church teaches is that we do not know the fate of those infants who die without baptism, but we entrust them to God’s mercy. You might want to spend more time seeking theological truth in Church, rather than on Broadway.

Sure does. The teaching is still the same, those who die in the state of grace, will go directly to heaven (do not pass “GO”, do not collect 200 dollars).

The Church does not teach that unbaptized infants die in the state of grace. I mean… nice try, but you’re either misinformed or you’re deliberately mischaracterizing Church teaching. Which is it?

I simply point out the LOGICAL COROLLARY of the teaching that everyone in the state of grace will go to heaven.

…without realizing who is in the state of grace. Nice try.

A mercy killing is a sign of love.

I’ll ask you to never express your love of me, then.

The newborn, who is baptized, or someone who just received absolution, are in the sate of grace.

We’re talking about abortion. They’re not baptized. I sincerely hope you’re just confused…

 

[Thom18]

@Spaten You will have to explain that one to God, because He gave us the Commandments as a guide for love, and He very clearly established that one shall not kill. If you think that you know more than Him, you’re at liberty to tell Him as much- but it’s an argument that you will certainly lose.

 

[FiveLinden]

Does this mean that if EVERY unborn baby were aborted, it would be even better, because everyone would then have a good possibility of going to heaven? Surely not.

There would be many fewer in hell. Whether this is ‘better’ or not isn’t what I was asking. I assume this outcome at least is positive in itself.

 

[meltzerboy2]

And I’m saying that, according to this (faulty) logic, if EVERYONE were aborted, there would be even fewer in hell. That should, however, not be the only criterion or goal of life, because missing out on life here on Earth is not a good thing according to either G-d’s will or human growth and development in serving G-d and caring for others, thereby cultivating one’s gifts and one’s humanity.

 

[D.Erasmus.R]

Say a foetus is murdered. Murdered foetus doesn’t enter heave but the the foetus’s murderer repents and does go to heaven. Would God be just to allow the murderer to go to heaven but not allow the murder victim?
If deceased foetuses go to hell then these foetuses can’t be innocent(unless the innocent are punished in hell); thus the killing of foetuses is not the killing of innocents.

 

[JimG]

The Church teaches the doctrine of original sin. Every human being who comes into existence has original sin on his soul. The only exception is the Blessed Mother, who was conceived without original sin, and in a state of sanctifying grace. In order to be free of original sin, baptism is necessary. That is doctrine. Anyone who kills an unborn child deprives it of the chance of baptism.