I would agree with that. My pastor when to one led by the priests of St. John Cantius in Chicago. He did it as his vacation. It took him about 2 weeks to learn.
In Seattle we have a parish called North American Martyrs, which is devoted strictly to the Tridentine Rite. It’s in union with Rome, and started out as an Una Voce group… I believe it’s been around for about 20 years, but was only recently given the status of a parish by the Archbishop of Seattle a few years ago. I used to go there regularly, until I left the Catholic Church. I believe all their sacraments are administered in the extraordinary form, but I may be wrong… I was Confirmed in a parish that used the ordinary form and didn’t start attending the Tridentine Mass until I was older.
This can be requested at any Catholic Church in union with the Roman Pontiff, Pope Benedict XVI.
:nope:
I think the only sticking point is if the EF is a SCHEDULED, i.e. an officially published Mass in the bulletin, etc. The priest can still have a private Mass at a routine time and all those who ask to be admitted, must be. There are many parishes that have Masses at routine times that are not “Scheduled” Masses. These “private” Masses are at the discression of pastor and need no permission from the Bisop. The Bishop also can not ban the EF of the Mass. SP removed that capability from the local ordinary.Did you read my previous post? If what you say is true, then you are suggesting that it is easier for a priest to organise a public celebration of the EF than the OF mass, which makes absolutely no sense in canonical law. For all that I love of the EF, the fact is that Extraordinary Form does not have any special privilege over the Ordinary Form.
You cannot read Summorum Pontificum in isolation. It is not the only item of canon law that exists in the Church. It must be read in the wider context of Holy Tradition, and more specifically the canons of the Church that clearly describe the powers and rights of ordinaries. The point of the Summorum Pontificum is to elevate the availability of the EF mass to the same level as that of the OF mass, so that more of the lay faithful may have access to the graces that abound from the beauty of the EF mass. However, as I have already emphasised before, the EF mass is still subject to the bishop in the same way as the OF mass. If a bishop can order a priest not to celebrate a certain OF mass, or even control the way it is celebrated, why can he not have the same control over the EF mass? Is he not the ordinary, to whom the priests are bound to by their promises of obedience which they gave upon their ordination? Remember, whether it is the EF or OF being celebrated, it is still a mass, and the fact is that it is being celebrated in his territory, and under his authority. This has always been the case, even before the Second Vatican Council.
Summorum Pontificum is not meant to undermine this authority. Instead, it is meant to provide more freedom for the EF to be celebrated. It takes into account the fact that some bishops are more closed-minded to the TLM than others, so it clearly sets out the position of the Catholic Church to welcome the EF with open arms. It gives statutory options for the EF to be celebrated, as well avenues for recourse should the priest or even bishop refuse. It is not meant to ‘liberate’ priests from their obedience to the bishop. The fact that there is an option for recourse to the Ecclesia Dei emphasises the importance of the bishop’s authority in this matter. If the laity, with a willing diocesan priest, could celebrate the EF whenever, wherever, without the permission of the bishop, then why would you need to appeal to the Ecclesia Dei? Hence, one can clearly see that the bishop still retains ordinary jurisdiction on this matter, even if it may be modified by the extraordinary intervention of the Ecclesia Dei (should they choose to intervene).
Of course, I must qualify that what I have just mentioned is only relevant to diocesan priests. Secular regular or religious priests have a certain autonomy from the bishop, so you may find it easier to ask them to celebrate the EF, but that’s a different matter altogether.
In any case, a merry new year one and all.
You can always move. People pickup their whole family to move for more money, why not move for love of Christ? Pickup your cross and follow me. I have personally seen at least five families move exactly to be closer to the TLM and holy priests. It really does bring peace to your life.
If you truely believe that then you have given up. Write letters to your pastor oficially requesting it. Keep copies of all letters and responses. If he says no, appeal to your Bishop. If he says no, forward all copies along with signed requests to Ecclesia Dei Rome. They WILL get it scheduled, I have seen it personally happen. No Bishop likes a phone call or letter from Rome.
I gave the example of a scheduled Mass because that is the best example of a public Mass, but that does not mean that a Mass that is not scheduled is private. In fact, given that laity can be allowed into a private Mass, there are no strict criteria over what makes a Mass “public”. Many parishes don’t even have a bulletin. Does that make their regular Masses not public Masses? I have seen lunchtime Masses celebrated in downtown Manila for large crowds without prior notification. Does that make them “private”? Does the bishop lose all control over the celebration of a regular Mass despite the attendance of the laity simply because it is not in a bulletin of some sorts? It would be naive to think that the priests have some magic loophole to organise Masses for the laity that the bishop cannot control. Disobedient priests would simply be able take advantage of it and if they are liberal priests, for example, liturgical abuse will flow freely and the bishop would not be able to stop it. Thankfully, though, the Church does not work that way.
As mentioned before, the bishop does have as much a right to deny the EF as he does for the OF. It is completely within his pastoral judgement to determine if allowing the EF is best for the laity. I would avoid speaking of “rights” because they are invariably loaded terms, and it gives the impression that they are inviolable. Certainly the bishop is now obligated to permit the EF when requested, but it does not compel him to definitely provide it, because he still has to weigh such a decision against other factors such as the unity and well-being of his diocese.
I know you mean well and please dont take this the wrong way. But sometimes this makes me laugh. Honestly, I dont mean to be disrespectful. Of course letters have been written, of course correspondence has been kept but the bottom line is that if a Bishop does not want the EF celebrated it wont be. What priest would go against the request of his bishop? This has been talked of on many other threads. when speaking of rights the Bishop is the one with the right to govern his flock. Rome does not “override” his authority. I may (and do) disagree with the Bishop, I may think him stubborn and wrong but I must be obedient to the prince of the Church. I must respect my Bishop and pray.
You will learn what others are talking about.
This rout takes you through 3 COUNT THEM 3!!! States.
Now while I stay in the same state (though I must go to a DIFFERENT TIME ZONE it is on one of the deadliest highways around. Not to mention it is winter. Meanwhile the SSPX Mass is:
That is the time most people spend commuting to work…
I know you mean well and please dont take this the wrong way. But sometimes this makes me laugh. Honestly, I dont mean to be disrespectful. Of course letters have been written, of course correspondence has been kept but the bottom line is that if a Bishop does not want the EF celebrated it wont be. What priest would go against the request of his bishop? This has been talked of on many other threads. when speaking of rights the Bishop is the one with the right to govern his flock. Rome does not “override” his authority. I may (and do) disagree with the Bishop, I may think him stubborn and wrong but I must be obedient to the prince of the Church. I must respect my Bishop and pray.
I know of other diocese where the Bishops flat out do not want the EF. But what is more frustrating to me than our inability to have the EF is people who though well meaning think the problem is that we have not asked for it in the right manner or that it is only some far away diocese that doesnt matter. The fact is that I know of others who have this same issue. Bishops will come and go. Ours will be gone in 18 months. Rome has had a habit of appointing more conservative Bishops lately. That is something I look forward to. But the EF will be around forever. I just hope I live long enough to attend one close to my home that is in full communion with the Pope.
I don’t ask for advice. Advice that I and others have already done. But I do ask for prayers and a little sympathy.
And while some of you are praying for those of us who do not have access to this form. please remember how blessed many of you seem to be to have access to one.
**Our Bishop has stated in the diocesan paper that the SSPX are not Catholic and we can not attend./**QUOTE]
Then your Bishop contradicts what Rome has officially stated. Rome has stated the SSPX ARE Catholic. They are disobediant, but still Catholic. You are fine with disregarding Rome then? That is the same mindset that the SSPX has. Amazing how that works isn’t it.
Private Masses are defined as follows by Summorum Pontificum:
In Masses celebrated without the people, each Catholic priest of the Latin rite, whether secular or religious, may use the Roman Missal published by Bl. Pope John XXIII in 1962, or the Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1970, and may do so on any day with the exception of the Easter Triduum (when private Masses are not allowed). For such celebrations, with either one Missal or the other, the priest has no need for permission from the Apostolic See or from his Ordinary. Celebrations of Mass as mentioned above may—observing all the norms of law—also be attended by faithful who, of their own free will, ask to be admitted. (Articles 2 and 4)
The previous poster who believes that the Bishop can forbid the EF is wrong. After SP he has no power to restrict private Masses. The only thing the Bishop could do is forbid public (i.e. scheduled Masses with the people) celebration of Mass by a Priest, but he would need to have a valid reason for doing so. That is why Bishop’s who do not like the EF and the priest’s who have a desire for it, put said priest’s in the very rural or isolated parts of the diocese. Almost like being banished to the castle tower. The priest has won his right, but to what effect?
It is like I said, the BEST solution for the laity is to work your way up the chain of command just like Summorum Pontificum says to do. Ecclesia Dei WILL bring in a Priest. They have sent FSSP and ICRSS priests to dioceses that have Bishop’s that act this way. In this way the ICRSS and FSSP report to their superiors and only answer to the local Bishop in limited matters.
It is a sad state of affairs when this type of thing happens. Before Bishop Morlino came to Madison, WI the previous Bishp was presented with a petition signed by over 2000 people requesting the “indult” Mass. He ALWAYS denied it. Numerous petitions were sent to Rome at the time. NOTHING happened from Rome. What DID happen is the ICRSS came AND the SSPX came. Wisconsin is now home to more taditional orders than anywhere in the USA. In addition Rome appointed us Bishop Morlino. One of the most tradition Friendly Bishop’s in the country.
Bishop Morlino’s first act after SP was to have a Pontifical Mass. He then invited the SJCP to come to his diocese. There is now daily EF Mass in many parishes. Even the diocese parishes where priests are not connected with a religious order are moving towards tradition. St. Mary’s in Pine Bluff now has EF Masses AND all of the NO Masses are now Ad Orientem. These decisions were all up the pastor of each Parish as all of these options are legal and allowed.
The best solution is pray for your Bishop and plead to God to interceed. God does answer those who beg for his intercession.
Believe me, I do understand the problem. While we are fortunate enough to live in an area with multiple Extraordinary Form masses in union with Rome and we only drive 60 miles to go to one on Sunday (because we live in the country), I know only too well that many cities/areas of the country are devoid of any Tridentine masses. As has been pointed out multiple times, many bishops are opposed to the Extraordinary Form of the mass and, given their opposition, it just doesn’t happen, Summorum Pontificum or no. You have my deepest sympathy.
Think of the priest as leading the people in worship of God at the altar. He is not “turning his back” to us but rather, along with us, is facing God in prayer and adoration. The silences inherent in the Extraordinary Form, especially during the consecration, invite us into deep reflection upon the mysteries of the sacrament.
