Does anyone here, that believes in God, actually think that God accepts gay marriage?

[Rau]

But two fathers can never give a child the mother that a child deserves, and vice-versa. Such a family will always be inherently flawed in its ability to raise children correctly.

We may agree, but that’s hardly relevant in understanding the viewpoint of others, which is all I’ve sought to express.

A homosexual couple (who have the legal care of a child), will, by and large, not tolerate the view that their family is “flawed” or “inferior” to ours. This is the issue - their argument is for societal equivalence, acceptance and affirmation, and no longer for “legal rights” (that bridge is mostly already crossed).

I don’t support the gay argument at all. But I do find it easy to grasp:

We are intrinsically like this (SSA).
Like you, we want to be in loving, intimate relationships.
Love is universally good.
We can only enjoy our intimacy on a same sex basis.
We too want to form committed relationships with the one we love.
We love children as do you.
We threaten no one.
Why do you seek to deny us our most fundamental human needs?

[No need to tell me how that might be a flawed argument - you’d be debating with the wrong person!]

 

[Lochias]

We may agree, but that’s hardly relevant in understanding the viewpoint of others, which is all I’ve sought to express.

A homosexual couple (who have the legal care of a child), will, by and large, not tolerate the view that their family is “flawed” or “inferior” to ours. This is the issue - their argument is for societal equivalence, acceptance and affirmation, and no longer for “legal rights” (that bridge is mostly already crossed).

I don’t support the gay argument at all. But I do find it easy to grasp:

We are intrinsically like this (SSA).
Like you, we want to be in loving, intimate relationships.
Love is universally good.
We can only enjoy our intimacy on a same sex basis.
We too want to form committed relationships with the one we love.
We love children as do you.
We threaten no one.
Why do you seek to deny us our most fundamental human needs?

[No need to tell me how that might be a flawed argument - you’d be debating with the wrong person!]

I understand. The argument I gave is the simple and best answer to those questions, however. The homosexual couple in your example is completely and utterly turned inward upon self, to the point that they don’t care if the child that they adopt will likely long for a mother (or father, depending) that they see the other kids as having; it’s all about the happiness of the gay couple, and anyone else’s happiness can be damned. God help the child if he or she was conceived via IFV, like a friend of mine is doing for a gay couple who will be paying her many thousands of dollars for the favor; that child will learn that their existence was literally bought, like groceries or a new car.

 

[Chizzywinks]

I understand. The argument I gave is the simple and best answer to those questions, however. The homosexual couple in your example is completely and utterly turned inward upon self, to the point that they don’t care if the child that they adopt will likely long for a mother (or father, depending) that they see the other kids as having; it’s all about the happiness of the gay couple, and anyone else’s happiness can be damned. God help the child if he or she was conceived via IFV, like a friend of mine is doing for a gay couple who will be paying her many thousands of dollars for the favor; that child will learn that their existence was literally bought, like groceries or a new car.

Wow, I totally disagree! That child was WANTED. That child was not an accidental pregnancy, or a child not really wanted or planned for. That child will know that he or she was very much wanted! And as far as a gay couple not being able to give that child the mother (or father) that they MAY wish they had, well…many children out there only have ONE parent maybe due to death or abandonment. A child of a gay couple has just as good of a chance of having a full and happy life as does a child of a heterosexual couple.

 

[Lochias]

Wow, I totally disagree! That child was WANTED. That child was not an accidental pregnancy, or a child not really wanted or planned for. That child will know that he or she was very much wanted! And as far as a gay couple not being able to give that child the mother (or father) that they MAY wish they had, well…many children out there only have ONE parent maybe due to death or abandonment. A child of a gay couple has just as good of a chance of having a full and happy life as does a child of a heterosexual couple.

Nope.

The gay couple wanted the child for the couple’s own happiness. The friend I previously mentioned was concerned for a time, because tests were showing that the baby might have Down Syndrome.

The gay couple were already deciding when it might be best to terminate, before further tests were even coming back. Thank God for the child that tests now show the baby to be fine.

So, you see, the couple only wanted the child as long as it was a happy event for THEM. It’s all about their happiness. That child would have been nothing more than a troubling memory for them if tests had shown that it was ill. So much for the child’s well-being and happiness.

Further, when at all possible, a child NEEDS a mother AND father to learn from and grow with. Purposefully denying the child the benefit of a mother or father will only harm that child greatly in the long run.

So, I totally disagree with you, and so does the logic of the situation.

 

[meltzerboy]

Nope.

The gay couple wanted the child for the couple’s own happiness. The friend I previously mentioned was concerned for a time, because tests were showing that the baby might have Down Syndrome.

The gay couple were already deciding when it might be best to terminate, before further tests were even coming back. Thank God for the child that tests now show the baby to be fine.

So, you see, the couple only wanted the child as long as it was a happy event for THEM. It’s all about their happiness. That child would have been nothing more than a troubling memory for them if tests had shown that it was ill. So much for the child’s well-being and happiness.

Further, when at all possible, a child NEEDS a mother AND father to learn from and grow with. Purposefully denying the child the benefit of a mother or father will only harm that child greatly in the long run.

So, I totally disagree with you, and so does the logic of the situation.

I know you most likely don’t believe in abortion under any circumstances, but couldn’t a couple, whether straight or gay, be thinking about aborting an unborn baby with Down’s syndrome out of concern for the baby and not for selfish reasons? Or perhaps a combination of reasons? Further, are you basing your view on gay adoption and parenting on this single case alone, as if all or most gay couples think and behave alike?

 

[heidi_storage]

I know you most likely don’t believe in abortion under any circumstances, but couldn’t a couple, whether straight or gay, be thinking about aborting an unborn baby with Down’s syndrome out of concern for the baby and not for selfish reasons? Or perhaps a combination of reasons? Further, are you basing your view on gay adoption and parenting on this single case alone, as if all or most gay couples think and behave alike?

Heterosexual couples absolutely do use the reasoning you suggest. I think it flawed, though–Down syndrome isn’t incompatible with life, or even a “good” life, so having coaxed this little one into being, I think it wholly selfish to deny it a chance at life. It would be a better argument if you had something like anencephaly, where the poor baby isn’t going to have ANY sort of life, though I have heard of couples being grateful for the little time they’ve had when carrying a child with anencephaly.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I know you most likely don’t believe in abortion under any circumstances, but couldn’t a couple, whether straight or gay, be thinking about aborting an unborn baby with Down’s syndrome out of concern for the baby and not for selfish reasons? Or perhaps a combination of reasons?

You have got to be kidding me.

Seriously, meltzerboy, you have always struck me as intelligent, and an independent thinker, but in the above questions I feel like you have dropped all that and just bought the liberal line.

Have you ever met a child with Down’s Syndrome? These are some of the happiest, most joyful people in the world! How could you consider killing such a person out of generosity for that person? Do you really think being intelligent and functional is that important in life? I sometimes *wish *I had a child with Down’s Syndrome, because parents of such children often seem to have such a unique and beautiful perspective on life.

Please, for all our benefits, give us ONE unselfish reason that a person could have to abort a Down’s Syndrome baby.

 

[PRmerger]

You have got to be kidding me.

Seriously, meltzerboy, you have always struck me as intelligent, and an independent thinker, but in the above questions I feel like you have dropped all that and just bought the liberal line.

Have you ever met a child with Down’s Syndrome? These are some of the happiest, most joyful people in the world! How could you consider killing such a person out of generosity for that person? Do you really think being intelligent and functional is that important in life? I sometimes *wish *I had a child with Down’s Syndrome, because parents of such children often seem to have such a unique and beautiful perspective on life.

Amen! To everything here.

Please, for all our benefits, give us ONE unselfish reason that a person could have to abort a Down’s Syndrome baby.

Yes. And this reason needs to apply to an** unborn** baby with Down Syndrome without being a reason to also kill a **born **child with Down Syndrome, (unless, meltzerboy, you find it moral to have a good reason to kill a born child with DS, in which case I say )

 

[Captain_America]

No. It’s impossible to “believe” in “gay marriage”.

This does enormous disservice to our natural gender differences and the kinds of life long lessons we learn from maleness and femaleness.

It does a great disservice to the family, to what it does for people (parents as well as children) and to what it does for society.

The whole promotion of this is just another toying with society for fun and profit.

 

[kolya111]

It doesn’t matter if God accepts gay marriage. We do not live in God’s society.

We live in a secular society, and that is a good thing, because it spares us the difficulty of killing each other during arguments over what kind of society God thinks we ought to have.

 

[meltzerboy]

You have got to be kidding me.

Seriously, meltzerboy, you have always struck me as intelligent, and an independent thinker, but in the above questions I feel like you have dropped all that and just bought the liberal line.

Have you ever met a child with Down’s Syndrome? These are some of the happiest, most joyful people in the world! How could you consider killing such a person out of generosity for that person? Do you really think being intelligent and functional is that important in life? I sometimes *wish *I had a child with Down’s Syndrome, because parents of such children often seem to have such a unique and beautiful perspective on life.

Please, for all our benefits, give us ONE unselfish reason that a person could have to abort a Down’s Syndrome baby.

Please don’t take my comment out of context. I was responding to another poster’s experience with a gay couple and a Down syndrome baby. I’m not saying I personally would do this or that a child with Down syndrome cannot lead a happy life despite their intellectual and functional limitations. However, it is conceivable to me that a couple (gay or straight) might be considering those limitations, rightly or wrongly, before bringing their child into the world, for the benefit of the child and not only, or at all, due to their own selfish concerns.

Thanks for the compliment, though.

 

[meltzerboy]

Heterosexual couples absolutely do use the reasoning you suggest. I think it flawed, though–Down syndrome isn’t incompatible with life, or even a “good” life, so having coaxed this little one into being, I think it wholly selfish to deny it a chance at life. It would be a better argument if you had something like anencephaly, where the poor baby isn’t going to have ANY sort of life, though I have heard of couples being grateful for the little time they’ve had when carrying a child with anencephaly.

Yes, anencephaly would be a better example; but I was working with the example given by the poster. The couple may be ill-informed rather than (entirely) selfish.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Please don’t take my comment out of context. I was responding to another poster’s experience with a gay couple and a Down syndrome baby. I’m not saying I personally would do this or that a child with Down syndrome cannot lead a happy life despite their intellectual and functional limitations. However, it is conceivable to me that a couple (gay or straight) might be considering those limitations, rightly or wrongly, before bringing their child into the world, for the benefit of the child and not only, or at all, due to their own selfish concerns.

I suppose this may be the case, but it indicates some terribly misplaced priorities on the part of the couple. If they really think that a child’s life is only good to the degree that the child is smart/functional/healthy/etc., then their idea of goodness is terribly skewed. I definitely don’t think we should be defending the choice this couple makes – rather, we should be educating this couple about their own myopic views about happiness and quality of life.

 

[marymary1975]

You have got to be kidding me.

Seriously, meltzerboy, you have always struck me as intelligent, and an independent thinker, but in the above questions I feel like you have dropped all that and just bought the liberal line.

Have you ever met a child with Down’s Syndrome? These are some of the happiest, most joyful people in the world! How could you consider killing such a person out of generosity for that person? Do you really think being intelligent and functional is that important in life? I sometimes *wish *I had a child with Down’s Syndrome, because parents of such children often seem to have such a unique and beautiful perspective on life.

Please, for all our benefits, give us ONE unselfish reason that a person could have to abort a Down’s Syndrome baby.

 

[Lochias]

I know you most likely don’t believe in abortion under any circumstances, but couldn’t a couple, whether straight or gay, be thinking about aborting an unborn baby with Down’s syndrome out of concern for the baby and not for selfish reasons?

Nope. There are too many happy children and adults who operate despite the effects of Down’s syndrome in their lives and that are there for the public to see, for a couple to be able to make any sort of lame excuse to kill the baby “for its own good.”

Those kind of people are the people who refuse to open their eyes.

Or perhaps a combination of reasons? Further, are you basing your view on gay adoption and parenting on this single case alone, as if all or most gay couples think and behave alike?

No combination of reasons can ever be good enough for murder of a human being. And the information I’ve received, both first-hand and otherwise, suggests that most gay couples DO think this way. And finally, even if only one felt that way, one is too many.

 

[meltzerboy]

Nope. There are too many happy children and adults who operate despite the effects of Down’s syndrome in their lives and that are there for the public to see, for a couple to be able to make any sort of lame excuse to kill the baby “for its own good.”

Those kind of people are the people who refuse to open their eyes.

No combination of reasons can ever be good enough for murder of a human being. And the information I’ve received, both first-hand and otherwise, suggests that most gay couples DO think this way. And finally, even if only one felt that way, one is too many.

What information have you received that makes you believe that most gay couples think this way? Do you also believe that most straight couples think the same way as one another? If only one or a few gay couples think this way, then your argument about the selfishness of gay couples in general is not valid.

 

[josh987654321]

Why do you think accepting gay marriage automatically means that male-female genders are a waste of time?

Hi DaddyGirl,

May I ask you DaddyGirl, if they are equal (which is what I think they are trying to have “recognised” with same sex marriage), than why wouldn’t it be a waste of time?

I believe on a mental level, yes, they may be equivalent, but on a physical level, I think you’d have to be delusional to claim equivalence, one quick study of the genatalia (biology 101) will tell you that it’s wrong. I’m surprised that it’s the religious community that is recieving the most flak from this, as the ones who are not religious should be able to see this clearly and objectively, it’s the silence of the scientific community which is quite amazing to me.

“It’s better to be awakened by a hard truth than put to sleep by a seductive lie.” - Dr Phil

God made a variety of people in this world.

.

He made you and I too. Is everything we desire right? just because we desire something, does that make it right to act on? Does the morality of the act change simply because of our desire for it? Should we all just wrecklessly give into our every desire, throw our hands in the air and say “If God didn’t want me to do this than he wouldn’t have given me the desire to do it?”

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person.” - Pope Francis

Now if it’s treatment under the law for two fundamentally different unions which you wish to discuss than maybe we should talk about that. but the main distinction I wish to make here, is that they are not the same and to say otherwise I believe is delusional.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Lochias]

What information have you received that makes you believe that most gay couples think this way? Do you also believe that most straight couples think the same way as one another? If only one or a few gay couples think this way, then your argument about the selfishness of gay couples in general is not valid.

Anecdotal evidence, mostly, and evidence by example. The company that my friend is using to literally rent her womb to this couple’s desires was instantly ready to terminate as soon as something showed possibly amiss. That kind of unfeeling, knee-jerk response is the product of habit. They, the company and the gay couple, were pressuring her to get an abortion scheduled before conclusive tests even came back.

I don’t know how straight couples think, but straight couples who are open to life are acting towards the order that God put upon life, and therefore intrinsically have a much better chance to do what is right.

As I said, the company itself a sterling example of how the selfishness of many gay couples is advanced and carried out. These couples think “Oohh, we need a kid to be a REAL family.” Never mind what the kid will actually go through without a mother or father, regardless of how good they think they will be at parenting.

 

[CaliLobo]

I’ve posted on this topic so many times. But I’ll keep it simple and quote from a famous movie when I say:

Show me the verse, baby.

Show me the verse that says we must support gay marriage bans by law. How are gay marriage bans compatible with the idea of loving your neighbor as you love yourself?

Protestants understand this, that is why they are flexible on this issue and that is one of many reasons why many Catholics are flocking to Protestantism.

 

[josh987654321]

Could you please read this thread from page 12 and let me know what you think? especially my posts here - #168, #169

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=839054&page=12

One thing I find interesting is you say “support gay marriage bans by law” id like to ask you, what exactly are we banning?

The other thing I find interesting, is that you say “protestants understand this” now when it comes to same sex marriage, I agree, alot of them do understand this and are right on par with the Catholic Church’s view on it too, I get many of my arguments on same sex marriage from protestants on youtube.

Thank you for reading
Josh