Does anyone here, that believes in God, actually think that God accepts gay marriage?

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On second thought, I think I agree with this. But I still think the guilt Chizzywinks is feeling comes from the devil, because it seems to be drawing her away from the Church, not toward it. 🤷
The Pope speaks often about the works of the devil in our time, and that is no coincidence. The devil is nothing if not subtle, and so in these times the devil discourages all thinking that has anything subtle about it. That gives his lies very good cover. We have to be very careful, or he will paint the good into a false and unflattering corner. There are so many instances of this in our time, they can hardly be counted.
 
You’ve stated your son is gay. Of course you should accept him, as does God and the Church. Neither rejects anyone. Please say what you mean by “lifestyle”? What about it don’t you like?
I don’t like the thought of him in a relationship with another man. But he is who he is, and I love him no matter what.
 
You wouldn’t FEEL like it was the devil. The devil sounds like God. Especially for those of us, like myself, who had an inadequate father figure, the devil sounds like a dad who expects a lot of us, and won’t truly accept us until we do what he says.

But God accepts us NOW, as sinners. He died for sinners, not for saints. It is His acceptance that makes us acceptable.

So I respectfully disagree with EasterJoy. You, like me, have a dysfunctional way of relating to guilt. The guilt you are feeling is pushing you away from God, not toward Him. So you need to reject the guilt as a lie from the devil.

Of course, even then, you’re not perfect, and you need to be transformed by God. But this guilt is standing in the way of that transformation.

I know Jesus loves me, as he loves all of us. And I know that he knows what lies in my heart better than even I myself do.

Perhaps you would be interested to know that I am, in some sense, gay. That is to say, if I were not Catholic, I would call myself a gay man. I am attracted to women – heck, I married one! – but I am more viscerally attracted to men. And yet I am faithful to my wife, and we are living out a fruitful and fulfilling marriage.

For the record, I agree with Francis that the Church has not been compassionate enough and loving enough toward gay people. This shortcoming of the Church grieves me.

But I don’t believe in false compassion. I don’t believe that, when our loved ones do something we consider wrong, we either have to reject them or accept their sins. Here’s what we do have to do. We need to recognize that we ourselves have done things seriously wrong, and that we want (sometimes desperately) to do other things that are seriously wrong. We need to show them that we hate the sin in ourselves, and yet love ourselves.

You can love your son deeply, honestly, from the heart, whether or not you accept his actions. Mind you, I’m not going to sit on a soapbox and tell you that his actions are wrong. But I have seen gay culture from the inside, and I don’t really have a ringing endorsement of the role that sexual activity plays in that culture. (Aside from the sex part, I don’t have a lot bad to say about gay culture, by the way). So I just don’t think that it will be healthy or helpful, most likely, for your son to have sex with other men.

As for intimacy with other men, yes, of course your son was made for that. Every man was made to be close and intimate with other men. Your son has always needed closeness with men, even when he was a child. He needs it now more than ever. But sex will not get him that intimacy, and it very well might stand in the way.

Hope this helps. I am praying for you and your son!
Thank you!! By the way…my guilt is not pushing me from God. Not at all! But it, along with the whole gay issue, is pushing me away from the Church.
 
I don’t like the thought of him in a relationship with another man. But he is who he is, and I love him no matter what.
The idea is not that you reject him as a person, but that you treat this inclination as you would any other inclination that is against moral law. For instance, if he were in the habit of having one-night stands because he was, objectively speaking, psychologically incapable of a deeper relationship with a woman, it would be OK to be understanding about his incapacity but still correct him on how he was dealing with it.

Still, I think it is more deeply appreciated now than in past times how difficult both his situation and yours are. It is not an easy path to walk, not for either of you. It is my belief that those who walk it well will merit far greater glory than those who managed equally well under far less difficult circumstances.
 
This ^ was close to perfect too. 👍 Though I do not practice the Catholic faith. I do believe in God and in the inclusiveness and love of Jesus.
Do you not see Jesus condemning sin? Forgiving people of their sin? Telling them to sin no more? Talking about the consequences of sin? Or do you just throw out anything about Jesus you personally don’t agree with–and think he went around accepting and affirming everyone regardless of their actions? He may have called everyone (inclusiveness) but he certainly didn’t affirm everyone in all their actions. What does it mean to love someone in your thinking?

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
Still, I think it is more deeply appreciated now than in past times how difficult both his situation and yours are. It is not an easy path to walk, not for either of you. It is my belief that those who walk it well will merit far greater glory than those who managed equally well under far less difficult circumstances.
👍
 
(Boldface mine: EasterJoy)

Letter of Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Archbishop of Buenos Aires, to the Carmelite Nuns of the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires (June 22, 2010)

Dear Sisters,

I write this letter to each one of you in the four Monasteries of Buenos Aires. The Argentine people must face, in the next few weeks, a situation whose result may gravely harm the family. It is the bill on matrimony of persons of the same sex.

The identity of the family, and its survival, are in jeopardy here: father, mother, and children. The life of so many children who will be discriminated beforehand due to the lack of human maturity that God willed them to have with a father and a mother is in jeopardy. A clear rejection of the law of God, engraved in our hearts, is in jeopardy.

I recall words of Saint Thérèse when she speaks of the infirmity of her childhood. She says that the envy of the Devil tried to extort her family after her older sister joined the Carmel.** Here, the envy of the Devil, through which sin entered the world, is also present, and deceitfully intends to destroy the image of God: man and woman, who receive the mandate to grow, multiply, and conquer the earth. Let us not be naive: it is not a simple political struggle; it is an intention [which is] destructive of the plan of God. It is not a mere legislative project (this is a mere instrument), but rather a “move” of the father of lies who wishes to confuse and deceive the children of God.**

Jesus tells us that, in order to defend us from this lying accuser, he will send us the Spirit of Truth. Today, the Nation [patria], before this situation, needs the special assistance of the Holy Ghost that may place the light of Truth amid the shadows of error; it needs this Advocate who may defend us from the enchantment of so many sophisms with which this bill is being justified, and which confuse and deceive even people of good will.

That is why I turn to you and ask from you prayer and sacrifice, the two invincible weapons which Saint Thérèse confessed to have. Cry out to the Lord that he may send his Spirit to the Senators who are to place their votes. That they may not do it moved by error or by circumstantial matters, but rather according to what the natural law and the law of God tell them. Pray for them, for their families; that the Lord may visit, strengthen, and console them. Pray that they may do great good for the Nation.

This bill will be discussed in the Senate after July 13. Let us look towards Saint Joseph, to Mary, the Child, and let us ask with fervor that they will defend the Argentine family in this moment. Let us recall what God himself told his people in a time of great anguish: “this war is not yours, but God’s”. That they may succour, defend, and accompany us in this war of God.

Thank you for what you will do in this struggle for the Nation. And, please, I beg you, pray for me also. May Jesus bless you, and may the Blessed Virgin protect you.

Affectionately,

Card. Jorge Mario Bergoglio s.j., Archbishop of Buenos Aires
Hmmmm, I can’t seem to find this letter in my Bible.
 
Thank you!! By the way…my guilt is not pushing me from God. Not at all! But it, along with the whole gay issue, is pushing me away from the Church.
Listen and follow your heart Chizzy. Lots of bad stuff being thrown your way and it’s not necessarily accurate. People here have good intentions, but many times they are just wrong.

👍
 
Listen and follow your heart Chizzy. Lots of bad stuff being thrown your way and it’s not necessarily accurate. People here have good intentions, but many times they are just wrong.

👍
We need some sort of standard for determining when a person is wrong. That standard is the Church.

To the degree that someone agrees with the teachings of Christ is the degree to which he is correct. To the degree that someone disagrees with the teachings of Christ is the degree to which she is wrong.

Otherwise, when someone states, “I don’t agree with Christ on…[fill in the blank]” she is simply creating a religion after her own image, not after God’s.
 
There is more hatred, judgement, arrogance, and intolerance in this “group” than any I have ever seen. Thank the Lord in Heaven this forum is NOT the “all knowing high and mighty know it alls” they think they are. Instead of preaching love, tolerance, acceptance, forgiveness and kindness, an unknowing person reading this would think Catholics are a group of zealous hate mongers saying “Do it MY way or you are just WRONG”. This forum/website makes me very sad for my religion.
Where is your tolerance exhibited in this post? Does your love, tolerance, acceptance and kindness extend to molestation of children or are you intolerant of child molestation? Does you tolerance extend to all actions or only to those actions you deem acceptable? Just trying to understand what you mean by tolerance because I have a hard time believing that you are tolerant and loving toward everything --well at least everything other than the posters on these forums.

Would you care to show us where the Lord preached tolerance and acceptance? I don’t see him preaching acceptance of sins–such as adultry, but rather I see him forgiving sinners – those who seek his mercy. I don’t see Jesus saying, “Hey your sin is no big deal, no need to repent, just go on and do what you want.”

Is it intolerant to debate if something is a sin? Is it intolerant to declare ones belief that something is sin? How is this hateful? Are we now no longer allowed to believe anything is wrong without being accussed of being intolerant and hateful?

What is sad for our faith is that so many who profess it appear to believe that sin is dead and that we can live how we want, rather than how God wants us to live, and that there will be no eternal consequences for our sin.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
Lets say my son sleeps with multiple women because it makes him happy. Which I’m sure giving into his passions does make him happy for that paricular moment. That still does not make it ok. God gave us laws and sent his Son for our protection and to speak the Truth. He established the Church to guard the Truth. Heck, I would like to go around doing what feels good to me but I love God and my Faith. I understand the impotance of obedience and prayer to calm our unruly passions. Just as your son may have gay tendencies, my son has heterosexual tendencies. My son going around and havi g sexual relations with women outside of marriage is a mortal sin. He is expected to remain abstinent. I’ve made mistakes myself but thanks be to God, he gave us the Church and the sacrament of reconciliation and sanctifying grace. Prayer, repentence, and the sacraments can eliminate sin and unruly passions, but it’s a matter of putting your trust in God and practicing your faith every single day. A clean soul and regular reception of the Eucharist allows the Holy Spirit to work in each one of us and put to rest our sin of the flesh
 
Listen and follow your heart Chizzy. Lots of bad stuff being thrown your way and it’s not necessarily accurate. People here have good intentions, but many times they are just wrong.

👍
Nice screen name…does it have any special significance for you? :rolleyes:
 
Hmmmm, I can’t seem to find this letter in my Bible.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”* Matt. 16:18-19

Unlike the kosher laws, you’ll also not find a word anywhere in the Bible that either the Lord or the early Church did not maintain the sexual mores from Leviticus, in which it was declared abominable that a male lie with another male as if with a woman.

It certainly is not true that the early Church did not care what sort of morals Christians lived by: These people are waterless springs and mists driven by a gale; for them the gloom of darkness has been reserved. For, talking empty bombast, they seduce with licentious desires of the flesh those who have barely escaped from people who live in error. They promise them freedom, though they themselves are slaves of corruption, for a person is a slave of whatever overcomes him. For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of [our] Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them. What is expressed in the true proverb has happened to them, “The dog returns to its own vomit,” and “A bathed sow returns to wallowing in the mire.” 2 Pet. 2:17-22
 
Hmmmm, I can’t seem to find this letter in my Bible.
*The Letter of Jude

Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ and brother of James, to those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept safe for Jesus Christ: may mercy, peace, and love be yours in abundance.

Beloved, although I was making every effort to write to you about our common salvation, I now feel a need to write to encourage you to contend for the faith that was once for all handed down to the holy ones. For there have been some intruders, who long ago were designated for this condemnation, godless persons, who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

I wish to remind you, although you know all things, that [the] Lord who once saved a people from the land of Egypt later destroyed those who did not believe. The angels too, who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains, in gloom, for the judgment of the great day. Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Similarly, these dreamers nevertheless also defile the flesh, scorn lordship, and revile glorious beings. Yet the archangel Michael, when he argued with the devil in a dispute over the body of Moses, did not venture to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him but said, “May the Lord rebuke you!" But these people revile what they do not understand and are destroyed by what they know by nature like irrational animals. Woe to them! They followed the way of Cain, abandoned themselves to Balaam’s error for the sake of gain, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted. They are like wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shameless deeds, wandering stars for whom the gloom of darkness has been reserved forever.

Enoch, of the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied also about them when he said, "Behold, the Lord has come with his countless holy ones to execute judgment on all and to convict everyone for all the godless deeds that they committed and for all the harsh words godless sinners have uttered against him.” These people are complainers, disgruntled ones who live by their desires; their mouths utter bombast as they fawn over people to gain advantage.

But you, beloved, remember the words spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, for they told you, “In [the] last time there will be scoffers who will live according to their own godless desires.” These are the ones who cause divisions; they live on the natural plane, devoid of the Spirit. But you, beloved, build yourselves up in your most holy faith; pray in the holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in the love of God and wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. On those who waver, have mercy; save others by snatching them out of the fire; on others have mercy with fear, abhorring even the outer garment stained by the flesh.

To the one who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished and exultant, in the presence of his glory, to the only God, our savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord be glory, majesty, power, and authority from ages past, now, and for ages to come. Amen.*

The New Testament does not encourage us to look for teachers who have become “enlightened” beyond the teachings of the Apostles, but rather warns us against them in the strictest of terms. In every case where a Mosaic law was set aside, as with the dietary laws and circumcision, it was the Apostles who declared it, not some other outside party who declared it to the Apostles. Therefore, those who come preaching “new freedom” from the laws of self-mastery ought to be rejected as instead selling us into enslavement. We must reject them, rather than rejecting the faith as has been handed down from the Apostles.
 
I don’t like the thought of him in a relationship with another man. But he is who he is, and I love him no matter what.
As his mother, I hope you love him no matter what - I believe you do, and will. As does God. You do not need to be happy with everything he might do. If he does wrong, it may be appropriate for you to express your view, as you say you’ve done. This is all good.

Clearly, you want your son to be happy, and it would be very hard for you (I imagine) to seek to deny him what he says will make him happy, or even to acknowledge that that very thing may be wrong.

He does not choose to be attracted to men; but he may choose to follow that attraction or try to resist. A bit like the “proverbial” college student who may be drawn to sleep around on Saturday nights, and can follow that inclination, or resist it. But the challenge for the gay person is even harder, since there is not even the chance for a “proper” or broadly accepted relationship (marriage) by waiting for “the right person to come along”. Nevertheless, in both scenarios, the “right” course is to try and resist. From what you’ve said, I believe you would prefer that too, but then the challenge is to find happiness. Maybe that is something your son needs help with? Of course, he would have to want to try.

Has you son entered into a relationship, which he intends to be permanent?
 
As his mother, I hope you love him no matter what - I believe you do, and will. As does God. You do not need to be happy with everything he might do. If he does wrong, it may be appropriate for you to express your view, as you say you’ve done. This is all good.

Clearly, you want your son to be happy, and it would be very hard for you (I imagine) to seek to deny him what he says will make him happy, or even to acknowledge that that very thing may be wrong.

He does not choose to be attracted to men; but he may choose to follow that attraction or try to resist. A bit like the “proverbial” college student who may be drawn to sleep around on Saturday nights, and can follow that inclination, or resist it. But the challenge for the gay person is even harder, since there is not even the chance for a “proper” or broadly accepted relationship (marriage) by waiting for “the right person to come along”. Nevertheless, in both scenarios, the “right” course is to try and resist. From what you’ve said, I believe you would prefer that too, but then the challenge is to find happiness. Maybe that is something your son needs help with? Of course, he would have to want to try.

Has you son entered into a relationship, which he intends to be permanent?
He has been seeing someone for several months now and they plan in moving in together.
 
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