Does anyone here, that believes in God, actually think that God accepts gay marriage?

[EasterJoy]

Source???

(Boldface mine: EasterJoy)

Letter of Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Archbishop of Buenos Aires, to the Carmelite Nuns of the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires (June 22, 2010)

Dear Sisters,

I write this letter to each one of you in the four Monasteries of Buenos Aires. The Argentine people must face, in the next few weeks, a situation whose result may gravely harm the family. It is the bill on matrimony of persons of the same sex.

The identity of the family, and its survival, are in jeopardy here: father, mother, and children. The life of so many children who will be discriminated beforehand due to the lack of human maturity that God willed them to have with a father and a mother is in jeopardy. A clear rejection of the law of God, engraved in our hearts, is in jeopardy.

I recall words of Saint Thérèse when she speaks of the infirmity of her childhood. She says that the envy of the Devil tried to extort her family after her older sister joined the Carmel.** Here, the envy of the Devil, through which sin entered the world, is also present, and deceitfully intends to destroy the image of God: man and woman, who receive the mandate to grow, multiply, and conquer the earth. Let us not be naive: it is not a simple political struggle; it is an intention [which is] destructive of the plan of God. It is not a mere legislative project (this is a mere instrument), but rather a “move” of the father of lies who wishes to confuse and deceive the children of God.**

Jesus tells us that, in order to defend us from this lying accuser, he will send us the Spirit of Truth. Today, the Nation [patria], before this situation, needs the special assistance of the Holy Ghost that may place the light of Truth amid the shadows of error; it needs this Advocate who may defend us from the enchantment of so many sophisms with which this bill is being justified, and which confuse and deceive even people of good will.

That is why I turn to you and ask from you prayer and sacrifice, the two invincible weapons which Saint Thérèse confessed to have. Cry out to the Lord that he may send his Spirit to the Senators who are to place their votes. That they may not do it moved by error or by circumstantial matters, but rather according to what the natural law and the law of God tell them. Pray for them, for their families; that the Lord may visit, strengthen, and console them. Pray that they may do great good for the Nation.

This bill will be discussed in the Senate after July 13. Let us look towards Saint Joseph, to Mary, the Child, and let us ask with fervor that they will defend the Argentine family in this moment. Let us recall what God himself told his people in a time of great anguish: “this war is not yours, but God’s”. That they may succour, defend, and accompany us in this war of God.

Thank you for what you will do in this struggle for the Nation. And, please, I beg you, pray for me also. May Jesus bless you, and may the Blessed Virgin protect you.

Affectionately,

Card. Jorge Mario Bergoglio s.j., Archbishop of Buenos Aires

 

[Sy_Noe]

This is perfect.

I think it is presumptuous to believe we know the mind of God. As biblical scholarship becomes more and more reliable and advanced. it casts a lot of doubt on the meaning of some of the translations we have used to base Church doctrine on. In the New Testament, the word in Greek that is often translated as “homosexuality” was actually not a contemporary word used to describe that. If Paul was writing to a contemporary audience, it would make sense that he use well established words to refer to homosexual acts rather than use one of ambiguous meaning. A number of modern scholars believe the original word “arsenokoites” was probably a reference to shrine prostitution or the ritualistic use of sex for worship, something which was not uncommon in Corinth in those days.

The Church is a living things and we can only hope that she will grow in Her perfection and unity with God. As we become more enlightened, it is important to remember that we are imperfect humans with limited understanding. God made us Man and Woman because that is the natural order of life. That, however, does not mean that anything outside of that is a sin. We must always remember to be kind to others and leave the judgement up to God. Jesus never spoke directly on the subject so it’s probably best to avoid casting stones at others.

This ^ was close to perfect too. Though I do not practice the Catholic faith. I do believe in God and in the inclusiveness and love of Jesus.

 

[JimG]

God is love, that is true. And like a parent who loves a child, love does not mean that everything is permitted. Parents set boundaries for their children to guide and protect them.

Jesus was a Jew. There was nothing in the Jewish moral law that even remotely approached approval of same sex marriage. The Christian moral code, with its roots in the Jewish moral code, the teaching of Jesus, and the New Testament, views marriage as by nature and divine command as between man and woman. To think that new constructs in biblical analysis will somehow overturn that consensus is nothing but a fantasy.

(Of course, human anatomy and biology have not changed either. Man and woman are still sexually complementary, naturally capable of marital union. Same sex couples are not. That will not change.)

 

[EasterJoy]

This is perfect.

I think it is presumptuous to believe we know the mind of God. As biblical scholarship becomes more and more reliable and advanced. it casts a lot of doubt on the meaning of some of the translations we have used to base Church doctrine on. In the New Testament, the word in Greek that is often translated as “homosexuality” was actually not a contemporary word used to describe that. If Paul was writing to a contemporary audience, it would make sense that he use well established words to refer to homosexual acts rather than use one of ambiguous meaning. A number of modern scholars believe the original word “arsenokoites” was probably a reference to shrine prostitution or the ritualistic use of sex for worship, something which was not uncommon in Corinth in those days.

The Church is a living things and we can only hope that she will grow in Her perfection and unity with God. As we become more enlightened, it is important to remember that we are imperfect humans with limited understanding. God made us Man and Woman because that is the natural order of life. That, however, does not mean that anything outside of that is a sin. We must always remember to be kind to others and leave the judgement up to God. Jesus never spoke directly on the subject so it’s probably best to avoid casting stones at others.

“As we become more enlightened…”? More enlightened than whom?

Are you saying that it is presumptuous to think the Church can know the difference between right and wrong, so that the Church cannot objectively know and therefore cannot definitively teach what is and is not a sin?

I wonder what those scholars make of this passage: “You certainly will not die! God knows well that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, who know good and evil.”

 

[Lochias]

A book written 2000 years ago.

History, tradition, logic, reason, nature, as well as God’s word both written and passed on through man, and directly.

People who are okay with denying all of that are free to do so; you can lead a horse to water, yadda yadda.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

You don’t have to imagine it at all, it’s written down in the Bible, black-and-white. Also, you know, thousands of years of history, logic, reason and theology tell us that homosexual acts and “gay marriage” are inherently sinful and disordered.

Who’s having to imagine any of it?

Well I have an easy time imagining being told that. Just a tough time imagining it being true.

 

[EasterJoy]

Well I have an easy time imagining being told that. Just a tough time imagining it being true.

OK, but what we will believe is our choice, our decision. Otherwise, there could be no merit in believing or not believing anything. How else could the Lord have said “Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believe”?

If it comes down to a difference between what the Church teaches is right and what seems right to you, which do you choose to believe?

 

[Slaney]

God and sin & Heaven are in-compatible…so no !

 

[MJCamp]

Sexual relations outside of the sacrament of matrimony is called adultery. It’s a direct violation of God’s commandments. Whether heterosexual or homosexual act, we are taught it is wrong. Although I am heterosexual, I cannot go about and have sexual relations with any one of my choosing unless I want to put my soul at risk. In order to cleanse these short comings we must go to the sacrament of reconciliation and repent of these sins. If I had homosexual tendences it is no different. With the grace of God, I am expected to remain abstinent.

 

[Rau]

AMEN! Happiness and love are hard to find these days, and if someone happens to find it with a person of the same sex, then so be it. I am seriously beginning to doubt that, despite being a baptized Catholic, I’m really a Catholic. How can I be if I don’t disapprove of gay marriage?!?!

Hey, whatever bring happiness MUST be ok! Right?

 

[EasterJoy]

AMEN! Happiness and love are hard to find these days, and if someone happens to find it with a person of the same sex, then so be it. I am seriously beginning to doubt that, despite being a baptized Catholic, I’m really a Catholic. How can I be if I don’t disapprove of gay marriage?!?!

It is hardly impossible for a Catholic to have an incorrectly-formed conscience. As for choosing even what we know to be wrong because it is pleasurable or to be apathetic about whether others are pursuing the deceits of the evil one instead of the ways of eternal life, well, a Catholic is capable of that, too. That is why we have confession.

 

[PRmerger]

We must always remember to be kind to others and leave the judgement up to God.

Judgement, as far as one’s eternal destination, is, of course, the purview of God.

However, judgement, as in “discernment”, is our duty and obligation as rational, human creatures.

We MUST judge, or we will be duped by the Author of Lies.

As such, when given the revelation of God, as well as reason, we can see that gay marriage is contrary to the moral order. It is wrong and we ought not tolerate it.

Jesus never spoke directly on the subject so it’s probably best to avoid casting stones at others.

This is a peculiar and arbitrary criterion for Christians to use. No reasonable Catholic would ever declare that our moral compass be directed only by the words Jesus “spoke directly”.

 

[NeedsMercy]

Why did you start a thread specifically seeking an argument? I mean really, you posted a thread that lacked any substance, it was just a challenge to other Catholics to debate with you. Aren’t there enough contentious threads on this site without trying to instigate another?

Agree totally. Deliberately baiting people into arguments is hateful, and probably sinful.

 

[pete_29]

Agree totally. Deliberately baiting people into arguments is hateful, and probably sinful.

Assuming that someone is deliberately baiting people into arguments is a sin. However, I forgive you.

 

[EasterJoy]

Why did you start a thread specifically seeking an argument? I mean really, you posted a thread that lacked any substance, it was just a challenge to other Catholics to debate with you. Aren’t there enough contentious threads on this site without trying to instigate another?

Exactly what is wrong with looking for a debate when not a soul in the universe is compelled to take the bait? Those with no interest in a debate were quite free to ignore it.

 

[PRmerger]

Assuming that someone is deliberately baiting people into arguments is a sin. However, I forgive you.

 

[Chizzywinks]

There is more hatred, judgement, arrogance, and intolerance in this “group” than any I have ever seen. Thank the Lord in Heaven this forum is NOT the “all knowing high and mighty know it alls” they think they are. Instead of preaching love, tolerance, acceptance, forgiveness and kindness, an unknowing person reading this would think Catholics are a group of zealous hate mongers saying “Do it MY way or you are just WRONG”. This forum/website makes me very sad for my religion.

 

[PRmerger]

There is more hatred, judgement, arrogance, and intolerance in this “group” than any I have ever seen.

And yet here you are judging and demonstrating intolerance, Chizzy.

Why do you reserve for yourself what you object to in others?

 

[OurLadyPray4US]

Why did you start a thread specifically seeking an argument? I mean really, you posted a thread that lacked any substance, it was just a challenge to other Catholics to debate with you. Aren’t there enough contentious threads on this site without trying to instigate another?

The title of the thread is a bit provocative, but the OP makes a crisp logical point.

This could be used to teach children as young as 6 to 8 years old about marriage. Tell them the creation story of Genesis, and how God created us as male and female, Adam and Eve, and how men marry women, because we have been created by God this way.

 

[OurLadyPray4US]

As I think about it, this could be the real sexual education for young children.

Not that **** the government is trying to teach to 6-year olds, about the little penguin with two daddies.