Does Church Militant represent a small % of Catholics?

[ChristMyLife]

think the point is that familiarity with Church Militant just gives a very obvious different vibe then the kind of Catholicism represented by Christ, the saints, the church, etc. It’s just a very different thing. And that’s why it’s frustrating when people can’t seem to differentiate between groups like CM and real Catholicism.

An astute observation.

You are not far from the Kingdom of God, Deo Gratias!

 

[0331]

Really?

I don’t watch much CM but I did listen to Matt Fradd interview Voris. I don’t think Voris is self-righteous or a Pharisee at all. He admittedly lived an promiscuous early life. He openly admits this. I think a Pharisee would act as if they were clean their entire life.

His methods are on the other end of the spectrum across from accompaniment. But I do recall Jesus accompanied people AND told them outright ‘Repent and believe the gospel’ and rebuked his apostles for their lack of faith, and rebuked this godless, perverse generation. Charity is doing both, isn’t it?

 

[yankeesouth]

He puts a large focus on LGBT issues

Our Lady said the final battle will be the attack on the family and it sure looks like the ‘family’ is being attacked. There are different fronts in this battle as depicted in the five Catholic non negotiables. Nothing wrong with focusing a ministry on one aspect. Church Militant chooses to focus on homosexuality and God’s plan for marriage. Others focus on fighting the pro abortion faction, etc.

 

[ChristMyLife]

Fradd interview Voris. I don’t think Voris is self-righteous or a Pharisee at all. He admittedly lived an promiscuous early life. He openly

I never meant to say Voris is a pharisee, but rather that he acts the part and promotes phariseeism in the Church. Of course he could always deepen his faith and humility and turn away from such phariseeism.

I can comiserate with him to a degree - by the grace of God he was saved from a destructive lifestyle and brought into the Church. But he’s gone to the opposite extreme and embraced a sort of intolerant religious fundamentalism. I hope his faith matures and he grows out of this.

 

[phil19034]

1. Most Catholics are not like them
2. while they sometimes have good stories and sometimes do good work, they are often very negative and frankly not very constructive. They tend to take the view that ALL BISHOPS are corrupt. I consider them the conservative dissent version of the liberal, dissent National Catholic Reporter. So you have the National Catholic Reporter on the dissent left and Church Militant on the dissent right.
3. they have been rebuked by the Church. Their name used to be Real Catholic TV, and they lost the right to use the name Catholic.

NOW: with all this said, there are a number of good Catholics who do read/watch their materials. They accept the good and discard the bad. Just like there are a number of good Catholics who do the same thing with the National Catholic Reporter, Commonweal, and/or America Magazine

I hope this helps, God Bless

 

[ChristMyLife]

rebuked this godless, perverse generation. Charity is doing both, isn’t it?

For Jesus, yes. For us, no.

I don’t think going around “rebuking the godless and perverse generation” is what we’re called to do. I believe we’re called to be totally uncondemning, unconditionally loving, entirely non-judgmental, infinitely mercifull, boundlessly humble and gratuitously gracious.

 

[RealisticCatholic]

I don’t see how homosexuality “attacks the family” when same-sex oriented people are likely not to enter into traditional marriages anyway. Even if same-sex marriage were not legal in the US., most people wouldn’t want a homosexual to marry a woman, after all.

But I do get your point.

Still, I’m not so sure if it’s what Mary had in mind. Or if it’s even what Michael Voris has in mind. Either way, charity includes compassion! Not merely shooting out doctrine or going after people in hateful ways.

 

[0331]

Please explain what you mean by ‘Phariseeism.’

It needs to be defined before you go accusing people of it. The Pharisees hated Jesus and had him arrested and killed. They denied he was the Messiah, among other things. I do not think Voris hates Jesus or is promoting such a thing.

 

[0331]

You can admonish the sinner without condemning them. Rebuking someone is good for their well-being. I say this as someone who’s been lovingly but sternfully rebuked many times.

The Scriptures are full of examples of charitably admonishing and rebuking others. Proverbs, in particular, makes it known we are to correct each other. Rebuking is not judging. Judging is saying ‘You are going to Hell.’ Judging is not saying ‘X behavior is a sin.’ Whatever that practice or behavior may be.

It is a work of mercy to admonish one another. Mercy is not ‘always being nice.’

 

[phil19034]

I don’t see how homosexuality “attacks the family” when same-sex oriented people are likely not to enter into traditional marriages anyway. Even if same-sex marriage were not legal in the US., most people wouldn’t want a homosexual to marry a woman, after all.

Homosexuality isn’t an attack on the family. Same sex marriage is. The reason is because same-sex marriage is a legal recognition that society is losing/lost the meaning of marriage.

The fundamental purpose of marriage is the creation of human life. It’s not primarily about the happiness of spouses. Same sex couples cannot create life.

The other issue with same-sex marriage is that it (along with things like legal abortion, legal euthanasia, etc) legalize sin. When people (esp young people) see sin a legal, they start to believe that it must not really be wrong, otherwise it wouldn’t be legal.

So that negatively affects the family because it interferes and conflicts with a parent teaching traditional values to their children.

So again: it’s not homosexuality itself. But the legalization of same-sex marriage, which is proof that society has lost understanding on what marriage and family truly are… NOTE: and all of this started with society becoming comfortable with a 50% divorce rate.

 

[RealisticCatholic]

I still wonder who Church Militant is actually affecting with their methods.

Do you think they are bringing any of their “targets” to conversion (at least according to the ones they think need conversion)? Do you think they are bringing anyone into a deeper, more loving relationship with God and neighbor?

Is there evidence CM is bringing anyone closer to Christ and into the Church?

 

[RealisticCatholic]

I do understand that.

And i’m glad you point out the other underlying factors, like divorce. Homosexual marriage is a symptom, as you suggest. But it’s hardly the chief problem.

And that’s my point when it comes to Church Militant in particular: I don’t think it makes sense to say CM and Voris are focusing on “LGBT” because of the “final attack on the family” warning given by a Marian apparition.

I won’t hypothesize as to why it’s so focused on. Perhaps it’s a lot of different factors. My main concern is their method and approach. it’s one that scandalizes my own faith.

And, my last point would be same-sex marriages are just not that prevalent. We may talk about it or hear about it a lot. But we simply have bigger fish to fry, even when it comes to bolstering marriage in particular.

 

[OnAJourney]

As an LGBT individual that’s on the path to joining the Church that is pretty awful to hear.

 

[MiserereMei25]

…just ignore them and live as a true Catholic the best you know how? That way you won’t be so angry. Righteous anger is good as long as it causes you witness to the truth by your life and actions.

 

[phil19034]

I still wonder who Church Militant is actually affecting with their methods.

Do you think they are bringing any of their “targets” to conversion (at least according to the ones they think need conversion)? Do you think they are bringing anyone into a deeper, more loving relationship with God and neighbor?

Is there evidence CM is bringing anyone closer to Christ and into the Church?

Their target are the bishops. They are trying to influence Catholics to rise up and apply pressure against their bishops.

After the McCarrick scandal broke and the continuous news that keeps coming out about Cardinals Wurel, Cupich, and Tobin - more an more Catholics are starting to believe that Church Militant is right about the amount of corruption among the Bishops.

Personally, when I read their stuff, I do so with a grain of salt. Because I consider my archbishop - Chaput to be a good Bishop, and Church Militant will bash him too.

Again, their issue is that all bishops are corrupt until they are 100% willing to stop protecting the bad ones (which is a view that more and more Catholics are starting to accept, even some bishops).

God Bless

 

[RealisticCatholic]

If it wasn’t so scandalizing to my own faith, perhaps I’d say something else.

But no, these kinds of things really CAN shake one’s faith. It’s disheartening, for sure.

That’s a reason why I started this thread, and it has helped me to see other people who think like me and realize that Church Militant is NOT mainstream.

Keep following Christ. I won’t pretend that it’s not hard to get past the feelings with this kind of thing. But eventually, it fades away. Still with Catholic friends. Stick with the true vicar of Christ, Pope Francis, not Michael Voris. Stay close to the Gospels.

 

[0331]

I can only speak for myself and from what I heard in Voris’ interivew.

In my recent experience, it seems as if sin and morality has been not spoken of much in the Church, or when it is spoken about it’s more gray than black and white. CM takes a very black and white approach. It may not work for everyone but it does for me—but I can’t be the only one out there who finds it easy to relativise my own actions according to the gray lens of the culture. So I happen to appreciate the black and white approach.

(Does that make sense? It did in my head but O can explain better if needed!)

 

[Sarcelle]

I looked at their videos and I get the attitude that the Pharisees have exhibited, the “Thank God, I am not like any of these” attitude.

I have never heard of them but checked them out.

This will be the last time I will do it.

 

[Wampa]

I don’t think Voris is self-righteous or a Pharisee at all. He admittedly lived an promiscuous early life. He openly admits this. I think a Pharisee would act as if they were clean their entire life.

Although it’s worth noting that he was forced to reveal his previously sinful life. For years, he made a one of the focuses of his apostolate a hardline stance against LGBT concerns, while concealing that he himself had previously lived a promiscuous, homosexual lifestyle. He only became open about it when it was clear that the NY archdiocese was going to release the info.

So in a sense, he was content to “act as if they were clean his entire life” to his viewers until the issue was forced and he had no choice but to acknowledge it.

For me, focusing on the hardline stance against LGBT concerns with simultaneously concealing the most relevant facts about your life leads to a significant credibility hit.

I will give him credit for being up front about it now and the impact it has had on his spiritual development. But new Catholics (as we have on this thread) should be aware that he targeted LGBT issues for years without revealing the most crucial details about where he was coming from.

 

[RealisticCatholic]

For me, focusing on the hardline stance against LGBT concerns with simultaneously concealing the most relevant facts about your life leads to a significant credibility hit.

That’s what I was wondering too.