There is so much wriggling that needs to be done to make the BOM “work”. It doesn’t matter if they didn’t fight directly on the hill, if there was a battle, I’m pretty sure some kind of archeological evidence would have been discovered in the 1,625 years there have been to discover said artifacts.
Why do you need to complicate the whole Moroni with the gold plates deal? How many hills are there called Cumorah? You have to assume (hope) that there is some other hill out there called Cumorah so that you can say, “It’s impossible to know where to excavate.” One question that I’m sure you get a lot, if these gold plates were so important, why didn’t God want everyone to see them? I mean, He makes His will known through your current prophets, correct? Why would he not want everyone to be able to see His supreme will as dictated through the plates that the BOM supposedly came from? I find that hard to believe.
Also one more thing, what do you mean that Moroni could have moved the plates anytime as a resurrected being? Are you saying he had some kind of magical teleportation powers or are you saying he could just walk a very long distance?
Why not? There was nothing resembling current or even the 19th century New York in 385 AD, all of the area around them would have been “country,” I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
Zach Dunn,
First of all, I might as well get to a direct point that is central to this whole set of questions. You asked why “didn’t God want everyone to see them.” For anyone to think that an infinitely intelligent Person would not have a testing process that was not merely, “let’s see if you will obey Me if I give you every possible evidence that you could want and then see if you will obey My will” seems amazing to me (sorry if that fits anyone). (No, I’m not speaking for God–I am merely saying in mortal words that God would have higher plans in His plan than such an obviously wrong concept of testing as that.)
Here we read all through the epistles in the New Testament that God wants humankind to have spiritual knowledge, and does not want that knowledge to have come the same way as mortal wisdom of man comes–yet why would one then believe that God makes an about-face and provides humanly devised and humanly valued and recognized “proof” (evidence) about the sacredness and truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Why would God thus do exactly what He said through the Apostle Paul should not be looked for? We are talking about the most intelligent Being in the universe, of course. Any school teacher could see that devising a test for “students” that involves figuring out whom one can trust intimately with absolutely no question of their values, motives, intents, desires, and future path, would mean devising a test does not provide obvious answers especially when the test is about how much faith a person is willing to show in their belief in Christ.
That being said, one such as yourself with your clear objections to the kind of faith required to read the Book of Mormon with an open and sensitive heart, has your answer already, and it is that you have what you want and God gave it to you–a completely reasonable approach to not even seriously considering the subject. That is step one of the “test”.
As to artifacts, I have been told there were artifacts around upstate New York involving Ancient Americans (Indians), but I haven’t seen any myself nor do I care about whether there were or weren’t.
Following a prophet is always a question of the faith of the person doing the hearing.
As to what a hill is “named”, I hope you’re not really asking if the Nephites could have named another hill somewhere else a name such as Cumorah. Surely you’re not thinking that just because there is a “Hill Cumorah” in upstate New York, there can’t be another hill that a group of people named “Cumorah” in their lingo. Do you know how many U.S. cities have exactly the same name, but are in different states? Do you realize that a U.S. city can have the same name as a city in England? 'Same goes for hills.
The “supreme will” idea may seem reasonable to you, but the Bible already gives humankind God’s “supreme will”. The Book of Mormon has a different purpose than that, so if that is all one wants, then they have what they want in the Bible and should read it.
A resurrected being such as Moroni could certainly move about in the world with heavenly speed, and carry something with them if there is a divine purpose for that.
As to the words “escaped into the south countries”, you will notice the plural of “countries” rather than a singular “country”. It may or may not mean all places south–it may mean there was an understood geographical separation between the “north countries” and the “south countries”.
I honestly suggest that one such as yourself is wasting time even thinking about the Book of Mormon. It does not match the intent of your heart, so it would seem wiser to go with what is going to bring you personal meaning in your own life, and follow Christ in the way that makes sense to you. I think there would be too large of a set of challenges to overcome were you to gain a serious interest in the Book of Mormon. That does not mean anything about your own faith or serious desire to follow God’s will. It just means you already have what you sincerely want, evidently, and if you study the Bible and live its teachings that will lead you to much peace and joy in your life.
