Does Donald Trump hate the poor?

[buffalo]

2433 Access to employment and to professions must be open to all without unjust discrimination: men and women, healthy and disabled, natives and immigrants.219 For its part society should, according to circumstances, help citizens find work and employment.220

[2434](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2434.htm’) A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice.221 In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. "Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good."222 Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.

2435 Recourse to a strike is morally legitimate when it cannot be avoided, or at least when it is necessary to obtain a proportionate benefit. It becomes morally unacceptable when accompanied by violence, or when objectives are included that are not directly linked to working conditions or are contrary to the common good.

2436 It is unjust not to pay the social security contributions required by legitimate authority.

Unemployment almost always wounds its victim’s dignity and threatens the equilibrium of his life. Besides the harm done to him personally, it entails many risks for his family.223

 

[PetraG]

Charity begets gratitude, government check arriving in the mail begets expectations.

What is your evidence for that?
I ask because a lot of local charities screen people who say they are in need through the local county social services so that the charities won’t be scammed by people who are quite willing to abuse the trust of the charitable as much as they are willing to abuse the trust of anybody else.

 

[PetraG]

I only described what is, I never said it was necessary that it be that way. Of course, fixing the issue is more complicated than “just pay everybody a dignified wage” (whatever that is in dollars and cents). Every choice has consequences, and each individual (and society as a whole) has to decide whether the consequences are tolerable.

I totally agree that there is not just one way to get to a point where people have a reasonably secure life if they find steady work. For instance, if people below a certain income are covered by government insurance, it isn’t just “welfare” for low-income people. It becomes in effect a way to level the playing field for businesses who want to make sure their employees have that security with businesses who really don’t bother to care about anything but how to get the work done and what it costs to get it done. It also allows businesses to provide jobs with a lower bottom line because they don’t have to factor health care into the cost of labor. So yes, there isn’t just one way or one issue in all of this.

 

[mythbuster1]

No, but that doesn’t mean the poor would be better for it. High taxes and expensive regulations wind up killing jobs and driving up prices while wages stagnate for those they purport to help. President Trump’s economic policies are driving unemployment to record lows, with wages growing fastest at the bottom of the income distribution, while inflation and interest rates remain low. When I visited my parents, I saw ads at the grocery store offering bonuses for new full-time hires or conversions to full-time from part-time. When there are more jobs than people to fill them, employers have no choice but to pay people what they’re worth, because if they don’t, their employees will quit and go work for someone who will pay them what they’re worth (or go into business for themselves). Free market economics may not be nice, but I know of nothing more effective at fighting poverty than capitalism.

And why should non-citizens be entitled to welfare benefits? Supporting the whole world would overwhelm even our vast means. If you’re so concerned about poor immigrants, have you sponsored any? Immigrants should support themselves or turn to their sponsors for aid, like my grandparents did. For those truly fleeing for their lives, it is reasonable that we give them six months to get settled, but after that they need to support themselves or rely on their religious/ethnic community.

 

[mythbuster1]

It’s sad that this Pope leaves so much to be desired. To demand that countries raise taxes to support immigrants while misappropriating Peter’s Pence is hypocrisy. To praise China’s implementation of Catholic Social Teaching while Catholic parishes are being demolished and clergy and laymen alike thrown in prison is absurd.

 

[PetraG]

Just recently refuses to allow people into the country unless they have enough money.

So much for

“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

For those without money, it looks like Donald Trump’s America is all Wall and no Door.

It’s sad that this Pope leaves so much to be desired. To demand that countries raise taxes to support immigrants while misappropriating Peter’s Pence is hypocrisy. To praise China’s implementation of Catholic Social Teaching while Catholic parishes are being demolished and clergy and laymen alike thrown in prison is absurd.

Let’s not pretend that this was invented by Pope Francis:
Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me. Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

We rightly care about pro-life issues and we cannot give up on caring about preventing abortions, but the care of immigrants and the poor are not presented in the Gospels as venial sin matters, either.

 

[mythbuster1]

How is requiring that immigrants not be a public charge abusing the poor? If anything, allowing people to immigrate and go on welfare immediately abuses the poor by overwhelming the safety net. The public charge rule in no way precludes those who come seeking work or who will be supported by family.

 

[mythbuster1]

It is estimated that the work done by machines is comparable to each citizen having 150 slaves at their disposal. It is the automation of menial tasks that has enabled the dramatic increase in standards of living from the day laborer to the executive.

 

[PetraG]

How is requiring that immigrants not be a public charge abusing the poor? If anything, allowing people to immigrate and go on welfare immediately abuses the poor by overwhelming the safety net. The public charge rule in no way precludes those who come seeking work or who will be supported by family.

I think you are mistaken. The rules are expanding the standards that can be used to exclude someone who is low- or moderate-income from getting a green card. It is placing more hurdles in the way of legal immigration. So much for the “big beautiful door.” No, Donald Trump’s door is getting more narrow, not more beautiful.

Are green cards only for models and chain migration only OK for the rich?

The President says he loves rich and poor alike, but somehow it is the rich who are somehow getting more of the breaks. Can you explain that? “Doesn’t get it” is the most charitable I can come up with.

“SEND, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. "KEEP your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these others, the proud, the wealthy, the powerful to me,
I lift my lamp, but I’m expect to see gold flashed at the door!"

 

[Kindnessmatters]

I believe he loves people and hates poverty…the condition, not the person suffering. As Catholics we should not have so much difficulty seeing how this could be true. It is not such a leap from loving sinners and hating sin.

More jobs, less people on wellfare, less people depending on food stamps…higher wages.

 

[MarkRome]

For the labor unions:

https://www.usccb.org/upload/Primer-labor-Catholic-social-teaching.pdf

For the poor:
Society of St. Vincent de Paul
Catholic Charities

 

[Balto1]

No it doesn’t.

For every 300-800 uninsured people one person dies unnecessarily each year, andnthat doesn’t take into account the greater risks of diseases of despair caused by crippling medical debt. Trump administration work requirement waivers have taken insurance from tens of thousands of people; the Trump administration’s cuts quite literally kill poor people.

I’m guessing you believe there is no benefits abuse?

I believe, and the fraud rates bear this belief out, that welfare abuse is a very small percentage of welfare spending that is much more expensive and harmful to society to combat than just live and let live.

 

[PetraG]

I believe he loves people and hates poverty…the condition, not the person suffering. As Catholics we should not have so much difficulty seeing how this could be true. It is not such a leap from loving sinners and hating sin.

More jobs, less people on wellfare, less people depending on food stamps…higher wages.

That doesn’t put any food on the table of someone who doesn’t have a job.
Our Lord didn’t say, “I was hungry and I deserved food.” He only said, “I was hungry.”
In his time, I don’t think the concept of “illegal immigrant” even existed among the Jews. They self-identified as former sojourners with a responsibility towards sojourners.

Why is our immigrant nation choosing to forget that? We neither treat the citizens of the First Nations well nor treat those coming after us as immigrants ought to be treated.

For every 300-800 uninsured people one person dies unnecessarily each year, andnthat doesn’t take into account the greater risks of diseases of despair caused by crippling medical debt.

Unfortunately, poor nutrition among the poor is not a simple matter of lack of education. There is evidence that it has to do with lack of access and even stress:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0749379716303099

Excerpt from conclusions:
Low-income individuals and households experience unique challenges to healthy eating, and the current review confirms the need for interventions that acknowledge the multiple ways in which poverty influences dietary behaviors. Although cost of food is often cited as a major barrier to purchasing and consuming nutritious foods, this review provides a unique lens to understand how poverty, when exacerbated by uncertainty (i.e., food, employment, and housing insecurities), might trigger a biobehavioral response that alters neuroendocrine function and carbohydrate metabolism, which then leads to poor diet quality. The conceptual framework in this review could be used to inform the design of future interventions that aim to improve eating behaviors among low-income populations.

I agree that the best thing for everyone is to be able to be paid for an honest week’s work, whatever that is for the person. Having said that, I don’t see where our country has an excuse to let anybody go hungry unless they’re offered work and refuse to do it.

 

[mythbuster1]

Remember though, that immigrants to Israel were required to obey the Law, and that Israel got themselves into serious trouble by failing to enforce that requirement.

 

[PetraG]

Remember though, that immigrants to Israel were required to obey the Law, and that Israel got themselves into serious trouble by failing to enforce that requirement.

I totally believe in a nation’s right to secure her sovereign borders. The topic is whether the hurdles to legally getting a green card ought to be higher. I don’t think so.

The Church does teach that a nation’s right to secure her borders has to be balanced with the right of humans to migrate. The Church does not teach that nations have unlimited authority to police their borders or that Christians in one nation have a right to jealously guard the opportunity to amass wealth for the citizens of their country at the expense of the need of other human beings to find safety and a secure way of life.

In other words, our government has the right to govern our own nation, something that is pretty hard to do if they can’t even know who is here. We don’t have an unlimited right to shield ourselves from the needs of those who seek refuge or a better life than they have because we’re afraid it will require a sacrifice from us to do it.

 

[Shasta4737]

Petra, we all need to get out there and explain all of this about poverty to him and other Republicans before they cut more and more social programs. You are so right about low wages not being enough to support individuals and, especially, families. The truth is that many working people still qualify for the social programs that Trump wants to cut. Also, what about disabled people and the elderly poor? When he cuts these programs they get hurt, too. So many of These people can’t even perform a minimum wage job.

 

[PetraG]

Petra, we all need to get out there and explain all of this about poverty to him and other Republicans before they cut more and more social programs. You are so right about low wages not being enough to support individuals and, especially, families. The truth is that many working people still qualify for the social programs that Trump wants to cut. Also, what about disabled people and the elderly poor? When he cuts these programs they get hurt, too. So many of These people can’t even perform a minimum wage job.

I’m getting to the point where I think those of us who want a political party that is consistent with the Abrahamic faiths need to give up on the Democrats and Republicans and start one.

A bloc of voters that always votes in ways consistent with the Gospel might be forever doomed to be a minority party, even among Christians, Jews and Muslims, but if that is true, so be it.

 

[mythbuster1]

Actually, I think such a party would be quite viable, provided that it doesn’t show itself unwilling to form coalitions. It could quite reasonably supplant the Democrats in deep red states and the Republicans in deep blue states, and form coalitions in Congress to achieve national goals. Randall Terry for President 2024?

 

[PetraG]

Actually, I think such a party would be quite viable, provided that it doesn’t show itself unwilling to form coalitions. It could quite reasonably supplant the Democrats in deep red states and the Republicans in deep blue states, and form coalitions in Congress to achieve national goals. Randall Terry for President 2024?

Well, if it were a party that didn’t engage in name-calling and personal denigration of its opponents and if it were willing to work with whoever was willing when the cause was right, it might fail on the “do whatever it takes to win” front but I think it would get a following.

I’m getting really tired of the “do whatever it takes to win” front. I understand it, but I’m tired of it. It just feels intrinsically wrong.

 

[mythbuster1]

Right now, there are reasonable people on both sides who are being pushed out of their parties because they don’t believe in the party line. The problem is not that Americans don’t want conciliatory politics, but rather that they don’t want to vote for people who don’t believe in anything.