Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

[guanophore]

s for the Jewish Blessings, why would Jesus go back to a Jewish Passover and Blessing?

The blessing before meals is an every day blessing, not a Passover prayer. It has been imported into the Mass from the Synagogue liturgy.

Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation,
for through your goodness we have received
the bread we offer you:
fruit of the earth and work of human hands

Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation,
for through your goodness we have received
the wine we offer you:
fruit of the vine and work of human hands

The words of consecration were added to this prayer at Passover.

 

[mcq72]

Maybe the blessing that was pronounced the same as the last supper?

That would have been something! But not recorded, so like when you fix something, start out with the simplest, which I think would have been seeing His hands…simple yet quite dramatic…my eyeballs would have been poppin out , mouth wide open…but again not recorded either.

 

[Wannano]

rcwitness:

The body and blood of Christ is where we gather to worship and bring ourselves before Him! We hope to receive Him in a worthy manner! But we know where to come together as one body, since we are made one body by receiving the one body of Him!

…and it has remained the center of Worship–so important it is to the Church that there would be Extraordinary Minister of the Holy Eucharist designated to bring the Body and Blood of Christ to those where were unable to attend the Mass! Though I must clarify that they did not share such definitions as Extraordinary Ministers or Holy Eucharist–they simply designated some to Bring the Body and Blood to those of the Fold that could not make it to the Feast.

Reason fails today; why would the Church designate deliveries of a bit of bread and a little wine to the homes or places where people lived when they could very well feed themselves from what they had at their own places?

Maran atha!

Angel

I like your question because it shows how misunderstandings also exist on your side of the interpretation of the Eucharist. The idea of bringing bread and wine to the infirm was not to feed them lunch or supper in the natural sense. If it was then they may as well have eaten their own food in the pantry. You are right saying that.

At the Last Supper we all know Jesus took bread and “broke” it. After Pentecost, it is recorded that the believers continued in the “breaking of bread.” In the Emmaus experience Jesus was revealed after he took the bread and “broke” it.

I am not any kind of theologian and I do not claim to speak for all who do not practice Transubstantiation. I can only speak from my experience and what I have been taught. To have a whole loaf present at the Communion service and breaking it into individual segments is a more literal replication of what Christ did than serving factory made wafers. Why has that literal practice been changed? The whole loaf represents the physical body of Christ which we all agree was broken for us. It also represents the Body of Christ, the Church, of which together we all are a part of. It is a privilege to break and consume a morsel of bread from the whole loaf that represents Christ’s Body and by doing so together the communicants identify, share and proclaim their obedience to Christ and His teaching and their common identity in love and brotherhood with those who proclaim to be at peace with God and fellow man. That is why they would bring a piece of bread and wine from the common supply to someone who is unable to attend the service and is unable to be a part of the actual breaking of bread. Remember, even for those who do not practice Transubstantiation, receiving Communion as Jesus instructed us to, is still a special and hallowed practice.

 

[mcq72]

Paul, not being an eyewitness to the Teaching of Christ, writes about what he received from the Apostolic teachings through Sacred Tradition

Does he? I thought he said no man taught him.

 

[mcq72]

Reason fails today; why would the Church designate deliveries of a bit of bread and a little wine to the homes or places where people lived when they could very well feed themselve

Your singular use of the word “reason” is telling. Clearly there are varied reasons, even understandings, to the matter.

 

[Agathon]

He also met up with Peter and James so…

 

[rcwitness]

He also met up with Peter and James so…

And that they “added nothing to him”

Rather they confirmed the Grace and Gospel given to him was genuine.

 

[guanophore]

That would have been something! But not recorded, so like when you fix something, start out with the simplest, which I think would have been seeing His hands…simple yet quite dramatic…my eyeballs would have been poppin out , mouth wide open…but again not recorded either.

Just because something is not in the NT does not mean it was not recorded. I think we forget sometimes that salvation is from the Jews, and the Christians retained all of Judaism that did not need to be changed, including the [blessings before meals.](https://www.cha
bad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/278542/jewish/Hamotzi-Blessing-on-Bread.htm)

The blessing on bread:

בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה יְ‑יָ אֱ‑לֹהֵינוּ מֶלֶךְ הָעוֹלָם הַמּוֹצִיא לֶחֶם מִן הָאָרֶץ:

Blessed are You, L-rd our G‑d, King of the Universe, Who brings forth bread from the earth.

But I agree, I think He picked up the bread in His hands, and said the blessing.

To have a whole loaf present at the Communion service and breaking it into individual segments is a more literal replication of what Christ did than serving factory made wafers. Why has that literal practice been changed? The whole loaf represents the physical body of Christ which we all agree was broken for us.

Yes, except that the “loaf” was unleavened and more like a flatbread or tortilla. The practice of making individualized “bread” in advance is related to 1) the time it takes to break the bread and 2) the number of people in attendance.

 

[guanophore]

Does he? I thought he said no man taught him.

He had a number of things revealed to him by private revelation, but what I am trying to say was that he was not present while Jesus taught the other Apostles. He received the Sacred Tradition first through Ananias, who healed him and told him to be baptized.

Paul also testified that he passed on what he had received (through paradosis).

He didn’t say no man taught him, because he learned a lot from many, but that he received his gospel from Christ. Paul’s spiritual foundation at the feet of Gamaliel served him all his life.

 

[mcq72]

Rc…thank you…saved me the trouble of looking it up…but otherwards that is the word that came to mind…confirmation…plus when did they meet…how many years into his ministry?

 

[mcq72]

Ok…i would call it oral testimony also…and you cover many things/(name removed by moderator)uts…receiving the gospel from Christ is mixed in there but I would say is primary…big…for three years is what is supposed…dont have writ in front of me but i think rc stated correctly a bout the no man…perhaps like an independent study, apart from apostles, yet from same teacher…quite a testament to the validity of the gospel itself, of the one Shepherd and one Paraclete

 

[rcwitness]

Paul was instructed to go to Anannias. And there, he would be instructed what to do.

Later, he was instructed to go to Jerusalem to meet with Peter. He spent alot of time with Peter.

How many protestant pastors go to bishops to seek confirmation? Let alone the Bishop of Rome.

 

[mcq72]

How many protestant pastors go to bishops to seek confirmation? Let alone the Bishop of Rome.

Well, how many get knocked off a horse after persecuting the church?

Most pastors either went to seminary or were cultivated by spiritual father/elder, growing into offices.

And not all pastors are apostles.

We get our renegades, but yes not as often as you.

 

[SnoopSword]

The blessing on bread:

בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה יְ‑יָ אֱ‑לֹהֵינוּ מֶלֶךְ הָעוֹלָם הַמּוֹצִיא לֶחֶם מִן הָאָרֶץ:

“the LAST SUPPER could NOT have been a PASSOVER SEDER , because the Passover Seder DIDN’T EXIST until several decades AFTER Jesus’ death.” -Rabbi Mark S. Glickman, seattletimes 2008

“the PASSOVER SEDER was a RESPONSE to the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in the YEAR 70, and it WASN’T FINALIZED until sometime during the THIRD CENTURY -Rabbi Mark S. Glickman, seattletimes 2008

“to be PERFECTLY HONEST — the PASSOVER SEDER developed, in part, as an ANTI-CHRISTIAN POLEMIC — a “SLAM” on the then-new and growing religion called CHRISTIANITY.” -Rabbi Mark S. Glickman, seattletimes 2008

“the ANTI-CHRISTIAN ROOTS of the [PASSOVER SEDER] event are UNMISTAKABLE . -Rabbi Mark S. Glickman, seattletimes 2008

“it strikes me as DISINGENUOUS for Christianity (he means CERTAIN American Evangelicals) to REACH BACK into JUDAISM to CO-OPT JEWISH RITUALS that developed ONLY AFTER we split. -Rabbi Mark S. Glickman, seattletimes 2008

“it’s IMPORTANT to realize that the modern SEDER isn’t OT worship, it’s specifically MEDIEVAL rabbinical Jewish worship.” -wdtprs .com

“Why Christians SHOULDN’T Celebrate SEDER Meals” -catholicstand .com

“The Christian Seder Meal: A Violation of the 1st Commandment” -Sensus Fidei Youtube

“Passover: Seder Meals Are Not Catholic Practice” -catholicstand .com

“the Passover SEDER was to take place on FRIDAY evening, when the Lord was in the TOMB. The Last Supper was the DAY BEFORE.” -Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

“The Hebrew word “SEDER” literally means “ORDER” or “RITE” or “LITURGY.” It’s the “liturgy” for the Jewish Passover meal. EVANGELICAL PROTESTANTS have POPULARIZED Christian passover SEDERS to get in touch with THEIR Hebrew Christian ORIGINS.” -Cath. Apologetics taylormarshall .com

 

[SnoopSword]

How many protestant pastors go to bishops to seek confirmation? Let alone the Bishop of Rome.

These Pastors don’t need to because they are so holy and righteous:

Dr. Robert Jeffress, a Southern Baptist pastor: "Catholicism is a “CULT-LIKE PAGAN RELIGION” and the SUCCESS of the religion is due to “the genius of SATAN.” -newsweek .com

“‘Wonderful’ Pastor Who Says SATAN Founded the Catholic Church” -thedailybeast .com

Implying Mother Teresa is in Hell: “We can ONLY HOPE that at some point before her LAST breath [SAINT] MOTHER TERESA received SAVING FAITH in Christ and NO LONGER trusted in Catholicism” gotquestions .org

“SBC Leader: Baptists, Don’t Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Catholics” -theaquilareport.com Mar 8, 25

Realize how LOW these these people think of Catholics. They truly believe it is the Church is of Satan and that they hold the Truth (literally in their hand in the form of a book).

The reality is this: “Catholicism, when taken seriously and studied critically, simply CANNOT be denied.” – ‘A Baptist Preacher’s Son Becomes Catholic’ - chnetwork .org Aug 8, 2016

But apart from those rare cases, most have absolutely NO CLUE who God is or what Christianity is. They are a culture that grew AROUND Christianity - not part of it. You are dealing with people who have been given over to evil essentially and are actively working against the Christian Faith worldwide. Many with zeal are under demonic oppression so literally you are often times not debating a ‘full human being’ when it comes to these topics. Reason is thrown out the window.

 

[Benadam]

What did they “experience”, that is exactly what part or aspect of breaking of bread made them see

Jesus appearing was to teach and the vanishing moment was the point of the lesson.
They were expecting Him to fulfill a wordly nationalistic kind of salvation. They had resigned the Jesus movement to defeat. Jesus appeared and showed them who He really was, what His true mission is. What better way to complete that message than to disappear at the moment of communion with Him from then on? The Eucharist.

Edit: rc, I don’t understand why this post is to you. Not that I mind it’s just that I meant it for @mcq72

 

[Benadam]

I can’t believe that protestants and non-catholics would think that God sent His Son to die a horrible death, to institute a Church, establish her in uncorrupted Truth, if His Church was just going to become corrupt and look like any other work of man. That isn’t how the Holy Spirit guides into all truth.

 

[Wannano]

I can’t believe that protestants and non-catholics would think that God sent His Son to die a horrible death, to institute a Church, establish her in uncorrupted Truth, if His Church was just going to become corrupt and look like any other work of man. That isn’t how the Holy Spirit guides into all truth.

I can understand why you have trouble. Is the Church Jesus established the combined result of new life within people or the structure of man?

 

[rcwitness]

Benadam:

I can’t believe that protestants and non-catholics would think that God sent His Son to die a horrible death, to institute a Church, establish her in uncorrupted Truth, if His Church was just going to become corrupt and look like any other work of man. That isn’t how the Holy Spirit guides into all truth.

I can understand why you have trouble. Is the Church Jesus established the combined result of new life within people or the structure of man?

How about the structure of God’s buiding?

Is the Church structureless, or lawless?

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Benadam:

I can’t believe that protestants and non-catholics would think that God sent His Son to die a horrible death, to institute a Church, establish her in uncorrupted Truth, if His Church was just going to become corrupt and look like any other work of man. That isn’t how the Holy Spirit guides into all truth.

I can understand why you have trouble. Is the Church Jesus established the combined result of new life within people or the structure of man?

How about the structure of God’s buiding?

Is the Church structureless, or lawless?

No need to take everything over to the far side of the spectrum to discredit.

The NT clearly outlines that the Church is a community of intentional love and brotherhood with leadership that was designed to be a role of servant hood.