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mcq72
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OT mankind looked forward to the Messiah/Calvary as a faith promise as we look back as a faith fulfillment…Calvary is at center of salvation for all mankind, from Adam to the last man standing.
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Wannano
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I find this post very offensive to Billy Graham and all Christians either Catholic or non-Catholic. If he had wanted a real money tree he would have at least capitalized on it by joining the CC so that he could write books and travel around giving seminars like some others have done. This kind of garbage is breaking the commandment about giving false witness. To a Catholic I believe that is a mortal sin.
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mcq72
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Well, He took on sin, and He died on the cross.
We both don’t believe in soul sleep , so until the resurrection man is separated from his body at death. Jesus died. He resurrected bodily “3” days later.
Not seeing corruption is what, not taking on sin, or not going back to dust in the grave (decomposing) ?
i take it to mean He was not left in the grave but was resurrected quite soon, before any real decomposing took place (like Lazarus, though he stank). Unless you think He was reunited with His flesh , hours after His death, after they rolled stone in place, and descended into hell and preached to souls there , as some think…just not sure why He would need a body, cause no one else did, or had one.
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mcq72
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Yet you are correct, text says Jesus knew who did not believe from the beginning…see no difference.Jesus was not wrong. He knew who from the beginning they did not believe, and they left.
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mcq72
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To your point about ego etc, it is more about having Jesus(who is “eternal life”). Now if you eat Him you also have eternal life (Jesus)
So believing you have Him, eating Him you have Him. Is this why Augustine says that Peter “ate” Him by believing that He is the Messiah, as per His confession in discourse ? Leave your teeth and bellies behind ?
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mcq72
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And it can be more than mental assent, it can be believing in Him but not in truth, like believing in Him as a prophet …only…or believing in Him as King, overthrower of the Romans, without need for overthrowing their sins first…thru Calvary etcetc…no this is not of the Father…it is not believing in Him in truth and spirit
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mcq72
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Ghost
Yes, but conditional…Jesus must turn the keys first…and thru the leading of the Holy Ghost we follow suite on earth…we (church) do not turn key then Jesus follows us turning His key in heaven.
Not sure why cant be two sets of keys…I mean the husband and wife each have a set of keys to their home.
Have not responded to 1881 post…perhaps i felt it to be counterproductive, that whole thing about one community of believers being more visible, or having more authority, even successive authority, being more apostolic…as Jon suggests…sin divides…when we get judged the bigger issue is how we related to the Holy Ghost within us, who then strives to guide our every thought and action.
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rcwitness
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The keys are a symbol of authority. Its not a matter of “first” and “second”. Its a matter of how and when the keys are used. If they are used, then it is binding. Like a man and woman have authority, as a priestly people, to call on God to enter into the bond of Marriage. Jesus used the keys to lock the Marital bond until death do them part.
So with the Bible, Jesus said the Scriptures give witness to Him, and they cannot be broken. And the Church said these 73 books are Scripture.
Jesus does not merely have the keys, but He is the key. He has been given all authority and always spoke with the authority of heaven. Whatever He spoke was heaven coming to earth.
My question:
But try asking someone on the street “Does the Church Teach that Jesus permitted His followers to divorce and remarry?”. What will they say?
Has to do with whether or not THE Church knows what Jesus Teaches. This is a very significant question!! Does Jesus permit or not? And what does the Church profess? Did Jesus use the key to bind Marriage until death, or can man use the key to dissolve Marriage? What does the Church Teach?
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mcq72
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Not sure that is a genuine remark…for we all believe His words, and that they are eternal life, by grace, and not by any righteous work we do (even communion ritual).
The thief on the cross, and all the old testament saints, like Elizabeth and John the Baptist, and Elijah did not eat the literal flesh nor drink the literal blood of Jesus. But did they believe on Him and have eternal life…as you and I…they sure did…did they spiritually chew on His every Word, in the future promises and outlining of His coming…yes. Did they obey all religious observances? Yes, showing forth their faith. Would they have obeyed NT observances had they lived in our testament? For sure, but again, these righteous works granted them not eternal life, for they already had Him, by grace and faith. And we alike, have Him, Eternal Life Himself, when we are born again, baptized into His body…no one receives the communion elements unless they have Him already…such is the universal understanding.
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mcq72
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To use this “binding/doctrine” as illustration of what i believe writ to say on the matter, it is only binding if indeed it is bound in heaven first, only if He indeed God breathed 73 books, and if indeed He inspired the council to decree all 73 books as equally sacred.
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rcwitness
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I would have to agree with wannano on this one, for the most part. But both have some valid points, while both go to the extreme.
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mcq72
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Rc. This is one post 1881 I finally respinded too, not the divorce/marriage one…lol…actually i responded to post 1882… my phone is trickier to use …still lol
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rcwitness
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You seem to be mixing two separate things. The keys dont change what is True and not True. That much we agree on!rcwitness:
To use this “binding/doctrine” as illustration of what i believe writ to say on the matter, it is only binding if indeed it is bound in heaven first, only if He indeed God breathed 73 books, and if indeed He inspired the council to decree all 73 books as equally sacred.
The keys are the ability to declare what is True.
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mcq72
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I think original post was deleted…cant find it
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mcq72
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Perhaps but think they are related…so what is for example decreeing 73 holy books, use of keys or binding?
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mcq72
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This is certainly an issue, but then if a church has this wrong then is she invalidated, become invisible, with no authority structure, as was suggested and discussed in posts leading to your question?
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rcwitness
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The use of keys is binding. Its the nature of it. Authority is binding.
We all agree whatever Jesus spoke was the authority of God. But not all things are difinitively bound.
Each Scripture written was Scripture the moment it was penned. But when were the Scriptures made known as such?
We all agree whatever Jesus spoke was the authority of God. But not all things are difinitively bound.
Each Scripture written was Scripture the moment it was penned. But when were the Scriptures made known as such?
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rcwitness
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If a church Teaches something false, it is broken from Communion with the Church. A local church is only a church in so much as it is in Communion with the Whole Church.rcwitness:
This is certainly an issue, but then if a church has this wrong then is she invalidated, become invisible, with no authority structure, as was suggested and discussed in posts leading to your question?
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mcq72
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Now if you could just see all churches alike , that is all of them judged by their alignment to the Perfect Head of the body, not a perfect Catholic Church and all others judged by their alignment to her. ( Or at least to the perfect Cornerstone, and His twelve apostles, or then add to their writ, then lastly to any universal tradition)
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jcrichton
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Your problem is that you are convinced that you can lump in everything according to your vision.
Let me brake it down for you:
Lord’s Supper: no Jewish prayer; unless you are intimating that the Jewish daily blessing of food (meals) include Jesus’ Offering of His Body and Blood. If that is the case, then yes! However, since the Jews actually reject Jesus as Lord and Savior and since the Apostles were warned, under the penalty of incarceration and possible death, not to speak of His Name (to the point that they were spoken of as ‘those of the Way’) there’s no way that anyone can make such a connection (Jewish prayer founded in Jesus or Jesus Consecration of bread and wine having its origin in Jewish meal prayers).
Incident at Emmaus: no Jewish prayer reveals Jesus to these disciples. How do we know? We know because it is Jesus Himself that Reveals what will take place after His Resurrection:
Angel
Let me brake it down for you:
Lord’s Supper: no Jewish prayer; unless you are intimating that the Jewish daily blessing of food (meals) include Jesus’ Offering of His Body and Blood. If that is the case, then yes! However, since the Jews actually reject Jesus as Lord and Savior and since the Apostles were warned, under the penalty of incarceration and possible death, not to speak of His Name (to the point that they were spoken of as ‘those of the Way’) there’s no way that anyone can make such a connection (Jewish prayer founded in Jesus or Jesus Consecration of bread and wine having its origin in Jewish meal prayers).
Incident at Emmaus: no Jewish prayer reveals Jesus to these disciples. How do we know? We know because it is Jesus Himself that Reveals what will take place after His Resurrection:
It is the same reason why Mary Magdalene and the Eleven could not readily Know that it was Jesus Who stood in their presence:
When Jesus Broke Bread with the disciples at Emmaus, their spiritual eyes were opened (as it was with Magdalene and the Eleven) and they were able so see Jesus in His Changed Body! The Eucharist is Jesus’ Changed Body–nourishment for His Followers:
Maran atha!
Angel
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