Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

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If the link doesn’t work, it’s not much help. If you will go back to that post where you first placed the link, you will find a number in light gray, I believe it was a 2, which is the reason the link didn’t work. I saw it when I tried the link again. You have to be careful of those numbers. They throw everything off.

And since you admitted to having posted parts of paragraphs, I was able to spot immediately which parts you had not posted. I was able to read the complete paragraphs myself and understand what Pope Paul VI was saying.
 
guanophore said:
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Wannano:
what you shared is the essence of Christ’s coming to earth, His purpose. It is the central message of The Way before it developed into “religion.”
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It certainly does seem that the core message can get lost in religious practice. I learned to do all the “Catholic” things, genuflect, recite the Baltimore Catechism, complete all the Sacraments (as if they were some sort of modules to be performed). Yet my encounter with the Living God still seemed far away.

When looking at the term"religion"
it is interesting that it reflects the concept of being bound or committed to a Divine way of life. Somehow that concept escaped me. I remember being very angry at the CC for “hiding the Gospel” from me, until I was taught it by my Baptist Brethren.

I notice that modern Catechism training for instructors is all centered around helping people develop a relationship/encounter with Christ, and places the dogmas and practices in that context. But I don’t think it was taught this way when I was coming up.
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Very much appreciate your honesty and transparency. Maybe there is hope for all of us yet…
 
lilypadrees said:
Granted, the call may be always present. But one is not going to answer it if they don’t hear it.
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Well if the call is always present - as it was for the woman who converted on her 80s - then it is illogical to assert that it is God’s will for someone not to hear it immediately. He is not that capricious or inconsistent.
 
lilypadrees said:
Um, I said “in their (the atheist’s) view, there is no call to hear.”

Well, who does more is God’s call to make.
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But remember we are judged on opportunities squandered as well as what we have achieved. God may well have called BG to in fact do more than he did, and he will have to answer for it.
 
Since atheists don’t believe God exists, they have to come to the realization that He does exist before they are going to hear a word Christians who try to tell them of His love speak. God is a gentleman. He doesn’t force His Will on anyone.

In regard to Billy Graham, he did what God called him to do even in his later years when the ravages of age and frailty meant he could no longer travel. He still gave encouragement to all. I am positive that when God called him home, he heard the welcoming words, “Well done, good and faithful servant. Enter now into your Master’s joy.”
 
lilypadrees said:
Um, I said “in their (the atheist’s) view, there is no call to hear.”
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Yes, and I think this describes me also when I left the faith into which I was baptized to set about on a spiritual search. I was proceeding on the basis of “my view”. In retrospect, I don’t see how I could have done otherwise. God used my passion to know Him and learn more to teach and guide me, but I did not feel “called” to return to Catholicism for quite some time. I realize now that the call was always there, but it was not within “my view” at the time.

Each of us is obligated to follow our own conscience. In my experience, persons who are fervent non- Catholics are so because they believe with all their heart that they are responding to the call of God where they are (as I believe Billy Graham was). Since we don’t see things God’s point of view, we have to go on what we know, and what we believe has been revealed to us.
lilypadrees said:
Well, who does more is God’s call to make.
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Actually, I don’t think it is. I think that each of us has the choice to spiritually potentiate ourselves where we are. I think that most Catholics do not prioritize spiritual life, or the tenents of their faith (if the polls are correct). There are faithful Protestants that have never been exposed to the “fullness of faith” and yet, are more disciplined and fervent about living as disciples of Christ than many who have been baptized into Catholicism. I think God’s grace is available to all, and whether one receives it and walks in it is up to them.
lilypadrees said:
Granted, the call may be always present. But one is not going to answer it if they don’t hear it.
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Indeed not! And persons who are diligently responding to what they do hear, like your grandmother, should be commended and supported in that response.
 
lilypadrees said:
Since atheists don’t believe God exists, they have to come to the realization that He does exist before they are going to hear a word Christians who try to tell them of His love speak. God is a gentleman. He doesn’t force His Will on anyone.
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I see your point. I don’t even like to have a debate with atheists because the gap is more than I can span. To me, the evidence of God in creation is overwhelming, but perhaps that is because I already believe in the Creator? I think in cases like this it is just better to actually show the love of God to those who do not believe, rather than try to pursuade them. Many atheists will acknowledge that I am deluded, but kind.
lilypadrees said:
In regard to Billy Graham, he did what God called him to do even in his later years when the ravages of age and frailty meant he could no longer travel. He still gave encouragement to all. I am positive that when God called him home, he heard the welcoming words, “Well done, good and faithful servant. Enter now into your Master’s joy.”
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While none of us can know for sure (it is only God who judges), I do echo your sentiment, and pray that this is indeed the case. I don’t know if his ignorance of the Catholic faith was invincible, but I do agree with you that he labored to the end to answer what he believed God called him to do on this earth.
 
Had my mother found the Catholic Church we’ve called home for all these years immediately, I wouldn’t have gone to Protestant churches at all. But He allowed enough time for her to find it (through a co-worker at her new job since we’d just moved here) that I was able to go to the various churches (inc those of my mother’s parents) and see how they preached and taught Jesus. Definitely different than the Catholic Church and I can see why our priest in our old parish had advised not going to Protestant churches. ahem

In regard to polls, I don’t pay attention to them. The stats are usually outdated and exaggerated.
 
lilypadrees said:
If the link doesn’t work, it’s not much help. If you will go back to that post where you first placed the link, you will find a number in light gray, I believe it was a 2, which is the reason the link didn’t work. I saw it when I tried the link again. You have to be careful of those numbers. They throw everything off.

And since you admitted to having posted parts of paragraphs,
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when you said the link didn’t work I gave you another link. Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist - #117 by steve-b that worked because of your response Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist - #145 by lilypadrees
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lilypadrees:
I was able to spot immediately which parts you had not posted. I was able to read the complete paragraphs myself and understand what Pope Paul VI was saying.
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Each post has a limit to size therefore links. Now that you read the document I posted in full and in it’s context, you can see I’m correct.
 
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LilyM said:
Do you doubt that Christ began a visible, institutional Church - ONE visible, institutional church with one leadership structure? With visible, formal sacraments?
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Look, Billy Graham, and many before him, have been "successful’’ evangelists, primarily because of their “message”, even gospel message. They bring the listener to an understanding of themselves before Christ , with eternal consequences. That is the focus, one on one with the Godhead. What is behind the scenes are all the churches involved, even praying for, and shepherding any new converts. I do not believe there is any “proselytizing” or sectarianism. I would think it is understood that many already have some church affiliation or background, and pretty sure Graham never said be a baptist , lutheran, catholic, orthodox.

His appeal was for one to make a decision to be “Christian”, part of the ecclesia first. From there it is on to being led to a specific congregation,even church. No denial for future oversight, hierarchical authority, magisterium, history, tradition,sacraments.
 
mcq72 said:
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LilyM:
Do you doubt that Christ began a visible, institutional Church - ONE visible, institutional church with one leadership structure? With visible, formal sacraments?
Click to expand...
Look, Billy Graham, and many before him, have been "successful’’ evangelists, primarily because of their “message”, even gospel message. They bring the listener to an understanding of themselves before Christ , with eternal consequences. That is the focus, one on one with the Godhead. What is behind the scenes are all the churches involved, even praying for, and shepherding any new converts. I do not believe there is any “proselytizing” or sectarianism. I would think it is understood that many already have some church affiliation or background, and pretty sure Graham never said be a baptist , lutheran, catholic, orthodox.

His appeal was for one to make a decision to be “Christian”, part of the ecclesia first. From there it is on to being led to a specific congregation,even church. No denial for future oversight, hierarchical authority, magisterium, history, tradition,sacraments.
Click to expand...
This is a good and great. I have no problem with honoring Billy Graham and others like him, who preach in public! I dont see why a Catholic priest cant do as much. In the past, Saints have preached like Billy too!

But none of this is why I asked the OP question. The OP question doesnt have to do with public preaching and how neutral or basic it may be.

The question is where does God call us to Commune… not Billy Graham, or Pope Francis, or whoever. Where does His Holy Spirit call men to Commune?

The Catholic Church says it is with Her valid, transubstatial, consecrated Holy Eucharist (which is offered through the Orthodox Churches too).

As Catholics, we know that this is a lawful Supper of the Lord.

We can, and should certainly agree as far as we can with a common set of beliefs among separated brothers. But we do not have the luxury of saying that God calls Baptists, or Methodists, or Lutherans, or Evangelical Free Christians to remain apart from Communion of His Transubstantiated Eucharist!
 
No, No, No. You totally misunderstand what I said. My comment was not about finding the Catholic Church as in converting to and becoming Catholic.

We had just moved to a new State after having lived in another for my entire life (minus 10 months). We had been attending the Catholic Church where we lived before and my mother, being new to the area and in charge of my religious education and worship, was trying to find the nearest Catholic Church for us to attend in our new location. Thankfully, one of my mother’s new co-workers was Catholic and she told us where it was.
 
mcq72 said:
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LilyM:
Do you doubt that Christ began a visible, institutional Church - ONE visible, institutional church with one leadership structure? With visible, formal sacraments?
Click to expand...
His appeal was for one to make a decision to be “Christian”, part of the ecclesia first. From there it is on to being led to a specific congregation,even church. No denial for future oversight, hierarchical authority, magisterium, history, tradition,sacraments.
Click to expand...
with all respect

I would just make this observation and ask the following questions

Jesus instituted the sacraments for our salvation. Billy wasn’t sacramental.
Jesus instituted the Catholic Church on Peter and those in union with Peter. Billy wasn’t in the Catholic Church
Jesus condemned division. Billy was divided
Jesus said,“if you love me keep my commandments”

was any of the above suggestions or commandments?

What Gospel and what Jesus, was Billy preaching?
 
steve-b said:
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mcq72:
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LilyM:
Do you doubt that Christ began a visible, institutional Church - ONE visible, institutional church with one leadership structure? With visible, formal sacraments?
Click to expand...
His appeal was for one to make a decision to be “Christian”, part of the ecclesia first. From there it is on to being led to a specific congregation,even church. No denial for future oversight, hierarchical authority, magisterium, history, tradition,sacraments.
Click to expand...
with all respect

I would just make this observation and ask the following questions

Jesus instituted the sacraments for our salvation. Billy wasn’t sacramental.
Jesus instituted the Catholic Church on Peter and those in union with Peter. Billy wasn’t in the Catholic Church
Jesus condemned division. Billy was divided
Jesus said,“if you love me keep my commandments”

was any of the above suggestions or commandments?

What Gospel and what Jesus, was Billy preaching?
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I have read articles that talk about the friendship Billy Graham had with Pope John Paul ll. It is documented that the Pope at one time grabbed Billy by the collars of his suit and with his face close to that of Billy Graham declared firmly that he and Billy were brothers. If Billy Graham was a false uncalled self appointed minister then Pope John Paul ll was equally duped and would be proving he also is just as false as his friend in his inability to discern. Obviously the Gospel Billy Graham preached was the same Gospel of the same Jesus the Roman Catholic Church claims to teach.
 
I like your response wrt this thread.

It seems those questions you responded to should rather have been asked to JPII. I really doubt Pope Francis would act any differently. Rather he would hug Graham and say the same.
 
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