God’s exists in his ever-present “now.” So, the act of creation is something that is happening now. God (as both the first cause and last cause) responds to every contingency (past, present, and future) in the world now. That is why his “responses” actually qualify as one “act” of will. Albeit, from our temporal perspective, we view his responses as separate or distinct acts of will.
Yes, but I probably should say “multiverse” or “parallel universes.” The point is that God’s eternal act of creation implies that the creation itself must be in some sense co-eternal with him. (The term “eternity” has two meanings: timelessness or everlasting in time.)
I’m not making any such assumption.
I say I have a valid argument. You say I don’t. So, we will have to agree to disagree.
What does God’s omnipotence have to do with whether he chooses to create or not to create?
If God did not choose between creating or not creating, then the fact that there is a creation implies that it could not have been otherwise. IOW, since there is a creation, then this implies that it is impossible that there could not have been a creation.
If God doesn’t make any choices, then he is not free make a choice between alternatives. IOW, he is not free to choose otherwise because his not free to choose!
Everything God wills happens by necessity because it could not have been otherwise.
If God’s knowledge of a “time bound universe” is eternal and he creates things by knowing them, then this implies that the “time bound universe” has always existed eternally because he has eternal knowledge of it.
That’s a dogmatic statement, not a rational argument.
If you aren’t going to be logical, discussion is pointless. You argue just like Bahman. Faith trumps reason, because reason can err. But faith is certain. So Dogma gives certain truth.
It is contradictory to accuse me of irrationality because I do not accept dogma based on faith
There is nothing contradictory about God willing to create a non-eternal universe from eternity. This is just like God willing that His son appear at a specific time in world history (i.e. He wills from eternity that Christ be born in Bethlehem around 0 A.D.). God is not simply willing that Christ be born in Judea from eternity, but rather He wills that Christ appear at a specific date from eternity. In short, you are assuming a lack of nuance in what God wills. He doesn’t simply will the existence of the universe, but He wills that it exist in a non-eternal way.
You logic is awful. I did not say your logic was bad because you lacked faith. I said your logical processes are deficient. But faith can take the place of logic, and certainly does on the really important issues. For the really important issues of life are clear, through faith, even to the uneducated or those lacking logical facility.
Whatever you say. You’re clearly assuming something without clearly demonstrating first how that assumption is true, such as how temporal and contingent being can be co-eternal with God. Or how temporal existence is at the same time eternal.
Arguments consist of clear and properly defined terms, sound premises, and conclusions which follow directly from those premises. That’s what constitutes a valid argument.It’s also highly irrational and fallacious to reject a dogma just because of it’s source, that’s called the genetic fallacy.
But you haven’t demonstrated any flaw in my argument.
It seems to me that you are simply playing the faith card because you can’t refute my argument.
I would suggest that you cease trying to understand God using a philosophical argument. He is above all human understanding. Just know that He is all good and eternal and your salvation.
This is an interesting assumption.
Have you considered that you cannot see the flaw because you don’t want to? I certainly tried to explain it… When we understand that God has all power in his hands, that he is absolutely perfect, and cannot be other than he is, and that in him there is no potentiality for change, then we should understand that he knows, wills, creates - all without change. And if one cannot understand that, then one must just accept it on faith. Naturally, faith is the trump card. Not everyone can understand the philosophical argument - for various reasons. That is why the Church teaches those things which God has Revealed about himself. That way all can understand, even if they lack education or simply lack the facility to understand the logical explanation. In our daily lives we accept lots of things on faith. For we either do not have the time or we do not have the ability to actually understand the reasons for them.
Why would God’s choice be eternally determined? Or are you saying that it is necessary in its strongest modal form? Just curious
This is the philosophy subforum.
If your theology defies logic, then we can summarily dismiss it.
I don’t see any flaw in my argument because there isn’t any.
I’ve already furnished you with an explanation. God’s decision to create the world is eternal because God is eternal. This implies that the creation is co-eternal with God. It’s that simple.Why would God’s choice be eternally determined? Or are you saying that it is necessary in its strongest modal form? Just curious