Does God love me?

[Neoplatonist]

Many things about God are mysteries. Many things about human emotions and feelings are mysteries.

That God loves us, whether we feel it, or not, is not a mystery.

Is it possible in your case the if you had a powerful, inspiring experience, that it would lead you away from, rather than, toward God?

I would be grateful for Him to even say just that in a way that I knew it was Him. Let the ice melt away in my yard leaving the words “be patient”. I know, that would probably still count under your condition.

Honestly, though, I am tired of the common line of thinking that every single piece of the puzzle must be an act of trust/faith. Surely giving me the corners of the puzzle or some of the edges would still leave plenty of puzzle for me to patiently work through…

 

[ready]

Dear Neoplatonist,

God sends beginners in the spiritual life many consolations, but as they advance He wants them to walk more by faith and gives them less consolations. Those who are very faithful in the spiritual life He puts through the Dark Night of the Senses and Spirit, leaving them devoid of many/all consolations for a long period of time. If we are not very faithful and advanced like these souls and do not feel His love, then we must consider that some negligence, sin(s), etc. on our part is responsible for our feeling distance from Him and unloved by Him. I can assure you that even if a negligent, very sinful soul does not feel God’s love for him/her, God still loves him/her inestimably; God hates his/her bad condition but always loves him/her, for He is love and a good God, who in this life rewards and chastises, because He loves. God bless you.

Yours in Mary Immaculate Queen,
ready

 

[ready]

Dear Neoplatonist and JamesATyler,

I have not read most of your posts, in fact I have read next to none of them. But I would like to say that that if you do not feel God’s love, it is best that you ask yourself if there is any lack of submission (any sin(s) or negligence on your part) that could be responsible, which need to be corrected. If not, then the following passage will help you even more:

“Do nothing, then, against God’s decree [that you be in this trial of yours], nor utter one word of complaint or lamentation. In this lies that perfect submission which is born of love, and of the purest love at that. At such junctures would that you could do nothing and say nothing, but dwell in a humble silence of respect, faith, adoration, submission, self-abandonment and sacrifice; then you would have discovered the great secret of sanctifying all your sufferings, and even of turning them into great sweetness. You must strive for this state and seek to make it habitual, but when you have failed in it, you must be careful not to fall into grief or discouragement, returning rather to that great silence in peaceful and tranquil humility.” (Taken from pg. 368 of Self-abandonment to Divine Providence by Fr. J.P. De Caussade, S.J.)

Yours in Mary Immaculate Queen,
ready

 

[James_Tyler]

Dear Neoplatonist and JamesATyler,

I have not read most of your posts, in fact I have read next to none of them. But I would like to say that that if you do not feel God’s love, it is best that you ask yourself if there is any lack of submission (any sin(s) or negligence on your part) that could be responsible, which need to be corrected. If not, then the following passage will help you even more:

“Do nothing, then, against God’s decree [that you be in this trial of yours], nor utter one word of complaint or lamentation. In this lies that perfect submission which is born of love, and of the purest love at that. At such junctures would that you could do nothing and say nothing, but dwell in a humble silence of respect, faith, adoration, submission, self-abandonment and sacrifice; then you would have discovered the great secret of sanctifying all your sufferings, and even of turning them into great sweetness. You must strive for this state and seek to make it habitual, but when you have failed in it, you must be careful not to fall into grief or discouragement, returning rather to that great silence in peaceful and tranquil humility.” (Taken from pg. 368 of Self-abandonment to Divine Providence by Fr. J.P. De Caussade, S.J.)

Yours in Mary Immaculate Queen,
ready

Well, for me it was not a lack of feeling inside. I feel fine. I am not depressed or sad. I have bouts with anger but not against God but toward people who have hurt my feelings. Sometimes my anger is quite unreasonable and I don’t act on it but do my best to just dismiss it. For me, my worry sometimes comes from a fear about who I am. I worry that it is me who acts against God, not just in terms of sin, which I believe God is right about, but in terms of motive. I fear that what motivates me, even my best vision for what the world should be like, is somehow flawed in such a way that I strive for a world vision that is similar, perhaps, to what God’s kingdom is, but also unlike it in some respects. Although these differences are not known to me. Therefore, I strive for a different kind of kingdom which opposes God in some way. It borders on paranoia about what I don’t know about God.

Today, I am feeling ok about all of this. It seems reasonable to me that even if I do not share God’s vision in totality and lack in certain respects, that this is not the end of the world. I am pretty sure God would not cast me out. The fear is that he sees something much darker about me than I can fathom and is disgusted. So there is a paranoia about what I don’t know about myself. I hope and pray that God can lead me. And hopefully I can shake these paranoia about the things I can’t see.

 

[ready]

The fear is that he sees something much darker about me than I can fathom and is disgusted. So there is a paranoia about what I don’t know about myself. I hope and pray that God can lead me. And hopefully I can shake these paranoia about the things I can’t see.

If our Lord has revealed to you your wretchedness, abjectness, misery, then this is a very special grace you have received, one you should be very thankful for. Love your abjectness while hating your sins, and have 100% confidence in our Lord to lead you and to save you. Pray, hope and don’t worry, like Padre Pio used to say. The more sinful/dark God allows us to see ourselves as, the greater progress in the spiritual life we have made. Do not get anxious about your state of misery/“darkness” … let submission, self-abandonment to God, peace, confidence in Him and a strong hatred for your sins replace your anxiety. God bless you.

 

[Neoplatonist]

If our Lord has revealed to you your wretchedness, abjectness, misery, then this is a very special grace you have received, one you should be very thankful for. Love your abjectness while hating your sins, and have 100% confidence in our Lord to lead you and to save you. Pray, hope and don’t worry, like Padre Pio used to say. The more sinful/dark God allows us to see ourselves as, the greater progress in the spiritual life we have made. Do not get anxious about your state of misery/“darkness” … let submission, self-abandonment to God, peace, confidence in Him and a strong hatred for your sins replace your anxiety. God bless you.

So…this wondrous father/spouse gives us a gift by revealing to us how pathetic and wretched we are? How is that “love” again? When we see things like that in human relationships, it is part of a destructive dynamic that spirals downward. The “total submission” line has always rung dangerous as well. Is there a way to explain these that makes God sound less like an unstable therapy prospect?

 

[JosieN]

So…this wondrous father/spouse gives us a gift by revealing to us how pathetic and wretched we are? How is that “love” again? When we see things like that in human relationships, it is part of a destructive dynamic that spirals downward. The “total submission” line has always rung dangerous as well. Is there a way to explain these that makes God sound less like an unstable therapy prospect?

What you need is God’s grace. God’s grace will help you to see things more clearly. Like the song Amazing Grace. “Amazing Grace how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me, I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see”. We are all wretched. God reveals to us how wretched we are for our own good. It helps us to grow closer to Him and makes us want to correct our faults. Sometimes you need to pray for grace to receive it,.

Here is a favorite prayer of mine.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, today I wish to live in You, in Your Grace, in which I desire at all costs to persevere. Keep me from sin and strengthen my will by helping me to keep watch over my senses, my imagination, and my heart. Help me to correct my faults which are the source of sin. I beg You to do this, O Jesus, through Mary, Your Immaculate Mother.

 

[ready]

So…this wondrous father/spouse gives us a gift by revealing to us how pathetic and wretched we are? How is that “love” again? When we see things like that in human relationships, it is part of a destructive dynamic that spirals downward. The “total submission” line has always rung dangerous as well. Is there a way to explain these that makes God sound less like an unstable therapy prospect?

From reading your posts I see that one of your main problems is that you keep judging our Lord by human standards, which you should not do–He is God and not a creature, and He is in a class all by Himself; His thoughts are far above our thoughts, and His ways are far above our ways; we can not even begin to comprehend the wise and wonderful way He works out everything to the advantage of those who love Him and do His holy Will, his elect.

It is a special grace from God when He shows us our great misery and abjectness because then we can truly begin to have self-contempt (a good thing, which means death to our pride and self-love) and we can have distrust in ourselves and total trust in and dependency on God, His mercy and the merits of Jesus Christ. With trust in ourselves and in our own good works we miss out on so many graces and spiritual advancement because God can not fill us with His graces when we are so filled up with ourselves; with distrust of ourselves and total trust in and dependency on God, His mercy and His merits, we are like little children empty of self-love and pride, with room-galore in us for graces. When we recognize our nothingness, littleness, misery, helplessness, abjectness we can place all of our trust in our heavenly Father who can and WILL help us, like parents help their helpless little children. We will not be able to enter Heaven if we do not become like the helpless trusting child who places all of his confidence in his father. God bless you.

 

[ready]

Dear Neoplatonist,

God sends beginners in the spiritual life many consolations, but as they advance He wants them to walk more by faith and gives them less consolations. Those who are very faithful in the spiritual life He puts through the Dark Night of the Senses and Spirit, leaving them devoid of many/all consolations for a long period of time. If we are not very faithful and advanced like these souls and do not feel His love, then we must consider that some negligence, sin(s), etc. on our part is responsible for our feeling distance from Him and unloved by Him. I can assure you that even if a negligent, very sinful soul does not feel God’s love for him/her, God still loves him/her inestimably; God hates his/her bad condition but always loves him/her, for He is love and a good God, who in this life rewards and chastises, because He loves. God bless you.

Yours in Mary Immaculate Queen,
ready

I must clarify something important. Sometimes our Lord puts a person not so advanced in the spiritual life into the Dark Night. Therefore, not only advanced souls experience the desolations of the Dark Night. God bless you.

 

[Aloysium]

So…this wondrous father/spouse gives us a gift by revealing to us how pathetic and wretched we are? How is that “love” again? When we see things like that in human relationships, it is part of a destructive dynamic that spirals downward. The “total submission” line has always rung dangerous as well. Is there a way to explain these that makes God sound less like an unstable therapy prospect?

Well, all I know is that I do not have much patience with this sort of self-indulgence. But, I’m not God, just one individual who has seen less than others, while more than his fair share of suffering and death.

So, you really have no clue as to how pathetic you actually sound? Really? This life is very, very hard; dude, you need to gird your loins (or as the colloquial term goes, grow two organs).

Putting on a demeanor which is holier, more compassionate perhaps, with a pinch of condescension:
What you have to do is to go with your brokenness.
You are damaged; feel its breadth and depths.
This Advent, let the waiting and the yearning burn out all the selfishness that prevents you from giving back to God (by giving to others) the innumerable gifts you have been granted.

The total submission is a submission to love. You are feeling the reflection of your own soul.

 

[JosieN]

From reading your posts I see that one of your main problems is that you keep judging our Lord by human standards, which you should not do–He is God and not a creature, and He is in a class all by Himself; His thoughts are far above our thoughts, and His ways are far above our ways; we can not even begin to comprehend the wise and wonderful way He works out everything to the advantage of those who love Him and do His holy Will, his elect.

It is a special grace from God when He shows us our great misery and abjectness because then we can truly begin to have self-contempt (a good thing, which means death to our pride and self-love) and we can have distrust in ourselves and total trust in and dependency on God, His mercy and the merits of Jesus Christ. With trust in ourselves and in our own good works we miss out on so many graces and spiritual advancement because God can not fill us with His graces when we are so filled up with ourselves; with distrust of ourselves and total trust in and dependency on God, His mercy and His merits, we are like little children empty of self-love and pride, with room-galore in us for graces. When we recognize our nothingness, littleness, misery, helplessness, abjectness we can place all of our trust in our heavenly Father who can and WILL help us, like parents help their helpless little children. We will not be able to enter Heaven if we do not become like the helpless trusting child who places all of his confidence in his father. God bless you.

I agree with you but it is difficult for most people to understand this way of thinking. It seems like most of us are constantly in a battle to fight off our self-love and pride and many don’t realize it even exists within them, also trusting God can be difficult because it takes great faith.

 

[ready]

I agree with you but it is difficult for most people to understand this way of thinking. It seems like most of us are constantly in a battle to fight off our self-love and pride and many don’t realize it even exists within them, also trusting God can be difficult because it takes great faith.

Yes, Josi, and thank you for your feedback. The most advanced and excellent spiritual life is one lived by pure faith,100% trust/confidence in God 's mercy and in the merits of Jesus Christ, and lived with blind obedience, self-contempt, hatred for sin, love of one’s abjectness, etc… But as you say, souls must battle constantly with self-love and pride. These two culprits spoil *so much *and keep us from decreasing so that our Lord can not increase within us. If we take up our crosses daily and follow Christ, and love our humiliations and our abject poverty peacefully, then in God’s own time we can give self-love and pride their death blow, to make us saints. God bless you.

 

[Neoplatonist]

Well, all I know is that I do not have much patience with this sort of self-indulgence. But, I’m not God, just one individual who has seen less than others, while more than his fair share of suffering and death.

So, you really have no clue as to how pathetic you actually sound? Really? This life is very, very hard; dude, you need to gird your loins (or as the colloquial term goes, grow two organs).

Putting on a demeanor which is holier, more compassionate perhaps, with a pinch of condescension:
What you have to do is to go with your brokenness.
You are damaged; feel its breadth and depths.
This Advent, let the waiting and the yearning burn out all the selfishness that prevents you from giving back to God (by giving to others) the innumerable gifts you have been granted.

The total submission is a submission to love. You are feeling the reflection of your own soul.

It is a hasty assumption that because I lack understanding I let that stand in the way of my service to God and church. Does that mean I have to accept every one of the myriad conflicting interpretations of spirituality that come down the pike?

 

[Neoplatonist]

From reading your posts I see that one of your main problems is that you keep judging our Lord by human standards, which you should not do–He is God and not a creature, and He is in a class all by Himself; His thoughts are far above our thoughts, and His ways are far above our ways; we can not even begin to comprehend the wise and wonderful way He works out everything to the advantage of those who love Him and do His holy Will, his elect.

It is a special grace from God when He shows us our great misery and abjectness because then we can truly begin to have self-contempt (a good thing, which means death to our pride and self-love) and we can have distrust in ourselves and total trust in and dependency on God, His mercy and the merits of Jesus Christ. With trust in ourselves and in our own good works we miss out on so many graces and spiritual advancement because God can not fill us with His graces when we are so filled up with ourselves; with distrust of ourselves and total trust in and dependency on God, His mercy and His merits, we are like little children empty of self-love and pride, with room-galore in us for graces. When we recognize our nothingness, littleness, misery, helplessness, abjectness we can place all of our trust in our heavenly Father who can and WILL help us, like parents help their helpless little children. We will not be able to enter Heaven if we do not become like the helpless trusting child who places all of his confidence in his father. God bless you.

Trying to understand and evaluate the coherence of our attempts to understand is not the same as judging.

Seeking to understand is also not the same as withholding trust and hope.

Let’s work with the parent analogy, which is so common in the tradition: how can we compare him to a parent (and not run into problems in our understanding) when it would be abhorrent for us to imagine a human parent whose highest goal for their child is to be completely and utterly dependent on them?

Can we address this as an intellectual puzzle?

 

[JosieN]

Yes, Josi, and thank you for your feedback. The most advanced and excellent spiritual life is one lived by pure faith,100% trust/confidence in God 's mercy and in the merits of Jesus Christ, and lived with blind obedience, self-contempt, hatred for sin, love of one’s abjectness, etc… But as you say, souls must battle constantly with self-love and pride. These two culprits spoil *so much *and keep us from decreasing so that our Lord can not increase within us. If we take up our crosses daily and follow Christ, and love our humiliations and our abject poverty peacefully, then in God’s own time we can give self-love and pride their death blow, to make us saints. God bless you.

The mind and the soul appear to be against each other. Our souls need humility and hatred for sin but our mind will say something different. I hope that I am following Christ and doing God’s will.

 

[WilT]

Dear Neoplatonist,

God sends beginners in the spiritual life many consolations… I can assure you that even if a negligent, very sinful soul does not feel God’s love for him/her, God still loves him/her inestimably; God hates his/her bad condition but always loves him/her, for He is love and a good God, who in this life rewards and chastises, because He loves. God bless you.

Yours in Mary Immaculate Queen,
ready

Very good and interesting as well. As I work with the homeless, I see Jesus consoling them very regularly providing for them what they need whether or not it may be good for them. This has won over the hearts of many on the street and I have been able to witness God’s hand in many things. One individual a veteran marine guy, swears horribly and is always mad at the world while on his drinking binges yet even in his rage he is able to utter the most incredible and most spiritualy tainted remarks. He would announce that " I’m the worst Christian around" “Jesus love us”, “the opposite of love is love”, “we are beyond blessed”. He somehow finds time for humility and sincere regret of his lifestyle. What I have learned from this is fascinating. That dispite our personal failures and turns in life, if you show humility as in my example, God sheads all sorts of blessings on them never really letting them go. God, even though we may sin horribly, finds humility and obedience (even at a later time) more noteworthy than our sinfulness. Incredible finding.:dancing:

 

[ready]

The mind and the soul appear to be against each other. Our souls need humility and hatred for sin but our mind will say something different. I hope that I am following Christ and doing God’s will.

Persevere!

 

[ready]

Trying to understand and evaluate the coherence of our attempts to understand is not the same as judging.

Seeking to understand is also not the same as withholding trust and hope.

Let’s work with the parent analogy, which is so common in the tradition: how can we compare him to a parent (and not run into problems in our understanding) when it would be abhorrent for us to imagine a human parent whose highest goal for their child is to be completely and utterly dependent on them?

Can we address this as an intellectual puzzle?

Have I ever accused you of withholding trust and hope? No. I have accused you of judging God by human standards, which you most certainly do and which is wrong of you. Why, you have even judged Him by human standards in this last email of yours regarding parenting. God IS our loving Parent, and He possesses EVERYTHING that we need, and He gratuitously and freely gives us whatever we need and ask for that is best for us; so it is not perverse or wrong of Him to have us depend completely on Him, seeing He knows what is best for us and has EVERYTHING we truly need and seeing He does not withhold what we truly need whenever we humbly ask Him for it; we are shortsighted and helpless when it comes to knowing that which is the very best for our souls, so it is BEST that we put all our trust in God and depend solely on Him. As His *faithful *children, we can pray to Him for His love, blessings, providential care and protection with 100% trust that He will never cease to love us, bless us, care for us and protect us, for He is our Father who loves us inestimably and never ceases to bless and care for and protects His faithful children. God bless you.

 

[ready]

EDIT:

Have I ever accused you of withholding trust and hope? No. I have accused you of judging God by human standards, which you most certainly do and which is wrong of you. Why, you have even judged Him by human standards in this last email of yours regarding parenting. God IS our loving Parent, and He possesses EVERYTHING that we need, and He gratuitously and freely gives us whatever we need and ask for that is best for us; so it is not perverse or wrong of Him to have us depend completely on Him, seeing He knows what is best for us and has EVERYTHING we truly need and seeing He does not withhold what we truly need whenever we humbly ask Him for it; we are shortsighted and helpless when it comes to knowing that which is the very best for our souls, so it is BEST that we put all our trust in God and depend solely on Him. As His *faithful *children, we can pray to Him for His love, blessings, providential care and protection with 100% trust that He will never cease to love us, bless us, care for us and protect us, for He is our Father who loves us inestimably and never ceases to bless and care for and protect His faithful children. God bless you.

 

[Neoplatonist]

EDIT:

Have I ever accused you of withholding trust and hope? No. I have accused you of judging God by human standards, which you most certainly do and which is wrong of you. Why, you have even judged Him by human standards in this last email of yours regarding parenting. God IS our loving Parent, and He possesses EVERYTHING that we need, and He gratuitously and freely gives us whatever we need and ask for that is best for us; so it is not perverse or wrong of Him to have us depend completely on Him, seeing He knows what is best for us and has EVERYTHING we truly need and seeing He does not withhold what we truly need whenever we humbly ask Him for it; we are shortsighted and helpless when it comes to knowing that which is the very best for our souls, so it is BEST that we put all our trust in God and depend solely on Him. As His *faithful *children, we can pray to Him for His love, blessings, providential care and protection with 100% trust that He will never cease to love us, bless us, care for us and protect us, for He is our Father who loves us inestimably and never ceases to bless and care for and protect His faithful children. God bless you.

Why is attempting to reconcile conflicting models of our understanding of God seen as “judging” God for you? I’m working to fit discordant pieces of our intellectual puzzle together. Judging someone indicates that I am claiming they do or do not measure up to some standard. If you are right and the utter dependency is the more accurate part of our attempt to fit our limited intellects to him, let’s kick away the pretense of applying human concepts like “father” to him at all, since the term seems to be strained by more misfits than fits.