God didn’t impose anything on us. If I tell you, “if you step out in front of that train then you will die”, I didn’t impose anything on you.Negative consequences and suffering that He imposes on all mankind because of Adam’s weakness. Maybe you have a different meaning of “punishment.” What would you call the imposition of negative consequences in Genesis?
God did not impose suffering on mankind, God gave them a choice between good and evil, they were given the freedom not to obey Him, they imposed it on themselves by their own choice. God gave them a free will. They could have made a good choice, then there would be no negative consequences.Negative consequences and suffering that He imposes on all mankind because of Adam’s weakness. Maybe you have a different meaning of “punishment.” What would you call the imposition of negative consequences in Genesis?
Sure, if I make a punishment machine, but don’t tell you about it, and then you set it in motion . . . But who makes a train that will cripple you and all of your descendants for all time?God didn’t impose anything on us. If I tell you, “if you step out in front of that train then you will die”, I didn’t impose anything on you.
We suffer because of the result of sin in this world, not because God is punishing us. If this was true then only evil people would get sick and die.Sure, if I make a punishment machine, but don’t tell you about it, and then you set it in motion . . . But who makes a train that will cripple you and all of your descendants for all time?
The rain and wind are unthinking and unforgiving forces of nature, your god is supposedly all-powerful and all-knowing who should actually care enough to help those who have done nothing to deserve such a fate.When my daughter was young she asked me why it was that if Adam and Eve sinned and they made the bad choice of disobeying God, why do we have to suffer on this earth for their sin? I explained it this way. ** If you built a beautiful house and someone made a whole in the roof (Adam and Eve’s sin) everyone in the house will be cold and the rain will fall on them all even though they were not responsible for it.** The damage was done. Death, sickness, etc. was brought into the world. and everyone suffered because of the fall of man, and the gates of Heaven were closed. Jesus came into the world to correct this. Jesus was good and obedient and suffered and died because He loves us, and if we are obedient we will one day be in Heaven with Him. It will not be easy in this life. You may even be persecuted for your Faith but the reward you will receive in Heaven will be great.
So you see death, illnesses etc. are the result of sin, and everyone suffers for it, even if they are not directly responsible for it. At least that is the way I see it.
That WOULD be a far more just system then the Christian set-up.We suffer because of the result of sin in this world, not because God is punishing us. If this was true then only evil people would get sick and die.
Except that it was hardly a free choice.God did not impose suffering on mankind, God gave them a choice between good and evil, they were given the freedom not to obey Him, they imposed it on themselves by their own choice. God gave them a free will. They could have made a good choice, then there would be no negative consequences.
No one is being punished. Creation is wholly good and beautiful. I’m getting a little better picture of why you may be having the issues you are. You have a very distorted image of God my friend.Sure, if I make a punishment machine, but don’t tell you about it, and then you set it in motion . . . But who makes a train that will cripple you and all of your descendants for all time?
He did help us. He gave us complete control over nature and we rejected it. You can’t blame God for that. If we had not rejected God and if we had faith we could rebuke the wind and rain. But we chose to enthrone ourselves as god instead of God. In fact many great saints were so holy they could speak to animals and control nature.The rain and wind are unthinking and unforgiving forces of nature, your god is supposedly all-powerful and all-knowing who should actually care enough to help those who have done nothing to deserve such a fate.
So the analogy falls apart.
If that’s your view of God no wonder you reject Him. Thankfully your view has nothing to do with reality.Except that it was hardly a free choice.
When Adam and Eve were so ignorant and innocent that they didn’t know why disobeying God was wrong, in addition when they were being supposedly manipulated by the devil then know reasonable person could put the blame on them.
It’s the equivalent of beating your child half to death for getting kidnapped by a stranger.
Again who is we?He did help us. **He gave us complete control over nature and we rejected it. **You can’t blame God for that. If we had not rejected God and if we had faith we could rebuke the wind and rain. But we chose to enthrone ourselves as god instead of God. In fact many great saints were so holy they could speak to animals and control nature.
Technically correct because neither does your god.If that’s your view of God no wonder you reject Him. Thankfully your view has nothing to do with reality.
Sure it does if you would have it.Again who is we?
It certainly doesn’t include anyone alive.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantula_hawkNo one is being punished. Creation is wholly good and beautiful. I’m getting a little better picture of why you may be having the issues you are. You have a very distorted image of God my friend.
So you claim.Sure it does if you would have it.
So I know.So you claim.
That’s a beautiful insect.
He did help us, He sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins as it was the sin of man that separated us. Every sin we commit from our own free will separates us further, but reparation can be made for our sins. You can ask for forgiveness. You can help the poor. You can go one day without eating (fasting), and most importantly you can pray, because God is there for those who truly seek Him and He will guide you. If you pray with an insincere heart what good is that? You think Christians are crazy people because our beliefs do not fit your logic. That is your choice because God gave a free will to all. If we choose God does not make us perfect but with prayer, penance and good deeds it brings us closer to God and an everlasting life in heaven after death. Yes God loves us. That is why He sent Jesus. When you choose Christ that does not mean you will have a carefree life. Many saints suffered greatly, but they did for Jesus and the salvation of other sinners as we can pray and suffer for all sinners so they may get to heaven also. For many centuries people have understood this. There were convents for people to devote their life to prayer and good works for the good of all. We can pray to the saints to intercede for us, they also work for the good of all, as they have already made their journey to heaven. God has not abandoned us and never will. At least that is what I have learned and believe. As I have a free will I am free to change my way of thinking as are you. I hope I will see things even more clearly one day. Until then I will put my trust in God and continue to seek His guidance.The rain and wind are unthinking and unforgiving forces of nature, your god is supposedly all-powerful and all-knowing who should actually care enough to help those who have done nothing to deserve such a fate.
So the analogy falls apart.
More baseless claims.So I know.
When the coming of the communists, the Russians in China were forced once again to flee, most through the Philippines. At one time 5,000 of the refugees were living in an Internaltional Refugee Organization camp on the island of Tubabao, located in the path of typhons.
When the fear of typhons was mentioned by one Russian to the Filipinos, they replied that there was no reason to worry, because " ‘your holy man blesses your camp from four directions every night.’ They referred to Vladika John, for no typhoon struck the island while he was there." - Life of St John of San Francisco
On Spruce Island there once occurred a flood. The inhabitants came to the Elder in great fear. Father Herman then took an icon of the Mother of God from the home where his students lived, and placed it on a “laida” (a sandy bank) and began to pray. After his prayer he turned to those present and said, “Have no fear, the water will not go any higher than the place where this holy icon stands.” The words of the Elder were fullfilled. After this he promised the same aid from this holy icon in the future through the intercessions of the Most Immaculate Queen. He entrusted the icon to his disciple, Sophia; in case of future floods the icon was to be placed on the “laida.” - Life of St Herman of Alaska