Does God want everyone to be Catholic?

[berk60]

I think you misunderstand the truth about salvation. God grants his grace to those who are in his Church through the sacraments. When your mom had you baptized, she was promising to raise you in the faith. You became a member of the church and you entered the state of grace, whether you understood that or not. That grace allowed you to do good works if you chose to. If you chose to sin instead, you fell from grace. To re-enter the state of grace, you must partake of sacramental confession. You must die in the state of grace to enter heaven. Jesus initiated the sacraments precisely because they are physical ways for physical beings to gain the grace you need to be saved and STAY saved. Are you familiar with this very basic church teaching? If not, don’t feel bad. There are legions of poorly catechized catholics out there. But that doesn’t make the truths about salvation any less real. And here at Catholic Answers, you can learn all that you need to know about salvation.
Baptism does save you by putting you in the state of grace. But you are right in that if you sin, you fall from grace and that if you don’t reconcile with God, you will be condemned.

Yes, it does

This is certainly a good thing to do. But Jesus set up his Apostles to forgive sins in his name and as the church grew, they in turn ordained priests to carry out the sacrament of reconciliation in the name of the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit. Why wouldn’t you follow the process Jesus set out for the forgiveness of sins, instead of assuming that you can do it your own way?

The process of sanctification begins at baptism, when you get the graces necessary to move forward in Christ. The Holy spirit is with you from that point forward. But you need to cooperate with God’s grace to be sanctified. What you are seeing as the coming of the holy spirit is actually instead your increased openess to HIm.

Go back and read John 3 again… You will see that you are born again through water and spirit (baptism)

Let me ask you this. Who tells you the true meaning fo what you read in the Bible? As anyone who converses with people of different faiths clearly recognizes, there are many different ways to interpret the same bible passages. So how do you know what the bible really means when it says, for instance, that faith without works is dead (James 2:24)? Who is your final authority? Is it you? your pastor at the Bible Church? If you are honest with yourself, you will realize that you must rely on some human authority, since you weren’t there when the bible was written. And that’s where Catholic Tradition and the magesterium (the pope and the bishops) come in. They pass on to us what they have heard from their predecessors, with the knowledge going all the way back to the authors of the new testament books.

And now, at last, we come to the truth. You find the truth burdensome and want to make your own truths. Consider this, you are fooling no one but yourself when you try to bend the truth to your desires instead of bending your desires to the truth

The full truth about salvation and the grace giving sacraments.

This sounds like works! Almost like saying Jesus tapped the grace tree and now man has to keep it flowing. Human nature loves to try to contribute to salvation when in all reality Jesus has done it all on the cross. This takes true humility to admit that Jesus has paid the price once for all and there in not a thing that you can do to add to it.

When Jesus assended to be at the Fathers right hand He sent the Holy Spirit to every born again believer so that believer could decern scripture.

 

[steve_b]

Water baptism does not make you born again.

Who says?

 

[berk60]

Everytime you open your Bible and read it, you submit to the authority of the Catholic Church…even if you are not aware of it.

Berk60 - where do you think the Bible came from?

catholicbible101.com/theholybible.htm

I think you confuse the early catholic church to what it is today. There has been soooo… many additions to the Catholic church that is look nothing like the early church.

If you are saying that I am submitting to the ways of the early church that you find in the New Testament, the yes for sure.

If your saying I am submitting to the Catholic church of 2013, then I would say not at all.

It is not the same church even though it has retained the name.

 

[JamesCaruso]

This sounds like works! Almost like saying Jesus tapped the grace tree and now man has to keep it flowing. Human nature loves to try to contribute to salvation when in all reality Jesus has done it all on the cross. This takes true humility to admit that Jesus has paid the price once for all and there in not a thing that you can do to add to it.

When Jesus assended to be at the Fathers right hand He sent the Holy Spirit to every born again believer so that believer could decern scripture.

Well, I don’t think anyone is trying to say that they are adding to the full and complete price for out salvation when they such things as: “Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church.” Col 1:24 But I do think they are saying that we can join our suffering to His and thereby give them redemptive value in the larger scheme of things.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

When Luther, after denying human liberty on which all good works rest, was driven to the makeshift of “fiducial faith” as the sole means of appropriating the fruits of Redemption, he not only fell short of, but also ran counter to, the plain teaching of the New Testament calling upon us to deny ourselves and carry our cross (Matthew 16:24), to walk in the footsteps of the Crucified (1 Peter 2:21), to suffer with Christ in order to be glorified with Him (Rom. viii, 17), in a word to fill up those things that are wanting to the sufferings of Christ (Colossians 1:24). Far from detracting from the perfection of Redemption, our daily efforts toward the imitation of Christ are the test of its efficacy and the fruits of its fecundity. “All our glory”, says the Council of Trent, “is in Christ in whom we live, and merit, and satisfy, doing worthy fruits of penance which from Him derive their virtue, by Him are presented to the Father, and through Him find acceptance with God” (Sess. XIV, c. viii) newadvent.org/cathen/12677d.htm

 

[JamesCaruso]

When Jesus assended to be at the Fathers right hand He sent the Holy Spirit to every born again believer so that believer could decern scripture.

Uh, great job they’re done with that! I guess Luther, Calvin, Knox, Zwingli, and other Protestant reformers must have been discerning with other than the Holy Spirit because they all came away with differing views about what the Scriptures said. Truth is, this is precisely why Christ gave the authority to discern Holy Scriptures to His Apostles, who had their first Council in Jerusalem, as I recall, to decide whether circumcision was necessary for new Christians, seeing that good men were on both sides of the issue. Yes, the Holy Spirit helps us to discern, but the final authority resides in Christ’s Church, the Catholic Church.

 

[steve_b]

Faith plus corporal "penance,flesh beating, wearing burlap,repetitious prayers to gain grace is also an invention that Luther tried as a Catholic and found to be quite vain and fruitless. I am not lutheran nor am I a Calvinist ,and for sure all their writings and words were not inspired .In fact Luther kept much from his upbringing. But as far as salvation apart from the Catholic church method ,which is what they really proposed,that is not new. The proper role of faith and scripture were set to be restored by the reformers. Faith alone, sola escriptura are limited definitions that must be taken in context of the perversion of practice of the time. The CC interpretation of “tradition” was not from the beginning either.
So sola fide and escriptura and CC tradition should not have been necesssary but they exist, in collision, in offset.

You may not be Lutheran, but you’re Protestant, which makes Luther your father in faith. That’s because he is the father of the Protestant revolt from the Catholic Church. Following him came Henry VIII, and Calvin, etc etc + 30,000 + Protestant denominations down to our day.

Here’s what the scriptures say about the faith and division.

Rom 1: 1 Paul, a servant * of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God. 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures, 3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and designated * Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5* through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including yourselves who are called to belong to Jesus Christ; 7* To all God’s beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8* First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world.

Rom 16: 17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I would have you wise as to what is good and guileless as to what is evil; 20 then the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

Gal 5: 19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Given the warning and the consequence for division and those who do it, and notice there is no expiration date to this warning, how do you interpret this warning considering your own situation as a Protestant?

 

[steve_b]

Human nature loves to try to contribute to salvation when in all reality Jesus has done it all on the cross. This takes true humility to admit that Jesus has paid the price once for all and there in not a thing that you can do to add to it.

Who said that He did His part so we don’t have to do our part? Give me a name please.
berk:

When Jesus assended to be at the Fathers right hand He sent the Holy Spirit to every born again believer so that believer could decern scripture.

So the HS is the cause of all the confusion and division from Our Lord’s Church?

 

[steve_b]

I think you confuse the early catholic church to what it is today. There has been soooo… many additions to the Catholic church that is look nothing like the early church.

They’re the same. Pope Francis the 266th successor to St Peter is over the worldwide Catholic Church. Outside of which there is no salvation

 

[paul_c]

This sounds like works! Almost like saying Jesus tapped the grace tree and now man has to keep it flowing. Human nature loves to try to contribute to salvation when in all reality Jesus has done it all on the cross. This takes true humility to admit that Jesus has paid the price once for all and there in not a thing that you can do to add to it.

You can’t add to grace, but you have to cooperate with it to stay in the state of grace. You talked about sanctification in a previous post. That requires you t o cooperate with grace. If you not to do the good works to which you have been called and thereby commit sin, then you lose grace. It takes humility to recognize that you have to do God’s will, not just your own to get to heaven. And by the way, have you never read the epistle of St. James. How do you answer his statement that faith without work is dead?

Can’t you hear Satan calling, " Go ahead and sin, Jesus has saved you by his death and resurrection. There’s nothing you can do to add to that!" Quite a cleaver deception.

Isn’t it obvious that to enter heaven, we need to learn to avoid sin because nothing unclean will enter heaven.

When Jesus assended to be at the Fathers right hand He sent the Holy Spirit to every born again believer so that believer could decern scripture.

This is a false doctrine. How do you explain the fact that born again believers interpret the same scriptural passages differently if they are all given the power to discern scripture. There can be only one truth so only one valid interpretation.

 

[paul_c]

I think you confuse the early catholic church to what it is today. There has been soooo… many additions to the Catholic church that is look nothing like the early church.

Be honest with yourself. How much have you studied Church history? Have you read any of the church fathers? If you haven’t, how do you know what the early church looked like? In fact, the mass described by Justin Martyr in 150 AD follows the same flow with the same content as the current Catholic mass. And you won’t find any Current CAtholic doctrine in opposition to what the Chruch Fathers taught.

If you are saying that I am submitting to the ways of the early church that you find in the New Testament, the yes for sure.

You must be kidding. You don’t even believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. That has been fundamental to the faith since the beginning. Paul even describes it in 1 Corinthians 11.

If your saying I am submitting to the Catholic church of 2013, then I would say not at all.

this much seems obvious

It is not the same church even though it has retained the name.

In what ways. Sure, the church has grown form 3000 on Pentecost to 1.2 Billion now. But it can trace its doctrine and hierarchy back to the Apostles.

 

[pocohombre]

You may not be Lutheran, but you’re Protestant, which makes Luther your father in faith. That’s because he is the father of the Protestant revolt from the Catholic Church. Following him came Henry VIII, and Calvin, etc etc + 30,000 + Protestant denominations down to our day.

Here’s what the scriptures say about the faith and division.

Rom 1: 1 Paul, a servant * of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God. 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures, 3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and designated * Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5* through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including yourselves who are called to belong to Jesus Christ; 7* To all God’s beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8* First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world.

Rom 16: 17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I would have you wise as to what is good and guileless as to what is evil; 20 then the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

Gal 5: 19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Given the warning and the consequence for division and those who do it, and notice there is no expiration date to this warning, how do you interpret this warning considering your own situation as a Protestant?

There are not 30,000 denominations.This is pure propaganda which i cajole with and say it is 40,00 and growing.No one has ever given good documentation to such statistical error.

 

[pocohombre]

You may not be Lutheran, but you’re Protestant, which makes Luther your father in faith. That’s because he is the father of the Protestant revolt from the Catholic Church. Following him came Henry VIII, and Calvin, etc etc + 30,000 + Protestant denominations down to our day.

Here’s what the scriptures say about the faith and division.

Rom 1: 1 Paul, a servant * of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God. 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures, 3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and designated * Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5* through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including yourselves who are called to belong to Jesus Christ; 7* To all God’s beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8* First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world.

Rom 16: 17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I would have you wise as to what is good and guileless as to what is evil; 20 then the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

Gal 5: 19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Given the warning and the consequence for division and those who do it, and notice there is no expiration date to this warning, how do you interpret this warning considering your own situation as a Protestant?

“Thou shalt not make a schism but shalt pacify them that contend”. Seems like it is a two way street. How did Rome pacify Huss or Waldo or Tyndale or Wycliffe, Savonarola?

 

[pocohombre]

You can’t add to grace, but you have to cooperate with it to stay in the state of grace. You talked about sanctification in a previous post. That requires you t o cooperate with grace. If you not to do the good works to which you have been called and thereby commit sin, then you lose grace. It takes humility to recognize that you have to do God’s will, not just your own to get to heaven. And by the way, have you never read the epistle of St. James. How do you answer his statement that faith without work is dead?

Can’t you hear Satan calling, " Go ahead and sin, Jesus has saved you by his death and resurrection. There’s nothing you can do to add to that!" Quite a cleaver deception.

Isn’t it obvious that to enter heaven, we need to learn to avoid sin because nothing unclean will enter heaven.

This is a false doctrine. How do you explain the fact that born again believers interpret the same scriptural passages differently if they are all given the power to discern scripture. There can be only one truth so only one valid interpretation.

Is perfection now the test for true doctrine? So you say it is only “magisterium” that interprets but who cares for it is still problematic and not perfect for beyond your magisterium you have a variety of practices, beliefs within individual members of the Catholic church. For instance not all Catholics believe her churches contraception,abortion, teachings…Using your criteria of perfection in efficacy the bible, parents, teachers even Jesus himself is of no avail for none of them gave Peter the final truth, illumination as to whom Jesus is, for it was the Father above who illumined him personally ( not the Sanhedrin or Rabbis or Talmud/Torah)…That there are a variety of interpretations does not negate the fact God still divinely, personally reveals. How do you explain that two people on opposite sides of the world come up with the same interpretation of a scriptural thing? How are they so…catholic?

 

[steve_b]

There are not 30,000 denominations.This is pure propaganda which i cajole with and say it is 40,00 and growing.No one has ever given good documentation to such statistical error.

each Protestant group, by each group name, is its own denomiation. No ONE controls protestantism. It is division on steroids. The one thing they have in common, they are all outside the Church.

 

[steve_b]

“Thou shalt not make a schism but shalt pacify them that contend”. Seems like it is a two way street. How did Rome pacify Huss or Waldo or Tyndale or Wycliffe, Savonarola?

Look back on the 2000 year history of the Catholic Church. The Church always responded to those who would try and divide the Church. The point is, those who divide or are divided, are going to have to answer to God for it. It appears Paul warned them twice. That’s all. Galatians 5:21

 

[Bioshima]

I believe the answer is YES! But I also believe that God doesn’t forsake anyone that is a non Catholic, as long as they believe in the same God and His only son Jesus. It’s better than not believing at all. I do hope that all non Catholics would find the beauty and warmth in my religion that I have come to deeply love and cling to, for sanity, for help, for peace, etc. We should not judge each other with how we interpret the bible as we are all sinners and prone to error, but we can pray for the Holy Spirit to help us decipher/understand what we read and learn, so we will know if what is being taught is true or whether we should follow same - our hearts would tell us somehow. We all make judgment errors but if we keep seeing the goodness in everything, we’ll know the right answers eventually.

I was a Catholic through blind-faith, just going with what you were born with because its what you’re told do from young. I never could stick to the norm until I could prove to myself that the ‘norm’ was the best way to follow. I am not a theologian, or priest, just a normal human being trying to keep from sin, and make sense of everything, and I still struggle to be a good Catholic like alot of people i guess/like to think. I am also well educated and have studied at university level in business which has helped in running my business today, so I believe my ability to make judgments on some matters can’t be that far off the radar.

Since I was young there were a number of life changing events that I guess most people might say were mere coincidences and for probably half my life I agreed as I didn’t know any better. Then there was all the ongoing informal debates on which religion was the true one. I couldn’t say for sure that mine was the true religion, after all I didn’t know whether my own religion was true.

Due to the challenges in my life, and seeing so many religions around, I decided to find out more about other religions. I attended a lot of other churches, even attend their prayer meetings (to respect those other non Carholics I won’t say which churches I attended). Anyway, I even read some testimonies of non Catholics that did the same thing, and ended up being baptised as Catholics. There were no priests around that I could seek wisdom from, majority of the time due to my demanding job during that time as I travelled a lot and any free time was taken up by my Masters degree. So I learned more about other religions from my friends who were non Catholics, and their pastors).In all that time, I never once felt that my Catholic faith was the ‘wrong religion’. What my research made me do, was made my belief and faith in Catholicism more stronger than ever. In almost all the other churches I attended, they all tried to argue against the Catholic Church. I thought to myself, if your religion is the correct one to follow, why do you have to condemn others? We don’t have to do that but speak kindly of others, that is I believe the true Catholic trait is and should be practised by all Catholics. We all can make mistakes and like some other Catholics, have brought shame to our religion, but that is because the closer we want to be with God and do everything right for the love of Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit, the closer the devil is to us to try and derail us through adversities etc. But let’s keep trying and praying that our brothers and sister who aren’t yet Catholics will not be derailed by the works of the devil against the Catholic Church by the scandals to priests that he’s managed to achieve, but pray that everyone will see the diamond in the church and its principals and teachings that us Catholics see and value and believe. I don’t believe that if they aren’t Catholic, then God will think less of them, especially if they don’t know the true beauty of being a Catholic or had the opportunity to fully understand being a Catholic. I know of a lot of Catholics that don’t go to church, and also a lot of Catholics that do go to church but their understanding of our religion is very very different and very limited. I am still learning and seeking understanding and everyday I learn something. Whatever negatives the church is facing right now, isn’t adversely affecting my faith because I know enough to say the religion is right, it’s the people that is making it look wrong. It is also those that have more hunger to be closer to The Lord that are being hit badly with criticism etc. I pray for our Lords help for them.

Sorry to write too much. I kept on typing without realising I’d written too much but hope you see some sense in the message I’m trying to convey. God Bless us all.

 

[paul_c]

[/QUQuote:
Originally Posted by paul c View Post
You can’t add to grace, but you have to cooperate with it to stay in the state of grace. You talked about sanctification in a previous post. That requires you t o cooperate with grace. If you not to do the good works to which you have been called and thereby commit sin, then you lose grace. It takes humility to recognize that you have to do God’s will, not just your own to get to heaven. And by the way, have you never read the epistle of St. James. How do you answer his statement that faith without work is dead?

Perfection in what way? If by perfection, you mean the truth, then yes that is the
test for true doctrine.

So you say it is only “magisterium” that interprets but who cares for it is still problematic and not perfect for beyond your magisterium you have a variety of practices, beliefs within individual members of the Catholic church. For instance not all Catholics believe her churches contraception,abortion, teachings.

The church teaches the truth. The fact that not all self described Catholics accept the truth is an indictment of those individuals themselves, not the church. And frankly , some Catholics that currently choose to beleive other than what the Church teaches, by the grace of God may change their minds in the future as they learn more about their faith. I did.

…Using your criteria of perfection in efficacy the bible, parents, teachers even Jesus himself is of no avail for none of them gave Peter the final truth, illumination as to whom Jesus is, for it was the Father above who illumined him personally ( not the Sanhedrin or Rabbis or Talmud/Torah)…

I’m not sure what point you are making but God does not contradict himself. There is one truth and if you find contradictions, your interpretations are wrong.

…That there are a variety of interpretations does not negate the fact God still divinely, personally reveals. How do you explain that two people on opposite sides of the world come up with the same interpretation of a scriptural thing? How are they so…catholic?

Sure God reveals the truth. But how do you know when the interpretation is from God or just imagined or worse yet, inspired by Satan. Remember, people like Jim Jones and Charles Manson claimed to have valid interpretations from God and tragically mislead many people.

With the magesterium, we have the assurance of Jesus that he would remain with the Church forever. When you break from the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church you can guarantee that you are getting falsehoods instead. Don’t you see that it is Satan’s primary goal to pry people away from the Church Jesus founded to save them?

[/QUOTE]

 

[pocohombre]

each Protestant group, by each group name, is its own denomiation. No ONE controls protestantism. It is division on steroids. The one thing they have in common, they are all outside the Church.

Thanks for zero documentattion, again. There are 3 Protetstnt groups I believe. You have 4 zeros too many… .Have you ever heard of the power of nothing (in this case “no one”)? What does the Earth spin on? Does it (what it spins on) need constant maintenance,repair, reformation?.. What does your relationship to Jesus depend on? If it all were taken away could you survive? Would you find the essence, the strength of that relationship?.. The Church thrived quite well without the papacy those first few centuries, and the Orthodox show it does thereafter also.

 

[pocohombre]

Look back on the 2000 year history of the Catholic Church. The Church always responded to those who would try and divide the Church. The point is, those who divide or are divided, are going to have to answer to God for it. It appears Paul warned them twice. That’s all. Galatians 5:21

That is right .Amen Let us not make schism by proclaiming things to believed on that are not of God, by adding new man made commandments. Why should Rome tell Eastern churches when to abandon their apostolic tradition of an Easter date celebration? Was that proper control back in the early church, a hint of things to come? Silly schisms?

 

[pocohombre]

Perfection in what way? If by perfection, you mean the truth, then yes that is the
test for true doctrine.
The church teaches the truth. The fact that not all self described Catholics accept the truth is an indictment of those individuals themselves, not the church. And frankly , some Catholics that currently choose to beleive other than what the Church teaches, by the grace of God may change their minds in the future as they learn more about their faith. I did.
I’m not sure what point you are making but God does not contradict himself. There is one truth and if you find contradictions, your interpretations are wrong.
Sure God reveals the truth. But how do you know when the interpretation is from God or just imagined or worse yet, inspired by Satan. Remember, people like Jim Jones and Charles Manson claimed to have valid interpretations from God and tragically mislead many people.

With the magesterium, we have the assurance of Jesus that he would remain with the Church forever. When you break from the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church you can guarantee that you are getting falsehoods instead. Don’t you see that it is Satan’s primary goal to pry people away from the Church Jesus founded to save them?

But does God reveal the truth personally or just to a magisterium, your magisterium? You previously negated personal revelation cause not all get it or hear improperly.