Does God want everyone to be Catholic?

[paul_c]

Thanks for zero documentattion, again.

come on, Poco, There is evidence of the proliferation of Protestant sects in you local phone book. I’ll bet in your own experience, you know of people who became disallusioned by some facet of the church they were attending and when off and started their own.

There are 3 Protetstnt groups I believe. You have 4 zeros too many…

This is interesting, what 3 do you recognize? And why don’t you recognize the rest?

.Have you ever heard of the power of nothing (in this case “no one”)? What does the Earth spin on? Does it (what it spins on) need constant maintenance,repair, reformation?..

I’m curious as to why you think this has an relevance to the question at hand.

What does your relationship to Jesus depend on?

The grace found in His sacraments, particularly the Eucharist

If it all were taken away could you survive?

Physically, sure, for a while. But I would miss it spiritually almost immediately

Would you find the essence, the strength of that relationship?..

Poco, you simply have no idea what you are missing.

… The Church thrived quite well without the papacy those first few centuries, and the Orthodox show it does thereafter also.

Poco, there were Pope’s leading the church for its entire history, starting of course with Saint Peter. As for the Orthodox, there is no single unified Orthodox church, there are 14 or 15, depending on who is counting , they are unified theologically, but separated from each other to the point that many do not accept the other’s sacraments. In total, there are no more than 300M Orthodox in the world, compared to 1.2B Catholics. Their " first among equal" Patriarch, Constantinople has been in Muslim control since 1453 and their main church, Hagia Sophia was converted first to a Mosque and now is a museum.
While the Catholic Church recognizes the apostlic succession of the Orthodox church and theologically has very few issues with them, can you truly say they are thriving in comparison to the Catholic Church?

 

[paul_c]

But does God reveal the truth personally or just to a magisterium, your magisterium? You previously negated personal revelation cause not all get it or hear improperly.

We believe that God revealed all the truths necessary for salvation to the Apostles and that those have been passed down through the magesterium to the present day. That said, there are valid personal revelations that are deemed worthy of acknowledgement by the church (like the Marian visitations at Guadalupe, Fatima and Lourdes). But these are never in conflict with the Apostolic truths and no Catholic is obligated to believe private revelations, even of the saints.

 

[StillCatholic]

The order of salvation is to repent and then be baptised This is why I was baptised again. I was baptised as an infant because my mom wanted it for me and I had no idea what was happening and didn’t even know how to say the word repent let alone understand the need to repent.

I think that you believe that by merely receiving the sacrament of baptism without any type of repentance it can save you. So logically it makes sense to baptise a baby before there is any chance of death. True salvation only comes when a person realizes that they are a sinner and comes to the cross for forgiveness by asking Jesus to forgive his sins by the His shed blood. Once this is done the Holy spirit becomes part of the person and he begins the progression of santification by God. This is being born again as Jesus told Nicodimus.

The bible church has the bible as it’s final authority because it is God’s inspired word where the Catholic church has man as it’s final authority hrough it’s traditions. Living my life for Christ according to just His word has lifted the burden of the Catholic law from me and set me free.

What have I given up by leaving the Catholic church?

What have you given up by leaving the Catholic church??? WHOA! Lots! The first and foremost being His real presence in the Holy Eucharist. But, what you are also missing is that having the Bible ALONE freestanding, no accountability to anyone for your understanding of it and response to it…this is huge…is leaving a big gap in your spiritual growth. When I left the Catholic church I felt so free. Wahoo! Freedom! I reveled in the freedom to read the Word and understand it from my inside my heart, out. I never dreamed of how dangerous that can be. The scriptures tell us how deceptively wicked the heart is, who can know it?

Sacred traditions of the Catholic Church are not traditions in the common sense, like we celebrate Thanksgiving, or birthdays or this or that. Sacred Traditions are what we have passed down to us from the beginning of church history mostly in the form of Oral traditions eventually written down and spread throughout the then known world as the church began to grow too large and heresy began to take over the Oral tradition. These sacred traditions were established by the Apostles themselves as they received them from the Lord both before and after his death and resurrection.

 

[Prieldedi]

There are not 30,000 denominations.This is pure propaganda which i cajole with and say it is 40,00 and growing.No one has ever given good documentation to such statistical error.

Check The Facts and Stats on 33,000 Denominations, and analysis of the World Christian Encyclopedia, a protestant publication by Barrett, Kurian, Johnson (Oxford Univ Press, 2nd edition, 2001). This Encyclopedia lists 33,000 total Christian denominations worldwide, including among them the Catholic Church.

Michael J. McClymond (“Making sense of the census, or, what 1.999.563.838 Christians might mean for the study of religion”, Journal of the American Academy of Religion 70 (December): 875-890, 2002) notes that while the articles in the World Christian Encyclopedia are generally neutral, some passages have an anti-catholic and pro-Protestant orientation.

By 2007 the 33,000 number grew to 39,000, and it’s projected to reach 55,000 by the year 2025.

 

[chero23]

Thanks for zero documentattion, again. There are 3 Protetstnt groups I believe. You have 4 zeros too many… .Have you ever heard of the power of nothing (in this case “no one”)? What does the Earth spin on? Does it (what it spins on) need constant maintenance,repair, reformation?.. What does your relationship to Jesus depend on? If it all were taken away could you survive? Would you find the essence, the strength of that relationship?.. The Church thrived quite well without the papacy those first few centuries, and the Orthodox show it does thereafter also.

you need to do some history pocohombre. Their has been a pope since Peter. Granted there was a 2 or 3 yr span were the Cardinals could not get someone elected, that is were Conclave comes from now. but the Church has always had 1 pastor. Just like God said it, I want 1 pastor leading all my flock. I dont remember him stating I want 45,000 pastors leading my flock

 

[steve_b]

Thanks for zero documentattion, again. There are 3 Protetstnt groups I believe.

Look in any phone book. Look at each Protestant group they call a “church”. Who rules each “church”? They are all seperate operations. If you have 10 protestant “churches” you have 10 seperate organizations each with their own head. That’s 10 sects / denominations right there. Multiply that by every Protestant “church” and you have the number of sects / denominations of Protestants.
p:

Have you ever heard of the power of nothing (in this case “no one”)? What does the Earth spin on? Does it (what it spins on) need constant maintenance,repair, reformation?.. What does your relationship to Jesus depend on? If it all were taken away could you survive? Would you find the essence, the strength of that relationship?

Protestantism began in the 16th century. It was a rebelion against the Catholic Church. Since scripture condemns division from the Church, one can’t unring that bell. It is a condemnation that has no expiration date to it. God did not start Protestantism, heretics did, in all its forms. The only wiggle room a Protestant might have, is one’s ignorance, providing that ignorance is innocent. There is no such thing as feigned ignorance. Feigned ignorance is pretense at ignorance.
p:

The Church thrived quite well without the papacy those first few centuries,

Really? Looking from the 5th century back to the first

Augustine lists the popes in succession from Peter, down to his day.

Letter 53 Ch 1 vs 2. There’s a reason to do that you know.

Or, how about this?

Council of Ephesus
“Philip the presbyter and legate of the Apostolic See said: ‘There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors. The holy and most blessed pope Celestine, according to due order, is his successor and holds his place, and us he sent to supply his place in this holy synod’” (Acts of the Council, session 3 [A.D. 431]).

Or how about Irenaeus, disciple of Bishop Polycarp who was a disciple of St John the apostle

[Bk 3 http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103303.htm”]Chapter 3 vs 2-3] notice in vs 3, he names 12 bishops of Rome in succession from Peter down to his day.

Or how about pope Clement, who settles sedition among the bishops in Corinth Greece. St John is still alive living in Ephesus at the time Clement is asked by Corinth for his assistance in settling a serious problem. btw, Ephesus is much closer in distance to Corinth than Rome. Clement’s First Epistle
p:

and the Orthodox show it does thereafter also.

The Orthodox are having difficulties of their own.

“We are increasingly conscious of the fact that an Orthodox Church does not really exist,” he contends. “At the present stage, it does not seem that Constantinople is yet capable of integrating the different autocephalous Orthodox Churches; there are doubts about its primacy of honor, especially in Moscow.”

zenit.org/en/articles/the-crisis-of-ecumenism-according-to-cardinal-kasper

 

[peace2u2]

They’re the same. Pope Francis the 266th successor to St Peter is over the worldwide Catholic Church. Outside of which there is no salvation

newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

In case you couldn’t open the link:

The List of Popes

See also POPE, PAPAL ELECTIONS, ELECTION OF THE POPE.
1.St. Peter (32-67)
2.St. Linus (67-76)
3.St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
4.St. Clement I (88-97)
5.St. Evaristus (97-105)
6.St. Alexander I (105-115)
7.St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
8.St. Telesphorus (125-136)
9.St. Hyginus (136-140)
10.St. Pius I (140-155)
11.St. Anicetus (155-166)
12.St. Soter (166-175)
13.St. Eleutherius (175-189)
14.St. Victor I (189-199)
15.St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
16.St. Callistus I (217-22) Callistus and the following three popes were opposed by St. Hippolytus, antipope (217-236)
17.St. Urban I (222-30)
18.St. Pontain (230-35)
19.St. Anterus (235-36)
20.St. Fabian (236-50)
21.St. Cornelius (251-53) Opposed by Novatian, antipope (251)
22.St. Lucius I (253-54)
23.St. Stephen I (254-257)
24.St. Sixtus II (257-258)
25.St. Dionysius (260-268)
26.St. Felix I (269-274)
27.St. Eutychian (275-283)
28.St. Caius (283-296) Also called Gaius
29.St. Marcellinus (296-304)
30.St. Marcellus I (308-309)
31.St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
32.St. Miltiades (311-14)
33.St. Sylvester I (314-35)
34.St. Marcus (336)
35.St. Julius I (337-52)
36.Liberius (352-66) Opposed by Felix II, antipope (355-365)
37.St. Damasus I (366-83) Opposed by Ursicinus, antipope (366-367)
38.St. Siricius (384-99)
39.St. Anastasius I (399-401)
40.St. Innocent I (401-17)
41.St. Zosimus (417-18)
42.St. Boniface I (418-22) Opposed by Eulalius, antipope (418-419)
43.St. Celestine I (422-32)
44.St. Sixtus III (432-40)
45.St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
46.St. Hilarius (461-68)
47.St. Simplicius (468-83)
48.St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
49.St. Gelasius I (492-96)
50.Anastasius II (496-98)
51.St. Symmachus (498-514) Opposed by Laurentius, antipope (498-501)
52.St. Hormisdas (514-23)
53.St. John I (523-26)
54.St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
55.Boniface II (530-32) Opposed by Dioscorus, antipope (530)
56.John II (533-35)
57.St. Agapetus I (535-36) Also called Agapitus I
58.St. Silverius (536-37)
59.Vigilius (537-55)
60.Pelagius I (556-61)
61.John III (561-74)
62.Benedict I (575-79)
63.Pelagius II (579-90)
64.St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
65.Sabinian (604-606)
66.Boniface III (607)
67.St. Boniface IV (608-15)
68.St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
69.Boniface V (619-25)
70.Honorius I (625-38)
71.Severinus (640)
72.John IV (640-42)
73.Theodore I (642-49)
74.St. Martin I (649-55)
75.St. Eugene I (655-57)
76.St. Vitalian (657-72)
77.Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
78.Donus (676-78)
79.St. Agatho (678-81)
80.St. Leo II (682-83)
81.St. Benedict II (684-85)
82.John V (685-86)
83.Conon (686-87)
84.St. Sergius I (687-701) Opposed by Theodore and Paschal, antipopes (687)
85.John VI (701-05)
86.John VII (705-07)
87.Sisinnius (708)
88.Constantine (708-15)
89.St. Gregory II (715-31)
90.St. Gregory III (731-41)
91.St. Zachary (741-52) Stephen II followed Zachary, but because he died before being consecrated, modern lists omit him
92.Stephen III (752-57)
93.St. Paul I (757-67)
94.Stephen IV (767-72) Opposed by Constantine II (767) and Philip (768), antipopes (767)
95.Adrian I (772-95)
96.St. Leo III (795-816)
97.Stephen V (816-17)
98.St. Paschal I (817-24)
99.Eugene II (824-27)
100.Valentine (827)
101.Gregory IV (827-44)
102.Sergius II (844-47) Opposed by John, antipope (855)
103.St. Leo IV (847-55)
104.Benedict III (855-58) Opposed by Anastasius, antipope (855)
105.St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)
106.Adrian II (867-72)
107.John VIII (872-82)
108.Marinus I (882-84)
109.St. Adrian III (884-85)
110.Stephen VI (885-91)
111.Formosus (891-96)
112.Boniface VI (896)
113.Stephen VII (896-97)
114.Romanus (897)
115.Theodore II (897)
116.John IX (898-900)
117.Benedict IV (900-03)
118.Leo V (903) Opposed by Christopher, antipope (903-904)
119.Sergius III (904-11)
120.Anastasius III (911-13)
121.Lando (913-14)
122.John X (914-28)
123.Leo VI (928)
124.Stephen VIII (929-31)
125.John XI (931-35)
126.Leo VII (936-39)
127.Stephen IX (939-42)
128.Marinus II (942-46)
129.Agapetus II (946-55)
130.John XII (955-63)
131.Leo VIII (963-64)
132.Benedict V (964)
133.John XIII (965-72)
134.Benedict VI (973-74)
135.Benedict VII (974-83) Benedict and John XIV were opposed by Boniface VII, antipope (974; 984-985)
136.John XIV (983-84)
137.John XV (985-96)
138.Gregory V (996-99) Opposed by John XVI, antipope (997-998)
139.Sylvester II (999-1003)
140.John XVII (1003)
141.John XVIII (1003-09)
142.Sergius IV (1009-12)
143.Benedict VIII (1012-24) Opposed by Gregory, antipope (1012)
144.John XIX (1024-32)
145.Benedict IX (1032-45) He appears on this list three separate times, because he was twice deposed and restored
146.Sylvester III (1045) Considered by some to be an antipope
147.Benedict IX (1045)
148.Gregory VI (1045-46)
149.Clement II (1046-47)
150.Benedict IX (1047-48)

 

[peace2u2]

continuation of the List of Popes:

151.Damasus II (1048)
152.St. Leo IX (1049-54)
153.Victor II (1055-57)
154.Stephen X (1057-58)
155.Nicholas II (1058-61) Opposed by Benedict X, antipope (1058)
156.Alexander II (1061-73) Opposed by Honorius II, antipope (1061-1072)
157.St. Gregory VII (1073-85) Gregory and the following three popes were opposed by Guibert (“Clement III”), antipope (1080-1100)
158.Blessed Victor III (1086-87)
159.Blessed Urban II (1088-99)
160.Paschal II (1099-1118) Opposed by Theodoric (1100), Aleric (1102) and Maginulf (“Sylvester IV”, 1105-1111), antipopes (1100)
161.Gelasius II (1118-19) Opposed by Burdin (“Gregory VIII”), antipope (1118)
162.Callistus II (1119-24)
163.Honorius II (1124-30) Opposed by Celestine II, antipope (1124)
164.Innocent II (1130-43) Opposed by Anacletus II (1130-1138) and Gregory Conti (“Victor IV”) (1138), antipopes (1138)
165.Celestine II (1143-44)
166.Lucius II (1144-45)
167.Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)
168.Anastasius IV (1153-54)
169.Adrian IV (1154-59)
170.Alexander III (1159-81) Opposed by Octavius (“Victor IV”) (1159-1164), Pascal III (1165-1168), Callistus III (1168-1177) and Innocent III (1178-1180), antipopes
171.Lucius III (1181-85)
172.Urban III (1185-87)
173.Gregory VIII (1187)
174.Clement III (1187-91)
175.Celestine III (1191-98)
176.Innocent III (1198-1216)
177.Honorius III (1216-27)
178.Gregory IX (1227-41)
179.Celestine IV (1241)
180.Innocent IV (1243-54)
181.Alexander IV (1254-61)
182.Urban IV (1261-64)
183.Clement IV (1265-68)
184.Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)
185.Blessed Innocent V (1276)
186.Adrian V (1276)
187.John XXI (1276-77)
188.Nicholas III (1277-80)
189.Martin IV (1281-85)
190.Honorius IV (1285-87)
191.Nicholas IV (1288-92)
192.St. Celestine V (1294)
193.Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
194.Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04)
195.Clement V (1305-14)
196.John XXII (1316-34) Opposed by Nicholas V, antipope (1328-1330)
197.Benedict XII (1334-42)
198.Clement VI (1342-52)
199.Innocent VI (1352-62)
200.Blessed Urban V (1362-70)
201.Gregory XI (1370-78)

 

[peace2u2]

List of Popes continued:

202.Urban VI (1378-89) Opposed by Robert of Geneva (“Clement VII”), antipope (1378-1394)
203.Boniface IX (1389-1404) Opposed by Robert of Geneva (“Clement VII”) (1378-1394), Pedro de Luna (“Benedict XIII”) (1394-1417) and Baldassare Cossa (“John XXIII”) (1400-1415), antipopes
204.Innocent VII (1404-06) Opposed by Pedro de Luna (“Benedict XIII”) (1394-1417) and Baldassare Cossa (“John XXIII”) (1400-1415), antipopes
205.Gregory XII (1406-15) Opposed by Pedro de Luna (“Benedict XIII”) (1394-1417), Baldassare Cossa (“John XXIII”) (1400-1415), and Pietro Philarghi (“Alexander V”) (1409-1410), antipopes
206.Martin V (1417-31)
207.Eugene IV (1431-47) Opposed by Amadeus of Savoy (“Felix V”), antipope (1439-1449)
208.Nicholas V (1447-55)
209.Callistus III (1455-58)
210.Pius II (1458-64)
211.Paul II (1464-71)
212.Sixtus IV (1471-84)
213.Innocent VIII (1484-92)
214.Alexander VI (1492-1503)
215.Pius III (1503)
216.Julius II (1503-13)
217.Leo X (1513-21)
218.Adrian VI (1522-23)
219.Clement VII (1523-34)
220.Paul III (1534-49)
221.Julius III (1550-55)
222.Marcellus II (1555)
223.Paul IV (1555-59)
224.Pius IV (1559-65)
225.St. Pius V (1566-72)
226.Gregory XIII (1572-85)
227.Sixtus V (1585-90)
228.Urban VII (1590)
229.Gregory XIV (1590-91)
230.Innocent IX (1591)
231.Clement VIII (1592-1605)
232.Leo XI (1605)
233.Paul V (1605-21)
234.Gregory XV (1621-23)
235.Urban VIII (1623-44)
236.Innocent X (1644-55)
237.Alexander VII (1655-67)
238.Clement IX (1667-69)
239.Clement X (1670-76)
240.Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89)
241.Alexander VIII (1689-91)
242.Innocent XII (1691-1700)
243.Clement XI (1700-21)
244.Innocent XIII (1721-24)
245.Benedict XIII (1724-30)
246.Clement XII (1730-40)
247.Benedict XIV (1740-58)
248.Clement XIII (1758-69)
249.Clement XIV (1769-74)
250.Pius VI (1775-99)
251.Pius VII (1800-23)
252.Leo XII (1823-29)
253.Pius VIII (1829-30)
254.Gregory XVI (1831-46)
255.Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
256.Leo XIII (1878-1903)
257.St. Pius X (1903-14)

258.Benedict XV (1914-22) Biographies of Benedict XV and his successors will be added at a later date
259.Pius XI (1922-39)
260.Pius XII (1939-58)
261.Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
262.Paul VI (1963-78)
263.John Paul I (1978)
264.Blessed John Paul II (1978-2005)
265.Benedict XVI (2005-2013)
266.Francis (2013—)

 

[1patterson]

Look back on the 2000 year history of the Catholic Church. The Church always responded to those who would try and divide the Church. The point is, those who divide or are divided, are going to have to answer to God for it. It appears Paul warned them twice. That’s all. Galatians 5:21

it would appear that what paul warned against might be different –

as today’s catholic church whti all it’s form was established in 312 under constantine

After Christianity became a legal religion within the Roman Empire under Emperor Constantine (AD 312), the leaders (bishops) of the Christian communities throughout the Mediterranean world could more easily meet to discuss important issues, debate current questions, reject heterodox opinions, and more clearly define their faith. These large meetings of bishops, called “Ecumenical Councils,” also produced some of the earliest and most concise statements of belief (called “Creeds”), which are still foundational for the Christian religion. The first eight councils are recognized by most Christians throughout the world today.

Council Name​

/ Location Dates Teachers and Teachings Rejected Orthodox Doctrines Decreed

Attend​

Influential Leaders

1 Nicea
325
Arians: Jesus was divine, but slightly inferior to the Father; Jesus was the first being created in time by God; slogan: “there was a time when he was not.” Jesus is divine, “of the same substance” (homo-ousios) as the Father, and was with the Father from the very first moment of creation. Sunday was fixed as the date for celebration of Easter. The “Nicene Creed” was written and adopted.
318
Emperor Constantine,
Athanasius of Alexandria
2 Constantinople I
381
Apollinarians: divided human & divine parts of Jesus; Arianism also still prominent; and followers of Macedonius said the Holy Spirit was a divine messenger, but not fully God. The teachings of Nicea were confirmed and expanded; the Holy Spirit is also fully divine; thus the Trinity has one divine “nature,” but three distinct “persons.”
~150
Emperor Theodosius,
Pope Damasus,
Cappadocian Fathers
3 Ephesus
431
Nestorians: Mary is the “Mother of Christ,” but should not be called the “Mother of God,” so that Jesus’ humanity is not neglected. Mary is traditionally and properly called the “Mother of God”; Jesus has both a divine and human nature, but united in his one person.

Monophysites: Jesus was both human and divine, but he had only "one nature"; his divinity totally replaced his human nature. 	The earthly Jesus was both fully human and fully divine; his two natures and two wills were perfectly united in his one person.

150+
I
The Rest of the 21 Ecumenical Councils:

catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/EcumenicalCouncils.htm

and of course the counsal of trent – established that – out side of the approved catholic church–

DECLARATIONS OF THE COUNCIL OF TRENT

Has the Roman Catholic Church changed its basic doctrinal position in this present ecumenical era?
The answer is no, it has not.

The Council of Trent was a Catholic council held from 1545-1563 in an attempt to destroy the progress of the Protestant Reformation.

This council denied every Reformation doctrine, including Scripture alone and grace alone. Trent hurled 125 anathemas (eternal damnations) against Bible-believing Christians.

These proclamations and anathemas were fleshed out in the murderous persecutions vented upon Bible-believing Christians by Rome, and the solemn fact is that the Council of Trent has never been annulled.

The Vatican II Council of the mid-1960s referred to Trent dozens of times, quoted Trent’s proclamations as authority, and reaffirmed Trent on every hand.

The New Catholic Catechism cites Trent no less than 99 times.

There is not the slightest hint that the proclamations of the Council of Trent have been abrogated by Rome.

At the opening of the Second Vatican Council, Pope John XXIII stated,

“I do accept entirely all that has been decided and declared at the Council of Trent.” Every cardinal, bishop and priest who participated in the Vatican II Council signed a document affirming Trent.

 

[brb3]

But does God reveal the truth personally or just to a magisterium, your magisterium? You previously negated personal revelation cause not all get it or hear improperly.

To individuals…some whom are the Magi. Clearly the Church must be guided by HS …thru its leadership of Pope & Bishops.
The Temple had it’s designated leadership in OT times …the Church hers in NT times. The OT leaders made mistakes … the NT Church leaders do also. Nevertheless, the Church will not fail, New blood is always entering the Church. The Kingdom of God has come upon the Earth, and Christ rules from on high …via flawed leaders, who don’t always make right calls. But, history is clear…the Catholic Church is the first, and best follows commands of Christ.

 

[brb3]

What does your relationship to Jesus depend on? If it all were taken away could you survive? Would you find the essence, the strength of that relationship?.. The Church thrived quite well without the papacy those first few centuries, and the Orthodox show it does thereafter also.

Ans: Is two fold. Christ adopts individuals…who need the Church to persevere.

Lets say you are God’s adoption. Can you survive for very long apart from his Church & Sacraments ? Can you understand all things …apart from his flock’s help ?

Paul said you couldn’t, Christ said the same. Why do you think Christ started his Church ?

Christ said he wanted One Flock. What Church would that be ?

 

[steve_b]

(Edited out quote of deleted post and response)
p:

Why should Rome tell Eastern churches when to abandon their apostolic tradition of an Easter date celebration? Was that proper control back in the early church, a hint of things to come? Silly schisms?

oh c’mon. Standardizing the dates of important feast days is a good thing. Besides, the group you’re talking about the Quartodecimians, were a tiny group that wasn’t conforming to the rest of the Church

check this out

Council of Constantinople I

“Those who embrace orthodoxy and join the number of those who are being saved from the heretics, we receive in the following regular and customary manner: Arians, Macedonians, Sabbatians, Novatians, those who call themselves Cathars and Aristeri, Quartodecimians or Tetradites, Apollinarians— **these we receive when they hand in statements and anathematize every heresy which is not of the same mind as the holy, catholic, and apostolic Church of God” (Canon 7). **

 

[peace2u2]

That is categorically false. There is no salvation outside the Church — Catholic Doctrine.

The Church is necessary for salvation since we have no salvation without Christ and we do not know Christ without the Church.

“Outside the Church there is no salvation” does not imply that “Protestants” and others are not saved, but taking the journey thru the Catholic Church is the best road that I know to take to get there. Unfortunately, the OP did not have that same experience in the Church that Jesus established and he left (invincible ignorance?). I think most of us that are responding to this thread just want to show the OP that the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus established and the doors of the Catholic Church are always open when or if you are ever ready to re-enter.

 

[Church_Militant]

That is categorically false. There is no salvation outside the Church — Catholic Doctrine.

The Church is necessary for salvation since we have no salvation without Christ and we do not know Christ without the Church.

“Outside the Church there is no salvation” does not imply that “Protestants” and others are not saved, but taking the journey thru the Catholic Church is the best road that I know to take to get there. Unfortunately, the OP did not have that same experience in the Church that Jesus established and he left (invincible ignorance?). I think most of us that are responding to this thread just want to show the OP that the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus established and the doors of the Catholic Church are always open when or if you are ever ready to re-enter.

Exactly.

There’s some very good information on this up in the Ask an Apologist forum.

• Extra ecclesiam nulla salus
• ** Salvation Outside of the Church**
• ** What is invincible ignorance?**
• ** How can the Church accept salvation for Protestants?**
• Should Catholics try to evangelize Protestants?

 

[pocohombre]

Check The Facts and Stats on 33,000 Denominations, and analysis of the World Christian Encyclopedia, a protestant publication by Barrett, Kurian, Johnson (Oxford Univ Press, 2nd edition, 2001). This Encyclopedia lists 33,000 total Christian denominations worldwide, including among them the Catholic Church.

Michael J. McClymond (“Making sense of the census, or, what 1.999.563.838 Christians might mean for the study of religion”, Journal of the American Academy of Religion 70 (December): 875-890, 2002) notes that while the articles in the World Christian Encyclopedia are generally neutral, some passages have an anti-catholic and pro-Protestant orientation.

By 2007 the 33,000 number grew to 39,000, and it’s projected to reach 55,000 by the year 2025.

By same measure there are 242 Catholic denominations and 781 Orthodox the article says.

 

[KingJohn]

If someone doesn’t become Catholic do they burn in hell?

 

[pocohombre]

(Edited out quote of deleted post and response)

oh c’mon. Standardizing the dates of important feast days is a good thing. Besides, the group you’re talking about the Quartodecimians, were a tiny group that wasn’t conforming to the rest of the Church

check this out

Council of Constantinople I

“Those who embrace orthodoxy and join the number of those who are being saved from the heretics, we receive in the following regular and customary manner: Arians, Macedonians, Sabbatians, Novatians, those who call themselves Cathars and Aristeri, Quartodecimians or Tetradites, Apollinarians— **these we receive when **they hand in statements and anathematize every heresy which is not of the same mind as the holy, catholic, and apostolic Church of God” (Canon 7).

Thank you. Not sure standardizing was necessary. It is not like there were many dates for Easter celebration save two. And one was from more antiquity, closer to apostles. I thought excommunication was to be invoked if the newer western date was not followed. Not sure about other issues or small groups. Have to read more but thought it was a minor issue turned "political’, not worth a schism.

 

[pocohombre]

you need to do some history pocohombre. Their has been a pope since Peter. Granted there was a 2 or 3 yr span were the Cardinals could not get someone elected, that is were Conclave comes from now. but the Church has always had 1 pastor. Just like God said it, I want 1 pastor leading all my flock. I dont remember him stating I want 45,000 pastors leading my flock

Thank you I know but the actual “office” in practice evolved. The structure of today was certainly not in place till some say 5th century or more,but yes CC says there were popes from day one, understand.

 

[peace2u2]

If someone doesn’t become Catholic do they burn in hell?

Only God knows our hearts. We shouldn’t presume we know who is going to hell or not. That is why we pray for the deceased regardless of how holy they are or not.