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Robert_Sock
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The Jews are an autonomous group of people, perhaps more so than any other religion, except for the Amish.
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steve_b
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That’s not how it works.
Jesus started one Church, the Catholic Church. Division from which, is condemned in scripture. Protestants regardless of stripe, are seperated brothers and sisters from us, ergo seperated from His Church.
It’s absolutely clear, Jesus doesn’t allow seperation and division, either ***inside ***His Church or away from His Church. John 17:20-23 And we know Protestantism by definition, got it’s start seperating from Our Lord’s Church the Catholic Church. We know who started each Protestant sect, and we know when they started each sect.
As Cardinal Henry Newman, a former Protestant Anglican stated before his conversion to the Catholic Church, “to be deep in history is to cease being Protestant”
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steve_b
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I think brb’s point is, in the beginning, the Church was 100% Jewish. It wasn’t till Acts 10 that Cornelius and family (Gentiles) were admitted into the Church (baptised).
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Darryl_B
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I cannot agree with the opinion that Jesus Christ does not care which “church” you belong to just as long as you believe in Him. Belief in Jesus Christ is not just belief in his personal interest in individuals. That makes everything just about the relationship between that one individual and their Lord and King. That seriously fails to recognize the Communion of Saints.
Jesus Christ established one Kingdom, the Kingdom of God with one true Church, the Catholic Church, the only one established by Jesus Christ himself, Peter being chosen even before he was called to be a disciple.
The work of Jesus Christ is to undo everything that man has failed on. One thing where man failed was at the Tower of Babel. To limit the strength of man in his self-reliance the kingdom was divided by God. In opposition to this Jesus Christ made one unified Kingdom one unified Church, the Catholic church.
To not care really about divisions requires an unbelief in the work of Jesus Christ. It also seriously reduces the strength of the Church. So it might not matter to a protestant, but it does matter to God. I used to reconcile the divisions by pretending that it didn’t matter to God, as most protestants are required to do, but I think it is more to avoid returning home rather than anything else.
Jesus Christ established one Kingdom, the Kingdom of God with one true Church, the Catholic Church, the only one established by Jesus Christ himself, Peter being chosen even before he was called to be a disciple.
The work of Jesus Christ is to undo everything that man has failed on. One thing where man failed was at the Tower of Babel. To limit the strength of man in his self-reliance the kingdom was divided by God. In opposition to this Jesus Christ made one unified Kingdom one unified Church, the Catholic church.
To not care really about divisions requires an unbelief in the work of Jesus Christ. It also seriously reduces the strength of the Church. So it might not matter to a protestant, but it does matter to God. I used to reconcile the divisions by pretending that it didn’t matter to God, as most protestants are required to do, but I think it is more to avoid returning home rather than anything else.
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dshix
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I have not had time to read the thread, so I’m sure one of the many learned people on the forum has already given the correct answer, but I’ll just make a quick answer nonetheless.
God wants everyone to come to Him in Heaven, and has placed the Church on earth for the purpose of leading all peoples to Him. That doesn’t necessarily mean that He wants all people to be Catholic, though I’m sure that would be a wonderful thing indeed.
Catholicism is not an end in itself; it is a means to an end. That end is eternal communion with God in Heaven, and Catholicism happens to be THE best road here on earth to that Goal, because it was set here by Christ Himself.
I am by no means condoning relativism or the idea that it doesn’t matter what religion you follow. It matters immensely. However, every person is obligated to follow the best truth they can find, and if they never discover Catholicism, that doesn’t mean they are excluded from heaven.
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StillCatholic
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BRAVO! I love this. I can’t think of any other way to put it.
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StillCatholic
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What God wants is for us to love one another as He loves us. He wants us to be unified. That said, He waits, He watches, His Holy Spirit broods over the face of the earth. Someday, we will all be one in Him. I myself am overjoyed to be in the Catholic Church and being made ready to meet Him when He calls. I do believe in the origins of the Catholic church tracing back to Jesus initiating everything with His apostles starting with Peter.
Small “c” catholic I learn comes from a greek word which I will now butcher-katholikos-it means universal, it more accurately means, all included. The New Testament tells us that Christ broke down the barriers between Jews and Greeks, barbarians, etc. There is now nothing preventing anyone from coming to Him through Christ.
Small “c” catholic I learn comes from a greek word which I will now butcher-katholikos-it means universal, it more accurately means, all included. The New Testament tells us that Christ broke down the barriers between Jews and Greeks, barbarians, etc. There is now nothing preventing anyone from coming to Him through Christ.
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R_C
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The Orthodox have a valid apostolic succession, are called Church, and are almost in full communion (words from Catechism). All others are ecclesiastic communities because they lack apostolic succession.
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pocohombre
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Agree. That was from our view point, but the thread question is God’s viewpoint.
True , but much of what they believe had earlier origins. You had Ratranmus in 9th century on RP and Tyndale (maybe wycliffe) in 13 th century, and some form of antibaptists before them all . One can also point to a time in history when practices, and even doctrine were proclaimed by the CC . That is, not so easy to say the apostles did everything we do today. As an example, there is no evidence that the apostles held “confession”, and that the confessional is from around the 12Th (? ) century ,though confessing earlier.
C. S. Lewis said, “Those ignorant of history are slaves to the recent past”. I think his context was an unflattering papal history.
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pocohombre
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Welcome. Amen to much of what you said.
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pocohombre
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pocohombre
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Yes, St. Paul says to discern the Body of Christ in Corinthians.
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pocohombre
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Haven’t you learned anything about caveman’s feelings from the Geico commercials?
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AveChriste11
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This question has always troubled me, obviously there are areas I struggle with… in trying to understand why the Catholic Church teaches what she does. Sometimes I know what she teaches, but it just doesn’t make sense or I can’t seem to bring myself to agree with it. I could say similar things about the Orthodox churches, which I also once had a great fascination with and adoration of as some might have known based off of my previous posts in other threads.
On some issues the Catholic Church makes sense. For there’s been plenty of times I’ve given my heart and soul to Jesus in prayer, and then I would fall away and “backslide”. I would deny him and his Truth, and I might say horrible things about other Christians. So the whole thing of “Are you saved?” has never made any sense to me. But I do know that for every time I’ve turned away from God, something keeps pulling me back – almost as if he were the Hound of Heaven that eternally searches and calls out for our souls.
Most of my family were Baptists, and I have never for one second believed that Christ would ever reject them from his presence. They lived very holy and good lives, in accordance with what they understood the Bible to teach. So I guess even though it may be ideal for some to be “Catholic”, I also understand that the Catholic Church is not teaching that those who are Christians of other communions will not make it into Heaven. That would be a misunderstanding of “No Salvation Outside the Church”.
I’ve been exposed to the idea that it doesn’t matter what church you belong to, what God wants of us is our hearts and our willingness to Love him with all of our heart, and soul and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Everything else is secondary, because this is the essential element of building a relationship with Christ. It’s not enough just to have intellectual assent, but a trusting faith that grows and changes you from the inside out.
Please feel free to correct me on anything, and I find this to be a very interesting thread.
On some issues the Catholic Church makes sense. For there’s been plenty of times I’ve given my heart and soul to Jesus in prayer, and then I would fall away and “backslide”. I would deny him and his Truth, and I might say horrible things about other Christians. So the whole thing of “Are you saved?” has never made any sense to me. But I do know that for every time I’ve turned away from God, something keeps pulling me back – almost as if he were the Hound of Heaven that eternally searches and calls out for our souls.
Most of my family were Baptists, and I have never for one second believed that Christ would ever reject them from his presence. They lived very holy and good lives, in accordance with what they understood the Bible to teach. So I guess even though it may be ideal for some to be “Catholic”, I also understand that the Catholic Church is not teaching that those who are Christians of other communions will not make it into Heaven. That would be a misunderstanding of “No Salvation Outside the Church”.
I’ve been exposed to the idea that it doesn’t matter what church you belong to, what God wants of us is our hearts and our willingness to Love him with all of our heart, and soul and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Everything else is secondary, because this is the essential element of building a relationship with Christ. It’s not enough just to have intellectual assent, but a trusting faith that grows and changes you from the inside out.
Please feel free to correct me on anything, and I find this to be a very interesting thread.
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pocohombre
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Amen and welcome, good post and no backsliding allowed. May you come to know for sure why ,especially Baptists, rightly preach"being saved".
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pocohombre
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Welcome. No, God doesn’t like divisions and don’t recall it being a prerequisite to think otherwise to be Protestant. If one really tries, he can see a universal church, a catholic church. It depends on how free one is from parochialism.
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Darryl_B
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Sorry pocohombre I tried really hard to see “the church” the way that you speak of and unfortunately it is not the same construct as the Apostles instigated.
While not a prerequisite of protestant it is a reality of the protestant so on the one hand profess God doesn’t like divisions and on the other hand divide. I on the other hand admit that the protestant experiment has failed miserably.
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truthquester
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My humble opinion is that you don’t have to belong to a religion to belong to God.
And the best religion is the religion that brings you closest to God.
And the best religion is the religion that brings you closest to God.
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pocohombre
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How About the division that exists within our churches? So while the framework is uniform in CC, within that you find a wide variety of personal belief’s.
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asd72
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I don’t think that is right. Many including me as a evanglical type Christian thought it didn’t matter, that denominations didn’t matter. The only reason I now want everyone to be Catholic, is that I believe now that the Catholic Church IS the original Church and that Jesus prayed that it would be undivided. I definately don’t think all Orthodox Christians need to convert though, I think the Catholic and Orthodox need to be reunited as a group.
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