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Aaron_Creagh
Guest
Faith without works is dead.
But remember…works are not the thing that saves us in the first place.
But remember…works are not the thing that saves us in the first place.
S
steve_b
Guest
What part of the following is not God’s viewpoint?
Jn 17: 11 And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one
Jn 17: 18 As you have sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
Jn 17: 20 "I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
There is zero division between Father and Son. Therefore if we are to follow Jesus wishes about being ONE, there is to be ZERO room for division either in the Church or from the Church.
That’s why Paul, speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit taught the following. He even had to warn them over and over again, and notice the consequences if they remained hard headed and didn’t follow his instruction
the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy,**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gal 5&version=RSVCE#fen-RSVCE-33342b”)] drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21 ]
(dissension / factions / division / sedition whichever translation one uses) in the Greek is
διχοστασίαdichostasia
As Paul says, one will not go to heaven if they die divide from the Church.
All of Protestantism regardless of stripe, is rooted in division from the Catholic Church and is divided from the Catholic Church today. Therefore, once a Protestant *knows *they are seperated from the Catholic Church and the consequences for remaining seperated, and refuses to enter the Catholic Church, or once in the Catholic Church doesn’t remain in the Catholic Church, there is no salvation for them .
Not my warning, not my words, but Paul’s speaking under the inspiration of the HS. [Gal 5:21]
p:
One can’t excuse division from the Catholic Church. Period. Jesus gave no wiggle room for division [Jn 17: 11-21] nor did Paul [Gal 5:19-21] . the consequences for one dividing and remaining divided from the Church is catastrophic for their soul.
p:
Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive or retain a person’s sins, all of them (John 20:21–23). How do they do that, unless the person confesses their sins to them? They afterall aren’t mind readers. And why give them this power unless He wanted them to use it, and wanted us to avail ourselves of this sacrament? That’s why scripture teaches us to confess our sins to a priest James 5:14-16 A priest has been given the power through his ordination to forgive or retain all sins.
btw, various bible translations use “elder” instead of priest. The Greek word for elder in that passage is πρεσβύτερος presbyteros
Definition:
among Christians, the NT uses the term bishop, priests, elders, and presbyters interchangeably.
In addition,
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [1 Jn 1:9] Protestants say see, I don’t need a priest.
however John also makes the following distinction between sins
If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. [1 Jn 5:16-17]
All of this ties into
- Jesus giving His apostles the power to forgive and retain sin (all of them)
- James teaching that one is to confess their sins to a priest
- John is saying one can confess for forgiveness of sins, however makes a distinction between mortal and non mortal sins for remedy…
Protestant ministers can’t forgive another person’s sins. How do Protestants then get rid of mortal sin?
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Aaron_Creagh
Guest
There was an order for us all to be baptized.
That is true.
This is my question though.
The thief who asked Jesus to remember him once Jesus got to his kingdom,
which baptism did that their receive if we are all to be baptized before reaching the kingdom?
I don’t think any dunking or sprinkling was going on at that specific time.
Jesus is The Living Water.
(be baptized with the holy ghost or spirit)
That is true.
This is my question though.
The thief who asked Jesus to remember him once Jesus got to his kingdom,
which baptism did that their receive if we are all to be baptized before reaching the kingdom?
I don’t think any dunking or sprinkling was going on at that specific time.
Jesus is The Living Water.
(be baptized with the holy ghost or spirit)
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Aaron_Creagh
Guest
Protestants pray to God in the name of Jesus.
And they also pray for one another.
I think the overall idea about sin is that…sin is sin.
Pentecostals, do not put sin into different categories, for the bible states that the wages of sin is death.
So, we take this thing seriously, believe it or not.
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R_C
Guest
I don’t do well with my own thinking, I simply refer to Scripture and Tradition as my guides. As for your answer, it depends on whether or not you think hell isn’t so bad.
Because to die in spirit is to be truly dead.
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StillCatholic
Guest
The problem with that, is in the journey of conversion, which is a life long walk. If you are in a religion that brings you close to God, do you still find yourself not obeying the church authority?
One of the reasons for my returning to the Catholic church is that I could not find myself able to obey the authority of the church I was formerly in. For one thing, there was no true sense of authority to begin with. We were taught and encouraged to read and study the scriptures and be in prayer with the Holy Spirit for Guidance. For many years that seemed to work for me until one day I found myself wondering if I was following the Lord for real, or was I following my own image of the Lord. Our hearts are desperately wicked and deceptive above all, who can know it? (Somewhere in Jeremiah) Everyone seemed to have his or her own understanding of scripture.
So, now I have what I need and what I’ve been looking for…sound doctrine and unified teaching…in the Catholic church.
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R_C
Guest
Then what? Shall we presume that the Apostles and the Church Fathers were gravely mistaken in proclaiming the absolute necessity of baptism by water (whether by submersion, immersion, or infusion (“sprinkling”)?
The story of the good thief was very peculiar. He did everything he could do at once: repentance, acceptance of the cross, admonition of sinners, profession of faith, supplication of love, trust in God’s mercy and forgiveness. God does not ask for what is impossible, and it is also part of tradition (besides being common sense) that Deus non alligatur Sacramentis, meaning God is not tied by His own Sacraments. The Sacraments that Christ defined bind us as the ordinary means for salvation, but they don’t bind Him who in fact saves many who are under invincible ignorance, either of Christ or of His Church.
Pentecostalism, just to clarify things, is a novel ecclesiastic community born in the XX Century, springing out of evangelical Protestantism. As you can imagine, the doctrine is obviously subject to a major departure from orthodox Christianity, and this is a fact, no matter how serious their adherents may be or how much they may love God.
That overall idea about sin is not as you state it, and that the Pentecostals don’t put it into different categories is a contradiction of Scripture itself. Just read the first letter of the apostle John, the beloved disciple:
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pocohombre
Guest
Of course it matters but the reason I said what you are is what you want others to be is because anyone fervent,serious about their faith is so because they think it is “right”. And yet that is not enough for scripture warns ,“There is a way that seems right to a man,yet the way is the way of death”. So buyer beware.
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CompSciGuy
Guest
Yes.
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pocohombre
Guest
There is milk and there is meat. Milk is predigested food, food that someone has done the work for you so to speak.I don’t do well with my own thinking, I simply refer to Scripture and Tradition as my guides. As for your answer, it depends on whether or not you think hell isn’t so bad.
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Brendan_64
Guest
There are 3 types of baptism, by water, by desire and by blood (martyrdom).
The thief on the cross received baptism of desire.
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R_C
Guest
But milk is that which sustains the life of infants. When we grow up, we start eating meat. Such is the way of the Cross: nobody does that work for us, each of us has to carry his own in order to follow Christ.
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Aaron_Creagh
Guest
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Aaron_Creagh
Guest
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pocohombre
Guest
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Aaron_Creagh
Guest
At the Rapture…the dead in Christ will be the first ones to rise.
That’s what I thought you were talking about, when you said “dead in spirit.”
That’s what I thought you were talking about, when you said “dead in spirit.”
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R_C
Guest
Yes!!!
http://f.internetara.com/onbellek/1...U_2qLsv250t27110spdlz_NK_jj_NK_671_SL_kqh.jpg
Just a joke! :hug1:
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JamesCaruso
Guest
Did anyone mention the Great Commission?
And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 19Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. Matt 28
Yes, God wants all to be Catholic.
And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 19Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. Matt 28
Yes, God wants all to be Catholic.
S
steve_b
Guest
Good
so do I.for clarification, I can forgive you of what you’ve done to me, I can’t forgive you of your sins to others, nor can your Protestant pastor.
Re: the topic, Does God want everyone to be Catholic?
Short answer is yes. It’s the Church Jesus established.
Jesus opposes division of any kind [Jn 17:11] & [Jn 17: 20-21]
The Holy Spirit through Paul, condemns division from the Church, the only one Jesus established, the Catholic Church. If one dies in that sin they go to hell. Here’s one list of mortal sins from scripture, one being division, [Gal 5:20-21]
Therefore, once a Protestant knows they were ultimately divided from (the Catholic Church) and refuses to return to the Catholic Church, then they are no longer innocent of any ignorance they might have had regarding the sin of division. They are now guilty of division from the Church. Remember what Paul said [Gal 5:21]. One who dies in division from the Church won’t go to heaven. By definition that’s a mortal sin
Catholic Church from the beginning
· Acts 9:31 So the church throughout all κατά kata…ὅλος holos] Judea and Galilee and Sama’ria…" iow the Church is the Kataholos Church = Catholic Church The English word catholic is a transliteration of the Greek katholikos which is a compound word from kata, which means according to, and holos, which means whole. http://www.catholic.com/tracts/what-catholic-means
· St IgnatiusBp of Antioch, ~69 a.d. - ~107 a.d., ordained by apostles, disciple of St John the apostle, called the Church the Catholic Church Epistle to the Smyrnæansof which schismatics won’t be going to heaven Epistle to the Philadelphians
· St Polycarp, Bp Smyrna, disciple of St John called the Church the “Catholic Church” The Martyrdom of Polycarp
· Irenaeus ~180 a.d. wrote “Against Heresies” called the Church the “Catholic Church” Adversus haereses Bk 1 Ch 10 v 3], and also Irenaeus who was taught by Polycarp, teaches all must agree with Rome [Bk 3, Ch 3, v 2-3]Chapter 3
· Cyprian~250 a.d. Epistle 54
· The Nicene Creed, 325 a.d., it’s a matter of faith to believe in the “One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church”
· etc etc
one can’t be divided from this Church
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To be accurate
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. [1 Jn 5:16-17]
iow, there is a distinction in sin
A:
If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. [1 Jn 5:16-17]
Yes sin leads to death, and everybody dies, but only mortal sin on one’s soul at death leads to hell. Reflect on [Gal 5: 19-21].
Not all sin is mortal. The HS inspired John to teach that. [1 Jn 5:17]
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