Does Hell Exist? Pope Francis Says No (Warning: This title is misleading)

[Luke6_37]

Absolutely un-Catholic.

Souls are immortal. End of story.

I disagree.

 

[kyrie03]

The Vatican corrected the “Hell does not exist” part, but has been silent about the “souls disappear” part.

Can you site source where the Vatican corrected: “Hell does not exist part”?

As to “souls disappear part” you claim the Church and the Fathers are silent! Be honest, read the sources I have cited from both the Fathers and the Church. I’ll cite you another Father:

St Cyprian of Carthage (252) writes in To Demetrian: “An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishments of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there by any way in which the torments can ever have respite or end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in infinite agonies. The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment.” (The Faith of Our Early Fathers by Jurgens, volume 1)

Re-read posts 271 and 273.

How do you explain away, “If anyone says or holds that the punishments of devils and wicked men is temporary and will eventually cease, let him be anathema.” Canons of the Provincial Council of Constantinople in 548?

 

[KMG]

Souls are immortal. Luke’s views on this thread are heretical.

 

[kyrie03]

I quoted this text to demonstrate that in 1910, many believed that ECT was not a de fide dogma of the church, but only an opinion that does not contradict dogma. The author of the article disagrees, but that’s just his opinion, he is not infallible! He further admits that annihilation is not intrinsically impossible for God (something YOU appear to deny) but in his opinion, there are reasons against it (Reasons that are neither good or true in my opinion).

Uh, no…that’s a dishonest reading of the complete section on Eternity of Hell. It is clear from reading the whole section in context that the part you are fixated upon is a series of arguments (by those applying reason alone) and counterarguments (that the Church has taught through the ages).

On page 209, only 2 paragraphs above text you cited, is stated: “The Church professes her faith in the eternity of the pains of hell in clear terms in the Athanasian Creed (Denz., nn. 40), in authentic doctrinal decisions (Denz., nn. 211,410, 429, 807, 835, 915), and in countless passages of her liturgy; she never prays for the damned. Hence, beyond the possibility of doubt, the Church expressly teaches the eternity of the pains of hell as a truth of faith which no one can deny or call into question without manifest heresy.”

“Beyond the possibility of doubt, that the Church expressly teaches the eternity of the pains of hell as a truth of faith which no one can deny or call into question without manifest heresy!” Disagree all you like, but realize it’s heresy.

 

[pnewton]

Disagree all you like, but realize it’s heresy.

I think you have made a good case that the annihilation of the soul is contrary to Church doctrine. I hesitate to call it ironclad, or contrary to dogma, but it is clearly contrary to all the Church teaches. Yet, as Luke has not denied the existence to eternal punishment in Hell, only the existence of the individual sinner in Hell, I do not think “heresy” should be used, especially at the lay level.

I am of the opinion though that the argument that annihilation is heretical is still stronger than the argument that Catholic teaching allows for annihilation of the soul.