Does Humanae Vitae spiritually kill most Catholic’s souls?

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An atheist once told me that people who practice birth control are selfish.

If people cannot accept the Catholic position on birth control, they could at least accept an atheist’s position.
 
I do not know much about the pill. I do not know if it causes abortions, does not allow the embreo to attach, does not signal the body that conception has occured, or simply does not allow an egg to develope and flow through the falopian tube.

I always specify condoms, tube tying or vasectomies, which do not cause abortions, when discussing birth control. This keeps the discussion down to one issue. Obviously any form of birth control which has any possibility of abortion is imoral simply on the stand that abortion is murder. When we talk about non-abortion birth control we are focusing in on birth control alone.
 
“I always specify condoms, tube tying or vasectomies, which do not cause abortions, when discussing birth control. This keeps the discussion down to one issue. Obviously any form of birth control which has any possibility of abortion is imoral simply on the stand that abortion is murder. When we talk about non-abortion birth control we are focusing in on birth control alone.”

We need to see people as a God given resource not as a disposable inconvience .

Tube tying in effect aborts all the children a woman was born with, as she is born with all her children’s eggs and then can never carry them to birth. The only one way to have a perfect clear conscience is to ask God to bring every egg and sperm alive by birth, that way you never twart life but give your life to God.

Most people have believed Over Population and so justify not being fruitful. Let’s discuss how we bought this LIE.

When we teach people that God’s resources are infinite we will never lose a child to OVER POP ULATION again.

John
 
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jbuttrey:
Tube tying in effect aborts all the children a woman was born with, as she is born with all her children’s eggs and then can never carry them to birth. The only one way to have a perfect clear conscience is to ask God to bring every egg and sperm alive by birth, that way you never twart life but give your life to God.

John
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Hello John,

So do you believe that Church taught natural family planning, which thwarts eggs and sperm from becoming a live birth, is the Church condoning abortion?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
I think that Humanae Vitae seperated the sheep from the goats in the Church, and rather than killing peoples souls, it confirmed the brethern in faith!
 
I remember during one of the anniversaries of Humanae Vitae a Catholic publication said that the document had turned into a prophesy as far as what birth control would do to relationships and society. Does anyone have any information on this…I’ve forgotten. Was it along the lines of children will be regarded as unwanted or women would be used for men’s lustful needs?
 
jbuttrey said:
“I always specify condoms, tube tying or vasectomies, which do not cause abortions, when discussing birth control. This keeps the discussion down to one issue. Obviously any form of birth control which has any possibility of abortion is imoral simply on the stand that abortion is murder. When we talk about non-abortion birth control we are focusing in on birth control alone.”

We need to see people as a God given resource not as a disposable inconvience .

Tube tying in effect aborts all the children a woman was born with, as she is born with all her children’s eggs and then can never carry them to birth. The only one way to have a perfect clear conscience is to ask God to bring every egg and sperm alive by birth, that way you never twart life but give your life to God.

Most people have believed Over Population and so justify not being fruitful. Let’s discuss how we bought this LIE.

When we teach people that God’s resources are infinite we will never lose a child to OVER POP ULATION again.

John
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so by not having AS MANY children as a couple could possibly have ie 10-15, we are thwarting Gods plan. (EVERY sperm? - there are millions of them, millions die in our bodies every day) We are not just baby making machines, there are obviouse reasons why a couple may not be able to have 12 children, ie. I literally am not earning enough cash to cloth, feed and educate them.
 
I would say that there needs to be another catagory, or the terminology needs to be different. There are many women for whom the pill is taken so that they might have a better chance to become pregnent later. Some Catholics want to label all women who take the pill as “loose” or say they are living outside the grace of God. what about women whose only chance to concieve is to undergo hormone treatments?
 
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puzzleannie:
If I bought a new house out in the country with well and septic, it would be my responsibility to make sure the well water was safe for my family to drink, and also the responsibility of the seller to inform me if there was any problem with the water. If the water is in fact polluted by bacteria or chemicals from some source, the seller may know about it and cover it up, or may know about it and warn me not to drink. I may ignore the warning, or I may heed the warning and fix the problem, or I may never get the message because nobody knows the well is polluted, or they are hiding the problem.

Either way, if me and my family drink the water we will be injured, perhaps fatally if the pollution is bad enough to cause disease. If the EPA comes out and determines the water is polluted, I can continue drinking the water, or find a new source for drinking water. I may believe the EPA has no authority, but whether I believe their judgement, or whether or not I have knowledge of the polluted water, I will be injured if I drink it.

If I know about the problem and drink the water and give it to my children, I am guilty of deliberately harming them and myself. If I don’t know about the problem, and drink the water and give it to my children, I have no guilt, but we still suffer damage.
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What a good analogy, PuzzleAnnie. But then again, your posts always seem to be filled with wisdom.🙂
 
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cynic:
so by not having AS MANY children as a couple could possibly have ie 10-15, we are thwarting Gods plan. (EVERY sperm? - there are millions of them, millions die in our bodies every day) We are not just baby making machines, there are obviouse reasons why a couple may not be able to have 12 children, ie. I literally am not earning enough cash to cloth, feed and educate them.
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Catholics are allowed to practice NFP, which from what I understand does help to space and limit the number of children.
 
To say that Humanae Vitae will kill many Catholics is nonsense. I would guess that the many Catholics who continue to use birth control merely do not understand the teaching hence they do not have full knowledge of the sin. It’s quite simple and I am boggled by how many people are so determined to use birth control. So many believe they have to. Whats wrong with natural family planning? It works for my family and we dont have twelve children. I just dont get it. Someone tell me why they think they have to use a condom.
 
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JimO:
I’d like to see statistics comparing the attitudes of people who practiced sexual purity until marriage with those who did not on the issue of artificial birth control. I’d bet my savings that a strong correlation exists between obedience to the Church’s teaching on sexual purity and the Church’s teaching on birth control.

This trend would likely be seen in the Protestant faiths as well. I know Protestants who just don’t feel right about birth control. These same people have lived chaste lives before marriage.

Just my 2 cents.
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I can answer this. I have seen the statistics a few times…

The current divorce rate for the general population is at 50%. The divorce rate for Catholics is the same as the general population.

Those couples who have obstained from sex until marriage have a divorce rate of 2%. This comes with a plus or minus 3% possibity of error. Therefore divorce is basically non-existant for those couples who obstain from sex before marriage.

Those couples who had sex before marriage but then later obstained from sex for at least 2 years before they actually married have a divorce rate of 5%. This shows me that God does give us second chances.

I try to convey these figures to all the teenagers I can reach. Entering marriage is a lifetime commitment & the stats above show obstaining from sex before marriage leads to a successful marriage.
 
OK I am seeing a lot of issues which need to be addressed on this thread. I therefore am going to post a few things…

Sin of Onan: Genesis 38 (8-10)

8

3 Then Judah said to Onan, “Unite with your brother’s widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thus preserve your brother’s line.”

9

Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so whenever he had relations with his brother’s widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother.

10

What he did greatly offended the LORD, and the LORD took his life too.

usccb.org/nab/bible/genesis/genesis38.htm
The Bible vs. Contraception Brochure

omsoul.com/item395.html
Contraception - Why Not? (by Janet Smith)

catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0002.html
 
**Some Forms of Birth Control Can Abort! **

all.org/ (click on letter “C”, then click on “Contraceptives”).

CONTRACEPTION: It facilitates the kind of relationships and even the kind of attitudes and moral character that are likely to lead to abortion. The contraceptive mentality treats sexual intercourse as though it had little natural connection with babies; it thinks of babies as an “accident” of intercourse, as an unwelcome intrusion into a sexual relationship, as a burden. [Janet Smith, Ph.D.]

THE ABORTION CONNECTION: Birth control is a pro-life concern—for a variety of reasons.

THE PILL: Backers say the pill “prevents” abortion. But read the medical literature carefully—that isn’t true.

EMERGENCY CONTRACEPTION: The morning after pill, contrary to what you may have heard, does cause abortions.

DEPO-PROVERA: This injectible birth control chemical has side effects—and it can cause abortion.

NORPLANT: This birth control implant is the target of class-action lawsuits because of its reported side effects.

RU-486: Don’t believe those who say this is “birth control.” It’s a high-risk chemical form of abortion.

ANTI-FERTILITY VACCINES: Follow the logic: If a vaccine prevents a disease, fertility (a normal function), therefore, is a disease.

THE IUD: These devices irritate the uterine lining—leading to abortion.

SPERMICIDES: These chemicals are advertised as “safe.” False advertising?

SEASONALE: Promoters tout “only four periods a year.” But it can cause abortion.

THE CONDOM: Safe-sex promoters claim it is the best way to avoid pregnancy and disease. Not exactly.
 
Here is how I explain Birth Control in the Secular Sense…

Catholic teaching states abortion is a grave sin since it is the destruction of human life. You are right there are many Catholics who are wrongly practicing contraception. Catholics who pick and choose the elements of the church which they feel they want are called “Cafeteria Catholics”. These are not “Practicing Catholics”. Catholic teaching states Contraception is wrong but Natural Family Planning (NFP) is OK since God is still in control of the decision making process.

I look at human sexuality as having 2 variables. There is “gratification” & “openess to new life”. With contraception you want the “gratification” without being “open to new life”. I think if God wanted us to have one of these variables without the other, God would have created another action. God’s Natural Law has both “gratification” & “openess to new life” as ONE ACTION. Who are we to tell the Creator this was a mistake?

Those who feel contraception is morally OK must defend other sexual acts which takes the “gratification” but leaves the “openess to new life” behind like homosexuality (man & man), pedifilia (man & boy) & beastiality (man & animal) all of which are comdemned in the Bible. This is just the way I look at it.

Face it, Contraception is like a Bulimic! With *Contraception *people want the “gratification” but are not “open to life” which is contrary to God’s Natural Plan.

A Bulimic is similar since they want the “gratification” from food but then stick their finger down their throat because they do not want the “weight” which comes with it!!
 
Steven Merten:
Does the Pope ever look at a profit and loss graph when considering the use of the “Keys to the Kingdom” to hold bound or hold sins loost? Does he say to himself, “Wow, Humanae Vitae can potentially add up to the heavenly loss of 900,000 souls of Christ’s one billion Catholics. The loss of Protestant souls to Humanae Vitae is equally horrifying. But I, the Pope, am still going to enforce condom use as a mortal sin with the ‘Keys to the Kingdom’. I still plan no preaching blitz to change such a tragic Church course”

What do you think?

www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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I think the Pope gave a whole set of teaching sermons on sexuality that adequately address this and sexuality in general. You may have heard of them–they have been published for all of us to read in a volume called Theology of the Body. Humanae Vitae is itself a teaching document for all of us. The teaching and information is there–simply most people don’t look and they run from it when it is presented. But the Pope did teach and he did teach forcefully–he gave a lot of sermons on the issue of sexuality.

Peace,
Mark
 
Steven Merten:
Hello Shannon E,

Are you refering to me (Steven Merten)? I simply think it would be nice if some Catholics went to heaven. Many Protestants aquse the Catholic Church of having so many sins that no Catholic can get to heaven.

Do you believe we have more sins than protestants? Isn’t a sin a sin-we all just have different cupability based on our knowledge?
The Church doesn’t make up sins–but it does help us understand what is sinful and helps us to better understand Gods Word and the Moral law.

Though I do not believe in only “accept Jesus as your personal Saviour and you will go to heaven” I also believe in not making it so hard to go to heaven that no Catholic can make it to heaven.

It’s not the Church that makes it hard–God set the terms–again the Church helps us understand those terms, of understanding what is required of us so that we have a better chance of getting into Heaven–not less of a chance.

There are many Catholics out there paying their tithe to feed the poor, obeying God’s commandments with all their strength, trying to do the right thing. Then I hear that possibly up to 90% of Catholics use condoms or tube tying and Church leaders have made this a condemned to hell issue. I just want to discuss how much load Church leaders should put onto Catholics backs. And if they are going to put a huge load onto Catholics backs, are they going to stand behind it and take on the responsibility of making sure they have done all that they can do to help Catholics into heaven with the load that they have placed on their backs. I do not see this as happening.

Again this is not the Church leaders load–God established the moral law. The Church has a duty to point out when we go astray–the simple fact that many no longer want to practice the moral law doesn’t mean that the Church shouldn’t continue to point out proclaim the moral law–leaders would suffer greater condemnation for failing to tell us the moral law as revealed.

Lets focus on getting some Catholics (and Protestants) into heaven.

Isn’t that why we get encyclicals and pastoral letters? Isn’t that why Pope John Paul II gave all those Wednesday sermons–now published in book form? Isn’t this why we have Mass and all the Sacraments? As they say you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make 'em drink!

We shouldn’t water down the message simply because most people don’t want the message we are preaching.

www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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itsjustdave1988:
Contraception is against natural law, and as such, is grave sin for Catholics and non-Catholics. All those who commit grave sin with full advertence and perfect consent of will, and remain impenitent unto death regarding such sin, risk eternal damnation.
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I like this answer. I would go a little further and say that while it is a serious sin (mortal), if the person doesn’t know it is a serious sin, then he or she may go to purgatory whereas someone who KNOWS it is a serious sin and still commits the sin may go to hell.

I only say MAY becuase we ultimatly don’t know what happens at the time of death and when faced with the sins of their lives whether the person repents or not and we don’t know the full Mercy of our Lord Jesus at that time.

God Bless,

Donna
 
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