Does infused knowledge have to be confirmed through acquired knowledge?

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George720 said:
How do they differ?
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Mystical experience us just that, something you learn by an experience in your life.

Infused knowledge is just put thee, in your mind by God, there us no experience. There is no learning.
 
tafan2 said:
Mystical experience us just that, something you learn by an experience in your life.

Infused knowledge is just put thee, in your mind by God, there us no experience. There is no learning.
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Could you provide an example showing the difference?

geo
 
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I only know of two examples of infused knowledge, Adam/Eve and The human nature of Jesus Christ.

Lots of saints have had various private revelations via mystical experiences.
 
George720 said:
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George720:
Have you ever been infused with knowledge?

geo
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I suspected as much, my friend…

Closet mystics are good to find!
WannabeSaint said:
St. Thomas says “There is nothing in the intellect that wasn’t first in the senses.”
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Demons visit and inhabit both senses and intellect…

I wonder which ‘intellect’ St. Thomas meant here… The nous? Or the intellectually discerning thinking faculty of man?
tafan2 said:
Mystical experiences are not the same as infused knowledge.
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How do they differ?
sainteriksrose said:
Isn’t “infused knowledge” a Catholic term?
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I thought so too - A Scholastic term… I have not seen it in Orthodoxy…

geo
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The nous is not purely intellectual, it is the faculty for reception of charismatic knowledge - intuition. It is better to say that the term infused knowledge is not favored by the orthodox. See what Myrrha Lot-Borodine in **La déification de l’homme selon la doctrine des Pères Grecs ** writes:
As the all powerful means of arriving at this goal – supernaturally natural, man whose perfect life is the glory of God, possessed this innate gift love: fruit of will and intelligence, immanent desire for perfection, infused knowledge of the Light. 46
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Vico said:
The nous is not purely intellectual,
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I have always understood it as PRE-intellectual… It is the faculty, if we dare to use such a fleshy term, of man that permits him to attend to material reality, to the soul, and to God… The Orthodox see it as the “Eye of the Heart”… Its nature being a fundamental mystery of the person… “Primal awareness” is another feeble attempt at it… The Director of the intellectual faculty…
It is the faculty for reception of charismatic knowledge - intuition . It is better to say that the term infused knowledge is not favored by the orthodox .
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Indeed - See above… I had always associated infusion with making tea and coffee and the like, and had never “advanced” to using it to describe the process of knowing by revelation… This is the first time I have ever seen it used in this manner in all my Christian (Orthodox, granted) readings…
See what Myrrha Lot-Borodine in **La déification de l’homme selon la doctrine des Pères Grecs ** writes:
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As the all powerful means of arriving at this goal – supernaturally natural, man whose perfect life is the glory of God, possessed this innate gift love: fruit of will and intelligence, immanent desire for perfection, infused knowledge of the Light. 46
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Well no wonder! A Frenchman! Was he one of St. John’s? (of Shanghai and San Francisco?). He is speaking descriptively of an encounter with God that gives knowledge - Not that ANY such encounter should perhaps ever fail to impart knowledge… This usage is but an attempt to indicate a kind of suffusion of knowing by the Holy Spirit - As Elizabeth in the Gospel had when Mary came to her in the 6th month of her pregnancy with John the Baptist… “Filled with the Holy Spirit”… And knowing things she had no way of knowing apart from the visitation by the Holy Spirit… And the Blessed Virgin as well: "All generations shall call me Blessed (Makarios)…

I would be very surprised if Myrrha was using it as a technical term, as the Roman Church seems to be doing, but I could be wrong… Frenchmen, like Greeks and 42% of all Lithuanians, are ALWAYS very questionable, I say!

What he is describing is Theosis, you see… Unless, of course, I am in error…

Is Myrrha a she or a he?

geo
 
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graciew said:
Very interesting, Vico.
Supernaturally natural…wow.
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In Orthodoxy, we call this SUPRA-natural - The top of creation that has UN-natural at the bottom, then natural, then supra-natural… We don’t do the super-natural stuff - Batman and other plastic action superman style toys…

SUPRA is immanent, you see… eg Above from within…

Here is Fr. Dmitri who obviously suffers greatly from such affliction!

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

geo
 
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George720 said:
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Vico:
The nous is not purely intellectual,
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I have always understood it as PRE-intellectual… It is the faculty, if we dare to use such a fleshy term, of man that permits him to attend to material reality, to the soul, and to God… The Orthodox see it as the “Eye of the Heart”… Its nature being a fundamental mystery of the person… “Primal awareness” is another feeble attempt at it… The Director of the intellectual faculty…
It is the faculty for reception of charismatic knowledge - intuition . It is better to say that the term infused knowledge is not favored by the orthodox .
Click to expand...
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Indeed - See above… I had always associated infusion with making tea and coffee and the like, and had never “advanced” to using it to describe the process of knowing by revelation… This is the first time I have ever seen it used in this manner in all my Christian (Orthodox, granted) readings…
See what Myrrha Lot-Borodine in **La déification de l’homme selon la doctrine des Pères Grecs ** writes:
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
As the all powerful means of arriving at this goal – supernaturally natural, man whose perfect life is the glory of God, possessed this innate gift love: fruit of will and intelligence, immanent desire for perfection, infused knowledge of the Light. 46
Click to expand...
Well no wonder! A Frenchman! Was he one of St. John’s? (of Shanghai and San Francisco?). He is speaking descriptively of an encounter with God that gives knowledge - Not that ANY such encounter should perhaps ever fail to impart knowledge… This usage is but an attempt to indicate a kind of suffusion of knowing by the Holy Spirit - As Elizabeth in the Gospel had when Mary came to her in the 6th month of her pregnancy with John the Baptist… “Filled with the Holy Spirit”… And knowing things she had no way of knowing apart from the visitation by the Holy Spirit… And the Blessed Virgin as well: "All generations shall call me Blessed (Makarios)…

I would be very surprised if Myrrha was using it as a technical term, as the Roman Church seems to be doing, but I could be wrong… Frenchmen, like Greeks and 42% of all Lithuanians, are ALWAYS very questionable, I say!

What he is describing is Theosis, you see… Unless, of course, I am in error…

Is Myrrha a she or a he?

geo
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She, Myrrha Lot-Borodine was a Russian-born lay theologian (1882–1957) and was the first to publish on Orthodox doctrine of deification in the West in Revue de Phistorie des religions 1932-1933. She moved from St. Petersburg to Paris when she was 24 (in 1906). She remained attached to Russian Orthodox Metropolitan Evolgy.
 
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Vico said:
She, Myrrha Lot-Borodine was a Russian-born lay theologian (1882–1957) and was the first to publish on Orthodox doctrine of deification in the West in Revue de Phistorie des religions 1932-1933. She moved from St. Petersburg to Paris when she was 24 (in 1906). She remained attached to Russian Orthodox Metropolitan Evolgy.
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I will bet you a thousand dollars to a French Sou she knew St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco when he was in Paris prior to his mission in Shanghai… He left behind a very educated Orthodox following there in the ascetic hesychastic Holy Tradition of the Church…

What a great name for a Russian Frank woman, yes? Pure gold, I would say! I’ll have to look her up and find out how she got to her spiritual condition outside of monasticism… No easy feat, you know…

And so much for my great theory of garden variety Frenchman miscreance!

My theories plus $5 get no change back from Starbucks!

Thank-you, Vico…

geo
 
George720 said:
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Vico:
She, Myrrha Lot-Borodine was a Russian-born lay theologian (1882–1957) and was the first to publish on Orthodox doctrine of deification in the West in Revue de Phistorie des religions 1932-1933. She moved from St. Petersburg to Paris when she was 24 (in 1906). She remained attached to Russian Orthodox Metropolitan Evolgy.
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I will bet you a thousand dollars to a French Sou she knew St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco when he was in Paris prior to his mission in Shanghai… He left behind a very educated Orthodox following there in the ascetic hesychastic Holy Tradition of the Church…

What a great name for a Russian Frank woman, yes? Pure gold, I would say! I’ll have to look her up and find out how she got to her spiritual condition outside of monasticism… No easy feat, you know…

And so much for my great theory of garden variety Frenchman miscreance!

My theories plus $5 get no change back from Starbucks!

Thank-you, Vico…

geo
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You could get some of her works in French.

The Borodine family belonged to the elite. She attended the Prince Oblensky university for women. The, when she moved to Paris, she married Ferdinand Lot the historian. She studied courteous love (Middle Ages Anglo-Saxon) and became an expert in the topic. Her daughter wrote that it drove her to contemplation of Christian Mystery.

I have only seen it listed in print in the French language.
 
EndTimes said:
Does infused knowledge have to be confirmed through acquired knowledge?

Any consensus? Any Clarity?
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You could try it the other way around - Always a good idea, im(notzo)ho…

But first, no one here seems to know exactly what infused knowledge is…

Even so, does acquired knowledge need to be confirmed by infused knowledge?

Because when infused knowledge as I am seeing it happens, acquired knowledge becomes transformed from what one thought it was to what it is…

And descriptives of that include being upside-down, inside-out, and backwards…

Some call this Clarity…

Some Truth…

geo
 
Vico said:
You could get some of her works in French.

The Borodine family belonged to the elite. She attended the Prince Oblensky university for women. The, when she moved to Paris, she married Ferdinand Lot the historian. She studied courteous love (Middle Ages Anglo-Saxon) and became an expert in the topic. Her daughter wrote that it drove her to contemplation of Christian Mystery.

I have only seen it listed in print in the French language.
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She showed up thin online, with nothing in English, and is virtually unknown in the West… I would guess that (St.) John Maximovich encountered her and had something to do with her contemplation - He was exercising his extraordinary Gifts even back then in France… A whole French Ecole developed in Orthodoxy as a consequence of his ministry there…

Did she describe at all her encounter with God that launched her theological writings?

Forgive me, I am assuming you have read her in French…

I suffer strengthless presumption, you know… 🙂

geo
 
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EndTimes said:
Infused Knowledge? As In what God Writes upon our Hearts?
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Well, I asked for an example of it, and got an ostensive definition as Mary and Jesus as the only ones having it, with no other replies…

So how does one discern what God writes on one’s heart?

Because such writing comes slowly with a life lived as one is living it…

Or does it?

Is it instead Revelation?

geo
 
George720 said:
So how does one discern what God writes on one’s heart?
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Via Faith which = being clearly aware of one’s Conscience…

Looking from that other POV
  • When God does something for us - It doesn’t require a Post-PhD in ‘theology’ to Realize/See…
 
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