Does Islam worship the same God?

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Doesn’t it? Further, Mecca IS NOT along major land trade routes in the area. To get from Egypt to Persia or to Greece by land, you would have to go through the land Of the Isrealites.
I thouroughly agree with that:thumbsup:

And this once desolate land is now exporting agricultural products and fertizers around the world. Talk about a middle eastern country exporting flowers to the Netherlands.

Now Compare that to the arid regions surrounding it.

Are we serving a Living God or what!👍
 
**Genesis ch. 12,
4 So Abram left, as the LORD had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he set out from Haran. 5 He took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, all the possessions they had accumulated and the people they had acquired in Haran, and they set out for the land of Canaan, and they arrived there.

6 Abram traveled through the land as far as the site of the great tree of Moreh at Shechem. At that time the Canaanites were in
[SIGN]the land. 7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your offspring [a] I will give this land.
God meant Homeland. Country. Not for Wealth, free get wealthy site.
 
Hello

Calm down. 🙂

Americanrevert
Definitely a muslim but NOT an American idiot who converted. Those two words are uttered over and over to me by born muslim males of Arabic or Turkish extraction AFTER I tell them “Shove off!” Muslim males always tell me “calm down” or “you need doctor” after I tell them to “shove off,” AFTER the call me “whore,” “prostitute” or “*****” after I rebuff their sexual advances.

From the syntax and grammar I am fairly certain “americanrevert” is everyone’s least favourite muslim psychopath “planten.”

What a jerk.

If only the poor and sad cows like “sister amy” could meet the true muslims like planten and not the ones practicing full blown da’wa and taqiyya they would never fall victims to the brainwashing, soul-crushing cult called islam.
 
I believe everyone worships the same God no matter what faith. They just call Him something or someone else… and there may be more than one. 😉

It all depends on how you see it through diverse eyes. 🙂

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
I keep having to bring up Acknanton’s Ra. Just because he worshipped one god, it still didn’t make it anything other than the sun that he was worshipping. Just as with allah. allah is more a combination of mohammed and his pagan moon god though. Now, I don’t know all the details of Acknanton’s Ra but even so it wasn’t a war mongering god either. allah was/is.

If you read the koran and at least one of the accepted books of hadiths (Bukhari’s let us say) you will see what I am talking about. As mohammed degenerated, so did his allah. As mohammed gained in power the more allah became more like mohammed.

And even mohammed told the muslims to read the Bible for the ‘truth of the Lord’. But, then mohammed made allah fickle. He started to change the mind of his allah by changing the message of the Bible. And then a 2nd time, he changed the message of the koran.

They can say all the pretty prayers they want and we can be moved by the words all we want to be moved. It is still mohammed/allah that you are praying to and God warned us many times not to worship the sun, moon (allah/mohammed), and the other things in the sky.
  • Deut. 4:19 And when you look up to the heavens and behold the sun or the moon or any star among the heavenly hosts, do not be led astray into adoring them and serving hem. These the Lord, your God has let fall to the lot of all other nations under the heavens.
  • Deut. 17:3 …by serving other gods, or by worshiping the sun or the moon or any of he host of the sky, against my command.
  • II Kngs. 21:3,5; II Kngs. 23:5; Jer. 8:2; 19:13; Zeph. 1:5
 
Well, good for you but I do have a problem and I am not a sinner for doing so, and I will continue to post as I see as correct.

And here we differ. I take the warning in the Bible about worshipping the sun, moon and other things in the sky seriously. You can believe that mohammed/allah/pagan moon god is the God of Israel - but I do not.

If Acknanton was searching - good for him. I applaud him. He also was not a murdering thug like mohammed. Which I have also posted when I compared the sun god to the moon god cults.
  • Deut. 4:19 And when you look up to the heavens and behold the sun or the moon or any star among the heavenly hosts, do not be led astray into adoring them and serving hem. These the Lord, your God has let fall to the lot of all other nations under the heavens.
  • Deut. 17:3 …by serving other gods, or by worshiping the sun or the moon or any of he host of the sky, against my command.
  • II Kngs. 21:3,5; II Kngs. 23:5; Jer. 8:2; 19:13; Zeph. 1:5
You can post all the pretty words you want to post about the sun, or the moon, gods. That still does not make them the God of Israel, or YHWH.
 
You can believe that mohammed/allah/pagan moon god is the God of Israel - but I do not.
Of course neither do Muslims believe that Mohammad was the god of Israel. They don’t believe he was a god at all. Basic mistakes like this make your arguments hard to take seriously, R_not.
 
Of course neither do Muslims believe that Mohammad was the god of Israel. They don’t believe he was a god at all. Basic mistakes like this make your arguments hard to take seriously, R_not.
Actually, they worship Muhammad as they do Allah, the Black Rock and the Quran. Their behavior says as much. In fact, diss Muhammad and you die when in their lands. Now they really have no power unless/until they gain power and they work towards that end.

I don’t find the argument off base at all. They will deny it all the time, but the behavior speaks differently. Just as the behavior of the masses of Muslims speak differently about Islam being peaceful. I find their silence concerning the violent Jihadists, their inaction, as acceptance of the violent jihadists. The day after Hamas cease fire they started up the bombing again and all was ok in the Muslim world with that. The violence in the Philippines, or the Sudan, or anywhere is ok when the masses do nothing about it among their own. When they (clerics) are caught time and again preaching violence and/or hatred in their mosques and then turn around and say we are the ones misunderstanding it - that speaks volumes.

‘Silence is acceptance’, Muhammed.
 
Actually, they worship Muhammad as they do Allah, the Black Rock and the Quran. Their behavior says as much. In fact, diss Muhammad and you die when in their lands. Now they really have no power unless/until they gain power and they work towards that end.
And yet when Christians do not act Christ-like we don’t say that Christianity teaches the opposite of what it presumes to teach (or some such nonsense).

I think when dealing with other religions you have to take at face value what they say they believe. Otherwise you’re assuming you know more than they do about their own religion, which frankly is delusional.
 
where is the logic in Islam?
From biblestudying.net/islam1.html
…Anyone can stand up and claim to have a message from God or about God. But the question is, as people who sincerely want to know, how are we to determine whether or not someone is actually speaking the truth from God? How are we to know if they are speaking divine truths or if they are just pretending or delusional?
… Essentially, there are only two choices. Mohammed can confirm previous scriptures and apostles and attempt to claim validity for himself by means of those past apostles and scriptures. Or, Mohammed can deny those previous scriptures and apostles and stand alone by himself as one voice speaking against them.
To understand the significance of this, we must understand that Mohammed admittedly performed no miracles…to attest to his message [and this] is made even more ironic by the fact that according to the Koran some of the previous apostles, which the Koran appeals to for validation, did perform miracles.
…While a strong case will be made that Christianity and its sacred texts actually deny Islamic beliefs and Islamic sacred texts, this is not the case with Islam. Islam actually endorses and in fact relies upon the divine legitimacy of both Judaism and Christianity as religions established by God. We will demonstrate this point thoroughly by quotes from the Islamic sacred text, the Koran.
…In the Koran, Islam’s dependence upon Judaism and Christianity comes primarily in two forms. First, the Koran constantly asserts that the apostles who founded Judaism and Christianity are God’s apostles and of the same merit as Mohammed himself. Second, the Koran actually specifically and unequivocally affirms the God-inspired nature of both Jewish and Christian scriptures. As we establish these two forms of endorsement, we will also discuss the practical necessity, which motivates Islam to make such affirmations of Judeo-Christian apostles and scriptures.
But, the fact that Islam itself affirms the divine origin of Judeo-Christian apostles and sacred texts dramatically alters the dynamic of our analysis of the two religions. Instead of having a scenario in which each religion denies the other’s claims and sacred texts, Islam actually endorses and relies upon the divine trueness of Judaism and Christianity.
So long as both religions declared each other to be false, we’d have to decide which of the two (if either) was true. But since Islam inherently and repeatedly relies on Judaism and Christianity being of divine origin, the claims and sacred texts of Judeo-Christianity would have to be compatible with Islam. If the sacred texts of Judeo-Christianity contradict Islam while Islam upholds their reliability and divine origin, then Islam is in contradiction of itself.
On the one hand, Islam claims Judeo-Christianity and its sacred texts originate from God and from other apostles like Mohammed. But on the other hand, what if these religions and their sacred texts deny or contradict Islam? This would mean either one of two things.
First, Mohammed and Islam are in contradiction of what the Koran itself repeatedly declares to be God’s apostles and God’s scriptures. Or second, Judeo-Christianity and its sacred texts are incorrect on all points and issues where they contradict Islam. But if the Judeo-Christian apostles and scriptures, which the Koran affirms as God’s work, are in error, then they cannot be God’s work as the Koran claims. And that would mean that the Koran is in error for affirming them as God-given predecessors, in which case Islam would also be nullified.
In either case, if the Judeo-Christian beliefs and sacred texts contradict Islam and the Koran, then Islam is in error through contradiction, not just contradiction with Judeo-Christianity, but contradiction with itself because of the endorsement claims made by the Koran.
[Long analysis here]
Conclusions about Islam
So, we conclude from this intensive study that we must reject Islam’s claims… There are two main reasons for this rejection. First, though Islam has historically identifiable origins, these origins do not provide any reason for concluding that Mohammed’s teachings are an accurate view of God, the universe, and mankind. Instead, the circumstances surrounding the origin and rise of Islam can clearly be understood simply as a product of normal human affairs and ambitions.
…the evidence that Islam does offer to substantiate the accuracy of its claims has shown to be invalid. Islam contends that it is the final successor to the Judeo-Christian tradition, which it claims expected Islam and which Islam also claims to fulfill and confirm. However, as we have shown above [the long analysis] neither Judaism nor Christianity allows for the teachings of Mohammed. And additionally, Islam undermines the fundamental claims made by both of its supposed predecessors.
Islam is also invalidated by its claims to come from and uphold the Judeo-Christian tradition, which Islam claims is from God. Since the Judeo-Christian tradition in no way permits Islamic teaching, then Islam must be in error either in its own teaching, which deviates from that of Judaism and Christianity, or Islam must be in error in its assertion that the Judeo-Christian tradition is of God.
Despite the fact that Islam is an Evidentiary religion, an examination of that evidence has revealed that it does not substantiate the claims of Islam. But instead, the evidence offered actually contradicts Islam. So, for both of the reasons summarized in the preceding paragraphs, we reject the claims of Islam.
Also, this analysis explains that if Christianity is true, it can account for the rise of Islam, but if Islam is true, Christianity [on which Islam relies] makes no sense.
 
And yet when Christians do not act Christ-like we don’t say that Christianity teaches the opposite of what it presumes to teach (or some such nonsense).

I think when dealing with other religions you have to take at face value what they say they believe. Otherwise you’re assuming you know more than they do about their own religion, which frankly is delusional.
I am taking it at face value. The Quran initially said to read the Bible because it is the ‘truth from the Lord’, and then when Muhammad wasn’t being taken seriously, he changed his mind. Or I should say, ‘Allah’s mind’. Then after Muhammad moved to Medina, Muhammad gained power. Then Allah took some drastic changes. Not only did Allah forget what he said previously, but became deceptive, wanting violence in his name and became very concerned over Muhammad’s place next to him on Judgement Day, and also Muhammad’s choice of women, etc.

You can call it what you wish, but Islam is Muhammad worship along with Allah worship. And often the two intermix.

It is why Allah looks to be so bipolar. It is all from their own Quran. Either the Bible is the truth, or it is corrupted. No Muslim has proven that it is corrupted. Then even their theology, predestination being a part of it. With Muhammad even forgetting that he says that everyone is predestined Muhammad starts giving out rules and regulations for them to follow. What for? If they are predestined, why all the hoopla? And even at that, how can they believe anything if Allah is the greatest deceiver.

Then the other two things in Islam - taqiyya and kithman. You tell me to take what Muslims say at face value. How can you when they are probably practicing taqiyya. Especially after one reads the Quran and reading the words of the Muslims and seeing how they behave - I have serious doubts.

When the Israeli and Gaza were at war, these peaceful Muslims were clearly on the side of Hamas. And now that Hamas has resumed lobbing bombs into Israel they are all calm again. And most of the atrocites were committed by Hamas. But, that is ok just so long as no infidel is striking back at a Muslim. All is well in the world. ‘Silence is acceptance’, per Muhammad. Sorry, but I have to repeat that since the behavior of Muslims speaks quite differently of them being peaceful. Especially when they have their Muhammad telling them to lie when they need to lie.

I have to go now. Jobs are scarce and I need to keep mine! 😉
 
I am taking it at face value.
You’re not taking what they say about their religion at face value. You reinterpret everything about it in such a way that it barely resembles anything they would recognize. No Muslim would ever say “We worship Mohammad.” An important teaching of their faith is that God is not to be anthropomorphized; this is why there are no pictorial depictions of god in their religious artwork. So obviously worshipping Mohammad, a mere man, would be unthinkable to them.
The Quran initially said to read the Bible because it is the ‘truth from the Lord’, and then when Muhammad wasn’t being taken seriously, he changed his mind. Or I should say, ‘Allah’s mind’. Then after Muhammad moved to Medina, Muhammad gained power. Then Allah took some drastic changes. Not only did Allah forget what he said previously, but became deceptive, wanting violence in his name and became very concerned over Muhammad’s place next to him on Judgement Day, and also Muhammad’s choice of women, etc.
You can call it what you wish, but Islam is Muhammad worship along with Allah worship. And often the two intermix.
According to you, who do not practice the religion. Neither do I, but I know enough to know that what you are saying is grotesquely innaccurate, and no muslim would agree with it.
Then the other two things in Islam - taqiyya and kithman. You tell me to take what Muslims say at face value. How can you when they are probably practicing taqiyya. Especially after one reads the Quran and reading the words of the Muslims and seeing how they behave - I have serious doubts.
How convenient for you.
When the Israeli and Gaza were at war, these peaceful Muslims were clearly on the side of Hamas.
Some were; some were Hamas fighters even. But others were caught in the crossfire and apparently, very angry at Hamas. By all accounts Hamas terrorizes the civilian population in Gaza and I don’t think we have any reason to assume all Gazans are complicit because of the relative silence; there may be other reasons why they are silent.
I have to go now. Jobs are scarce and I need to keep mine! 😉
Good luck.
 
There is no excuse; they disobeyed the commandments of Jesus to their own ends, meaning, their faith wasn’t towards God, but towards themselves, because the words they believed were not of God, but of themselves.
So the failings of these men are the fault of Catholic doctrine? If Catholic doctrine is responsible, then how can you fault the men who carried it out if that’s what they believed? On the other hand, if they acted counter to Catholic doctrine, then you can’t blame the doctrine. You are trying to have it both ways.
 
You’re not taking what they say about their religion at face value. You reinterpret everything about it in such a way that it barely resembles anything they would recognize. No Muslim would ever say “We worship Mohammad.” An important teaching of their faith is that God is not to be anthropomorphized; this is why there are no pictorial depictions of god in their religious artwork. So obviously worshipping Mohammad, a mere man, would be unthinkable to them.

According to you, who do not practice the religion. Neither do I, but I know enough to know that what you are saying is grotesquely innaccurate, and no muslim would agree with it.

How convenient for you.

Some were; some were Hamas fighters even. But others were caught in the crossfire and apparently, very angry at Hamas. By all accounts Hamas terrorizes the civilian population in Gaza and I don’t think we have any reason to assume all Gazans are complicit because of the relative silence; there may be other reasons why they are silent.

Good luck.
Maybe you should read/view more of what ex-Muslims say. And of course they won’t agree with it. I already stated that, it is their behavior that speaks volumes. I really do have to go now, and can post (or repost what others have posted about the former Muslims talking about Islam). You can disagree with me, but I don’t see anything other than you disagreeing with me to convince me otherwise.

As for the silence - fear, blind acceptance, or just acceptance. And if we keep silent out of fear then we are just as bad as them. Especially when we have a lot of European and American, and also Canadian, etc Muslims who are silent. And they are not that silent if you have ever witnessed their behavior when someone brings up the plight of Muslim women in Islam. They shout down the speaker(s). I have witnessed that in a University in California. And their silence is not that silent when they shout and march and wave Hamas flags and shout nasties against the Jews. Little Muslimahs who won’t even look at you in other circumstances certainly know how to open their mouths to shout vulgarities then! I saw that in SF. And that is what was happening worldwide in their protests about the war.

No one is holding Muslims, or Muslim nations, accountable for anything. Just like the latest cease fire they broke the day after they made the agreement. Not a peep out of anyone. But their march to censor us discussig Muhammad is still going on.
 
There were Muslim Native Americans prior to the arrival of Columbus? Where can I read more about this from objective sources?

I have never heard such a thing.
Didn’t planten tell us that there would be no second coming of Jesus? Now Americanrevert says there will be. I wonder which it is.
 
Maybe you should read/view more of what ex-Muslims say. And of course they won’t agree with it. I already stated that, it is their behavior that speaks volumes. I really do have to go now, and can post (or repost what others have posted about the former Muslims talking about Islam). You can disagree with me, but I don’t see anything other than you disagreeing with me to convince me otherwise.
Well naturally. All I’m trying to do is correct your statement that muslims worship their prophet, which is contrary to what they say they believe. If you will not believe them, then why should you believe me?

The rest of your post is interesting (wasn’t the Iraq war a kind of retribution, at least psychologically for many Americans, for the 9/11 attacks despite the fact that Iraq was not a party to 9/11) but not really relevant to the topic at hand.
 
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