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AnneElizabeth
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Most people would think of sinning as easy.
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RemRam
Guest
Re: Does it take courage to commit suicide? - Yes, but still a cowardly act I guess.
But it takes greater courage not to do it, live life and face the problems.
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PrayHarder
Guest
By that logic, anything that is difficult cannot be sinful which is clearly false. It’s still early for me and the coffee hasn’t kicked in yet, but there are many sins which require quite a bit of effort. I’m sure others can rattle off a few.
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Sarah_Angel
Guest
No. It takes a lot of despair and fear of the world to commit suicide.
If you are thinking about suicide and you find that you can’t go through with it, that means that even a sliver of hope remains in your spirit.
If you are thinking about suicide and you find that you can’t go through with it, that means that even a sliver of hope remains in your spirit.
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chaela_may
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it might be that a person has courage and still commits suicide, but i think it more likely that despair and other factors are just outweighing the courage, not that courage itself has anything to do with completing the act.
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User124
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It depends on the situation.
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Bezant
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Is there a particular reason you’re asking this question?
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RPRPsych
Guest
No. The only Biblical figures I remember who took that option were Ahithophel (2 Samuel 17) and Judas (Matthew 27), and both of them weren’t being courageous. And when Tobit and Sarah prayed for death, they were given deliverance instead.
It’s true that some factors - especially mental illness or overwhelming life circumstances - can mitigate the responsibility that goes with an attempted or completed suicide, but suicide is never a courageous act. And “suicide bombers” are perhaps the biggest cowards of all, because not only do they end their life for a lie, they take the lives of innocent people who want to live.
As a wise man once said, “Living well is the best revenge.”
It’s true that some factors - especially mental illness or overwhelming life circumstances - can mitigate the responsibility that goes with an attempted or completed suicide, but suicide is never a courageous act. And “suicide bombers” are perhaps the biggest cowards of all, because not only do they end their life for a lie, they take the lives of innocent people who want to live.
As a wise man once said, “Living well is the best revenge.”
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AlanFromWichita
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They would certainly be cowards under the value system we, as Christians, profess. For a religion where they are considered spiritual heroes for dying in the process of taking out other humans, would you say that also is cowardice? And would it be personally cowardly, or is it mitigated if it’s institutionalized?
Another related question is, what is considered “courageous” in protecting one’s own life? Like St. Maria Gordetti, who chose to end her life rather than compromise her virginity. Would it not have been more courageous for her to endure the injury and insult, and then have to live with it – than to accept a quick end to her life? I’m not saying I believe that – I’m only posing it as a question to ponder. On that last point, would it be morally required for a Catholic woman to “courageously” disregard police advice and refuse to submit to an attacker?
Alan
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newprestonpete
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Absolutely not.
It takes courage to seek help if you are contemplating suicide.
It takes courage to think of your family and friends and put them ahead of yourself.
It takes courage to forge ahead when you think you cannot make it in life.
Suicide is not courageous and it is not noble.
Suicide is the easy way out.
Suicide is selfish.
Suicide is cowardly.
Suicide is the ultimate deception by Satan.
Suicide is a mortal sin.
My .02 cents
It takes courage to seek help if you are contemplating suicide.
It takes courage to think of your family and friends and put them ahead of yourself.
It takes courage to forge ahead when you think you cannot make it in life.
Suicide is not courageous and it is not noble.
Suicide is the easy way out.
Suicide is selfish.
Suicide is cowardly.
Suicide is the ultimate deception by Satan.
Suicide is a mortal sin.
My .02 cents
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jmcrae
Guest
Sidebar –On that last point, would it be morally required for a Catholic woman to “courageously” disregard police advice and refuse to submit to an attacker?
Alan
The police don’t recommend to women to submit to an attacker, that I am aware of. They say, scream, bite, scratch, fight back, and run.
They tell us that yelling “Fire” is more effective than yelling “Rape” because people are attracted to fire and they will come running to see the fire - which will frighten the rapist and cause him to run away.
They also tell us that if you bite down deep in his flesh and scratch him really hard, they can take a DNA sample from your teeth and fingernails, to help track him down for an arrest.
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AlanFromWichita
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That is one thing they advise, to do anything to get away especially with evidence. They also advise that if it ends up being killed v. submit, to submit. Show me any police department that says to give your life instead of submitting to an unavoidable rape. In other words, what police department in the United States would advise women in safety classes to intentionally – when faced with imminent death and no escape – make the decision Maria Gordetti did?
Also, did Maria Gordetti fight and scratch? My point is that acting like a saint is not what the police now advise. So is it more courageous to obey the police or act like a saint?
Alan
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SilverCamellia
Guest
I’d say yes, it does require courage - at least if you think about the afterlife, because you’d be jumping straight into the unknown, with no way back.
A few times in my life I’ve been severely suicidal - making plans, collecting means of committing suicide, writing goodbye notes - I was once hospitalised for it, and there is at least one other occasion when I believe I should have been.Now by nature I am, I admit it, a coward in some ways - including when taking risks - and although I wasn’t religious at the time, I had been to a Christian school and I feared hell. I was also afraid I would change my mind at the very last minute and then not be able to back out.
For those who are impulsive by nature, maybe suicide does require courage. But I suppose it depends on how much the suicidal person thought about what was going to happen. A spur of the moment decision, with no planning and no thought as to what might happen after death or what friends and family might feel - I can’t see how that would be courageous. The only time that I can see that suicide would be courageous would be in the form of self-sacrifice - willingly allowing oneself to die in order than others may live.
And to be honest, this reminds me of what Jesus did for us - he knew what was going to happen and he knew he would die, but he didn’t run away to the far side of the Roman empire to escape his fate. Instead he went willingly to his death and sacrificed his life for us.
A few times in my life I’ve been severely suicidal - making plans, collecting means of committing suicide, writing goodbye notes - I was once hospitalised for it, and there is at least one other occasion when I believe I should have been.Now by nature I am, I admit it, a coward in some ways - including when taking risks - and although I wasn’t religious at the time, I had been to a Christian school and I feared hell. I was also afraid I would change my mind at the very last minute and then not be able to back out.
For those who are impulsive by nature, maybe suicide does require courage. But I suppose it depends on how much the suicidal person thought about what was going to happen. A spur of the moment decision, with no planning and no thought as to what might happen after death or what friends and family might feel - I can’t see how that would be courageous. The only time that I can see that suicide would be courageous would be in the form of self-sacrifice - willingly allowing oneself to die in order than others may live.
And to be honest, this reminds me of what Jesus did for us - he knew what was going to happen and he knew he would die, but he didn’t run away to the far side of the Roman empire to escape his fate. Instead he went willingly to his death and sacrificed his life for us.
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jmcrae
Guest
That’s not really suicide, I don’t think - it’s simply, to choose to do something virtuous, that will most likely end in one’s own death.
I think of the guy who gave up his seat in a life boat so that two children could have it. He knew he would drown, but he did it because if he didn’t, then the children would have drowned. He didn’t intend to drown, though. His intention was to save the lives of those two kids.
And again, this was not suicide - it was the virtuous choice to not run away from the consequences of his teaching and his actions. It is only because we are sinners that those consequences included death - they should have embraced Him and made Him their high priest, chief prophet, and king. But instead they chose to crucify Him.
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SilverCamellia
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Yes, that’s true. Thanks for correcting my thinking
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
Some people think suicide is the coward’s way out, but personally, I think it is the ultimate way of taking control of your life.
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AnneElizabeth
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Yes and no…
I mean… I saw the question posted on another board - secular. It kind of rattled me when I thought about it. I wanted to post it here because I wanted to see what the catholic response was. And maybe I wanted to just ask the question so that others might see a different response than one you might find on a secular message board somewhere. I think I just didn’t know what to think.
To be honest, I felt maybe I should not have posted this question here- I was afraid it was too controversial (and almost deleted it), but at the same time I wanted it to be discussed. From what I’ve read on the topic, its seems there is a lot of confusion these days over suicide (the topic of euthanasia seems to be brought up more and more). I should know better as a Catholic, but I guess from reading so much secular views to get a broader view on a subject, one has a tendency to start falling for any lies of the enemy… perhaps maybe I was (believing it could be an ok option-shivers). I know there are a lot of people hurting out there. (It was the news article about there being more deaths from suicide than auto accidents in the US that brought all this on.)
I wouldn’t advocate suicide- no way. Its horrific… but I can’t say I think that of the of the people who do it themselves. It couldn’t be an easy thing to decide, I think and I guess in some way that got me stumped as to how I should think about it. Perhaps I posted more out of compassion? Confusion? Frustration? Fear for souls? You wish you could have reached out in some way, I guess.
I agree full heartedly with RemRam’s reply.
chaela_may- so you mean to say then that they are being pushed towards it, and not brave to face and fight back or even know enough to recognize that which is pushing them? I think that is really keen and spot on- perhaps why suicide is so problematic- they don’t know enough about what is going on to fight back.
SilverCamellia - I’m glad you are still here. I’m sorry you had gone through that. May Jesus keep you close to His Heart.
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AnneElizabeth
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I would have to agree, but wouldn’t that be bad? I think we are told basically via faith that if we believe we are actually in control of our lives that it is a fallacy. God ultimately is, we just don’t want to think of it that way.
It seems to me that suicide to take ultimate control of ones life would be sort of like imploding and not exploding… yet both are destructive, but somehow imploding just sounds more noble? Yet it is not. It does its own kind of damage outwardly in many awful ways.
Again, I think its more about not having the facts… not having put forth enough thought to the big question of 'life". Or at least, not having found a true answer.
I’ll be honest, I watched a film (against my better judgement) about suicides on the golden gate bridge. At the end there was a gentleman who committed suicide. I know I am not the only one who felt horrified to watch it, even though we knew it was coming. I think there is a certain sense of … NO! Hold on!!! You want him to wait on things, hold him, or something. Its traumatic. I felt like I just witnessed a good soul (God loves all) get overwhelmed by demons- like you could almost see it occurring before he jumped, when it didn’t have to be that way at all.
When I read more about his life, I felt it was no wonder how he succumbed to it (No father all his life, no real close family, he also knew growing up that his mother, when she found out she was pregnant with him, was planning to have an abortion, and other life disappointments) , yet it still didn’t have to end that way. I often wonder if he knew and saw the outpouring for him now… now that 1,000’s of people witnessed his action that day and had such an outpouring of compassion, would he have gone through with it? It haunts me and its been several months since I watched it.
Yet, I can assess and understand that what he decided to do, he did it because it might have been the only thing he knew how to do… all that was modeled to him to do, as something noble. It was wrong, but just so misinformed for lack of a better term.
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AnneElizabeth
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Maybe, does it take greater courage to face God? Could suicide be a mistaken path to try and face God in the wrong way? Maybe they erroneously felt God was trying to defeat them rather than viewing their troubles as the only way God could bring them closer to Him and thus bring them out of misery?
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AnneElizabeth
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Not sure I follow you… Temptation comes before sin… so I would have to guess that meant it was the more desired, thus easier, route chosen?
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