Does Jesus set the bar too high?

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Fauken said:
If he was sinful, then God is sinful and not worthy of worship. We may not be as perfect as Jesus, but we’re not called to be perfect. We’re called to be holy!
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Actually, according to Matthew 5:48, we are:

“So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

It wasn’t Jesus who set the bar high, it was God. He made us to be good and every single one of us will fail. We all have sinned, and we will all fail at our judgement if we try to stand on our own. That’s why we have this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Cristo_crucificado.jpg(image larger than 4096KB)

And then this:


And that is the good news. We will all fail, we are all doomed, and when we face that great and terrible day we will know in the face of true justice that we all deserve to hear “Depart from me.” Yet, our hope is in the resurrected Son of God standing up on that day and saying “I know you. This one is mine.”

We only need to live our lives out loving the one who claims us with his own blood. A lifetime simply isn’t enough time to give the thanks and love he deserves for that. <3
 
Delphinus said:
Yet, our hope is in the resurrected Son of God standing up on that day and saying “I know you. This one is mine.”
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“Oh no not you. Get over there with the other reprehensibles. Be grateful I haven’t sent you straight to North Korea.”
 
Delphinus said:
Actually, according to Matthew 5:48, we are:

“So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
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And what does perfection mean in this context?

From Haydock’s Biblical Commentary:
“Ver. 48. Jesus Christ here sums up his instructions by ordering us to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect; i.e. to imitate, as far as our exertions, assisted by divine grace, can reach, the divine perfection.”
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Which is holiness.

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Delphinus said:
It wasn’t Jesus who set the bar high, it was God.
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🤨 Jesus is God.
Delphinus said:
We all have sinned, and we will all fail at our judgement if we try to stand on our own.
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Delphinus said:
We will all fail, we are all doomed, and when we face that great and terrible day we will know in the face of true justice that we all deserve to hear “Depart from me.” Yet, our hope is in the resurrected Son of God standing up on that day and saying “I know you. This one is mine.”

We only need to live our lives out loving the one who claims us with his own blood. A lifetime simply isn’t enough time to give the thanks and love he deserves for that. <3
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And so in His great merciful love He asked us to do something literally impossible? If we are doomed to fail, then we are doomed to not be perfect. I doubt this is what you mean. How then do you reconcile those two things?
 
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  1. Jesus (The Son) is fully united yet also distinct from God the Father. God the Father set the law in place in how he designed the world to be, then created it through the Son. I hope I can assume you’re nitpicking a bit here and actually do know what I mean? Jesus didn’t set the bar when he lived 2,000 years ago, the bar was set at the foundation of the world. He just lived it out.
  2. Yes that is exactly what I mean. We are commanded to live completely sinless, righteous lives exactly as Jesus did, obedient even unto the point of unjust and undeserved death. This doesn’t mean we do everything perfectly or never make mistakes, it just means we never SIN. I’m sure Jesus had to learn things int he normal way in His earthly life, too. Only Jesus and Mary have accomplished this, and Mary credits her success ONLY to the grace of God, her savior. God has asked us not to do the impossible, but to do exactly what he created us to do - never sin. But can anyone here say that they have accomplished this? That’s why the cross is foolishness to all who don’t understand it. In it is reconciled exactly what you said: the fact that we must do what we have chosen not to do (sin is a choice, always) and yet God works around it in His love and grace to meet us where we are. In our humanity, in our sinfulness by taking it upon himself and dying on that cross. On that cross the irreconcilable IS reconciled.
 
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The saints have all attained perfection and there isn’t truly an excuse for us if we have not.
 
To live without sin is our original state, at the moment we are all wounded and very much need a doctor, we have Jesus.
 
If you are going to worship someone, make that a perfect person. Otherwise, what’s the point? If he or she was imperfect, or a sinner, why believe or follow them?

Yeah yeah, I know that millions follow various sinful and charismatic leaders.

Bad choice.
 
No, He doesnt set the bar too high. He can’t be sinful otherwise we would have nothing to aim for and no respect for Him, He’d be a man.

As for weakness, He does show human weakness as He is fully human and fully God, the garden of Gethsemane is a lesson to us on human weakness where Jesus shows us His human weakness by saying how afraid He is (to the point of death) and askes His disciples to come and be with Him and He prays to God over and over again asking if possible for the cup of suffering to be taken away… but then shows bravery in His human weakness and shows us what we must always do, choose God’s will not ours. This whole scene is a lesson to us on what to do when faced with our human weakness, turn to God in prayer, even if we dont think or feel he is there and especially when we feel abandoned by our family and friends we must keep praying and count on God to strengthen us (God sends the angel to strengthen Jesus) and do God’s will and what great thing comes out of that human weakness is the salvation of humankind. Jesus does God’s will despite this human weakness and fear and with God’s strength he saves the entire world.

In order to have empathy for Jesus you need only meditate on His humanity and see the lessons He has put forward for us. There are literally reams of them in the gospels. The gospels are a blueprint on how to live our lives. Jesus’ humanity is right there in the words of the apostles and St Paul and in fact they are well lived out in the lives of the saints too. Jesus doesnt require us to be successful only to try our very best. A priest once gave me that advice… try your best. I thought it was a platitude. But it’s not because the better you get the better your best gets and the closer to Jesus your best gets also. So just keep on trying harder and God will help you get your best where it needs to be.
 
goodcatholic said:
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Zaccheus:
You want Jesus to sin!?
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Word/phrase twisting is a very common practice on here I notice
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If I’ve misconstrued your words I apologize. I would be interested in your explanation of what you did mean.
 
“By this - we know - that we love - the children of God,
when we love God,
and keep his commandments.
For this is - the love of God,
that we keep his commandments:
and his commandments - are not - grievous.”
 
Paul wrote, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” … Every one of us has spurned God. To say we have not is to take pride in oneself (which is a sin). Paul wrote in Romans 2:10, “It is written: none is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.”
 
Say you had a basketball… and there was a basketball court in your neighborhood… would you set out to get the weakest sad-sacks around you to build a team to challenge other neighborhood’s basketball teams?

A few days ago someone injected into a thread the idea that Jesus was, if only by default, causing people to get drunk by providing them with a fresh supply of wine (at Cana). Could you imagine what people would do with a ‘Jesus, as sinful as the next person?’

What is most difficult is humbly submitting our will to God’s!

Everyone wants to be the captain of the universe!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
goodcatholic said:
Word/phrase twisting is a very common practice on here I notice
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It also lies in ourselves–what we often seem to think is clear and precise is only so in our own minds…

…here’s my take on what you’ve stated: you want a “weak” and “sinful” Jesus as your model so that we can have a built-in excuse for our failures and weaknesses.

No. No twisting words. That’s the understanding I received from your statement.

Maran atha!

Angel

PS.: I ignored the crack about CAF causing people to become less holy (just saying).
 
Are the money lenders cheaters who are trampling your home and making a mockery of the holiness they purport to be aiding?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
goodcatholic said:
How depressing! 🙂
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…you keep going at this the wrong way…

None of us can please God; no matter what. St. Paul explains that we do not have the power on our own to fulfill the Law (Ten Commandments) but God did not just throw us into an island, naked, and with our wits as our shield and purveyor:
56 Now the sting of death is sin: and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who hath given us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast and unmoveable; always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. (1 Corinthians 15)
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Jesus put is quite simply:
28 Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you. 29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls. 30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light. (St. Matthew 11)
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On this the Protestants have it right: God will view us in Jesus; how we abide in Him will be the difference (St. John 15:1-10; 1:1-14; 3:14-21).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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