Yes, that interpretation is also legitimate - that’s why I used the word “often” instead of “always” in my original answer.
That’s how I understand it as well.I thought Latin “purgatory” was described more as a cleansing of temporal venial sins–the backwash so to say.
I’m thinking your interpretation causes Scripture to contradict itself. You are saying that the image of the Rich Man talking to Abraham means that the Rich Man will somehow cross over at some later “time.” However, the parable definitely states that the gulf between the Rich Man and Abraham is UNBRIDGEABLE. Either Scripture is wrong, or you are mistaken in your interpretation of the parable as a reference to Purgatory.
What my point is that this place could not have been hell, and it could not have been heaven. IT was a temporal hell, But I was taught the only way God will not forgive you for a sin isr to not stop that sin, and not be truely sorry, and secondly reject God all of your life, and forever. In this world we go to confession, and repent. Now The CCC that Mickey was talking about was talking about angels. They were angels that lived in the dark and rejected Jesus forever. The devil is on example. He could never get into heaven, he is against God has been from the get go, and thats that. But I was never told that anyone that dies in the state of venial sin cannot go to heaven, Mortal sin is what the CCC was talking about. I was told that when we meet God we are judged. Then and there. Yes if we are in mortal sin, we will not get to purgatory. But think about it nothing unclean can enter heaven, IF we go through this final process it is a final cleansing and that final cleansing is purgatory. Now the rich man did not die in mortal sin, mortal sin is knowingly sin against God. The rich man did not understand that, if he did why did he want to come back and tell his brothers. Now purgatory is the final place to clean you, now what are we being cleaned of if not our final sins that God forgave us for. Just like confession, when we confess the priest says you are forgiven. He does not say repent and come back. He forgives us and then we repent. Mortal sin is alot different then venial sin. We cannot live all of our lives rejecting God and then at the last minute say its okay If there is a God I will confess and repent in the next world. No, we must live our lives in belief, and do our best to follow the ten commandments. But that is why the final cleansing is needed because of venial sin, and that final cleansing to me has to be a final place for sins that were not repented in this world. Because if we die completely cleansed that would me no sin at all correct. Because is not the final place cleaning us from our final sins, if not what is making us unclean? I always was told sin is what makes us unclean.
I’m not sure I agree with you regarding the issue of “unbridgeable.” I think we can agree to disagree on that (since it’s not one of the several verses that the Catholic Church has officially pronounced on).
I agree with you on the non-ability to repent after death. I also think forgiveness can occur after death via (Mt 12:32).
Okay lets look at this another way, Do you believe that if some dies and have sin, but do not have grave sin if they can get into heaven? Lets start there.
Venial sin by definition can be forgiven after death. Not so with mortal sin.I found this the other day on Roman Catholic theology.
It may do a better job then I.
Roman Catholics make a distinction between Mortal sin and venial sin. Mortal sin is grave violation of Gods law. Venial sin is forgivable sin, does not set us in direct opposition ot the will and friendship of God.
RC believes a pardon of sins and purification can occur during life. For example Baptism and Penance. However if purification is not achieved in life VENIAL sins can still be purified after death. The speciifc name given to this purification after death is purgatory.
Now again that is what I was taught. Now if in my own ignorance I have explained something totally different I apologize. But I see confession the same way, purification and I see purification as repenting. If I am mistaken I need to be corrected. Because I should not mislead anyone in my faith, including myself.
So if someone out there can explain this better, and show me where I have failed to understand, help me to. That is what we are here to help eachother. Again if I am going against the teaching of the RCC show me. And if I am wrong, I will admit my blindness and ask God to forgive me and move on.
So you also believe that purgatory is a fiery cleansing–hmmm–interesting.
It is talking about fallen angels AND man’s inability to repent after death. It is really quite simple and staight forward.
You had better talk to your priest about this parable. With all due respect, you seem to have a gross misunderstanding about it.
I do not see this a s grace. How do you figure this is grace? The rich man wants to prevent his brothers from making the same devastating error that he had made–but to no avail. Here is something to think about in this parable. The rich man’s sins were so grievous, that he is not even given a name! He is known as “the rich man”
Mickey, Do you understand what a parable is?
Yep.
My thinking is that mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man (CCC1855) In otherwords, with out God’s grace his heart would be so hardened he couldn’t be concerned that way. I could be wrong.
NAB footnote: The oldest Greek manuscript of Luke dating from ca. A.D. 175-225 records the name of the rich man as an abbreviated form of “Nineveh,” but there is very little textual support in other manuscripts for this reading. “Dives” of popular tradition is the Latin Vulgate’s translation for “rich man.”
Okay then, remember its not who the people Jesus is talking about that is important its what Jesus is telling us. Our lesson.
You are not clear here. I am a firm believer in continuous repentance while we are on this Earth–but I do not believe in purgatory.
There is great meaning to the fact that the rich man does not have a name. Ask your priest.
Oh the rich man has a name Mickey. I know who God is talking about. I think we all can find a little bit of the rich man in ourself. And I don’t think we have to be rich either. We can also be very Poor. And God can be talking about us.