Does the Bible actually teach that we have free will?

[Counterpoint]

Does the Bible actually teach that we have free will? If you believe that it does, then please furnishes us with evidence where it does. Also, please define “free will.”

It appears to me that Paul believes we are enslaved, not free.

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.” Romans 7:18-20

 

[CatholicSoxFan]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 10:13[/BIBLEDRB]
If God gives us the ability to resist any temptation, that means that when we give into temptation, we could have done differently, ergo we had a libertarian free choice to give in to the temptation or to not give in to the temptation.

Also:
[BIBLEDRB]Sirach 15:14[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[CatholicSoxFan]

Btw, the Romans 7 verse you used is explainable by prevenient grace; man in his fallen state cannot do good alone, God gives us prevenient grace such that we are able to do good.

 

[CatholicSoxFan]

And here’s the more-or-less standard definition of libertarian free will: An agent has libertarian free will if and only if 1) with respect to at least some of the agent’s choices, the agent could have done differently from what they did in the same circumstances, because 2) with respect to said choices, what the agent chooses to do is up to the agent.

This clearly splits the horns of the determinism/indeterminism dilemma you often bring up, in favor of self-determinism.

 

[po18guy]

Rather, show where the bible teaches that we are will-less robots, simple play toys of a frivolous God.

You might also ponder Luke 7:30

 

[SJacob7]

If we didn’t have free will, obedience would have no significance.

 

[JM3]

Does the Bible actually teach that we have free will?

Genesis 3:6 And the woman saw that the tree was good to eat, and fair to the eyes, and delightful to behold: and she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave to her husband who did eat.

 

[Counterpoint]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 10:13[/BIBLEDRB]
If God gives us the ability to resist any temptation, that means that when we give into temptation, we could have done differently, ergo we had a libertarian free choice to give in to the temptation or to not give in to the temptation.

Libertarian free will (since it is incompatible with determinism by definition) must reconcile itself with indeterminism. IOW, given the same situation and circumstances, the only explanation why we could have chosen otherwise must ultimately reduce to pure chance. How can I be held any more responsible for a choice that ultimately reduces to randomness than I can for one that was completely predetermined?

Also, the Bible clearly teaches predestination.

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Romans 8:29-30

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:” Ephesians 1:3-11

 

[dmar198]

Does the Bible actually teach that we have free will? If you believe that it does, then please furnishes us with evidence where it does. Also, please define “free will.”

It appears to me that Paul believes we are enslaved, not free.

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.” Romans 7:18-20

The doctrine of free will is one of those few doctrines of Christianity that can be confirmed by a simple word search on a Bible website. Both the terms “free will” and the contraction freewill appear in almost every major translation.

Philemon 1:14 - “I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.”

1 Corinthians 7:37 - “Nevertheless he who stands steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but has power over his own will, and has so determined in his heart…does well.”

Exodus 35:29 - “All the men and women, the people of Israel, whose heart moved them to bring anything for the work which the Lord had commanded by Moses to be done, brought it as their freewill offering to the Lord.”

More verses here: biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=freewill&qs_version=RSVCE

And here: biblehub.net/search.php?q=%22free+will%22

I define free will as the power to choose A or B under no necessity whatsoever.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Dear Lord, please deliver us from this pest. Amen.

Linus2nd

 

[Richca]

Libertarian free will (since it is incompatible with determinism by definition) must reconcile itself with indeterminism. IOW, given the same situation and circumstances, the only explanation why we could have chosen otherwise must ultimately reduce to pure chance. How can I be held any more responsible for a choice that ultimately reduces to randomness than I can for one that was completely predetermined?

Also, the Bible clearly teaches predestination.

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Romans 8:29-30

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:” Ephesians 1:3-11

Human acts are neither predetermined by God so as to exclude free will, for we can resist or not resist His grace, nor are they reducible to pure chance. A chance event is one that is not intended according to the proximate cause or causes because of some other intervening cause. A human act is one that is intentional, not unintentional which would be by chance. For human beings do things according to some reason or reasons provided by the intellect. This is not doing things unintentional or by chance.

 

[LongingSoul]

Romans 2 11-16

11 God does not love some people more than others.

12 All those who do not know the law [of God given to Moses] and did what was wrong, will die. But they will not be judged by the law. All those who know the law and did what was wrong will be judged by the law.

13 (God does not say people are good because they have heard the law. But people who obey the law will be called good people.

14 Some people do not have the law. But they do what the law says because their own hearts tell them to. They have a law of their own, even though they do not know the law.

15 They show that the law is written in their hearts. They know what is right to do and what is wrong to do. Their own thoughts tell them they have done what is wrong or what is not wrong.)

16 This will be on the day when God judges the things men have kept secret. Jesus Christ will be the judge. That is part of the good news I tell people.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

Does the Bible actually teach that we have free will? If you believe that it does, then please furnishes us with evidence where it does. Also, please define “free will.”

It appears to me that Paul believes we are enslaved, not free.

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.” Romans 7:18-20

(1) The ultimate foundation for any understanding of freedom is the first person data. Freedom of the will refers to the fact that I am aware I can choose between alternatives with the simultaneous awareness that I am not being compelled, controlled, or taken over by another agency or set of forces in making the decision. There is no other way for me to know I am free, to have an awareness of my freedom. This means that since my behavior is known by experience to be under my rational control, I am accountable and responsible for it.

The above is an anthropological or philosophical definition of the freedom that is a constituent part of human nature.

(2) When confronted with the full truth of Christian revelation about how one should conduct their life in relation to God and neighbor and the invitation by God to choose freely do so, we also realize that we are not able to do this by our own natural powers. We also are informed by revelation that He will empower us to make this choice freely as befits a man not a robot.

This is the freedom of the children of God (Rm 8:21). It is beyond our power to freely live it; but the grace of God empowers us to freely choose it.

(3) So, prior to the revelation of the gospel we were both ignorant of its demands and powerless to live by them, consequently we were not free to live by them–we did not enjoy the freedom of the children of God. But we did enjoy natural freedom as defined above (1).

St. Paul also says in words that address a free agent:
“work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.” [Phil 2:12-13]

And

“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.” (2 Cor 3:17)

He calls us, as children of God, free.
“For freedom Christ set us free.” (Gal 5:1) “For you were called for freedom, brothers.” (Gal 5:13)

“you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (Jn 8:32) “So if a son frees you, then you will truly be free.” (Jn 8:36)

(4) In addition to direct NT statements above about our freedom, I would draw attention to the fact of exhortations. Exhortations are aimed at convincing free agents to choose a particular course of action, in this case it is for free agents to choose to respond to gospel demands empowered by the grace of God.

Jesus said, “Repent and believe in the Gospel.” (Mk 1:15) How can one repent of sin without at the same time intending not to sin again? The apostles likewise preached repentance (and baptism) for the forgiveness of sins (AA 2:37-38). When the young rich man approached Jesus and asked, “What must I do to inherit/gain eternal life?” How does Jesus answer? “If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Mt 19:16-19 // Mk 10:17-19; Lk 18:18-20)

Mt 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

Mt 7:24-27
The one who hears my words and puts them into practice (does them / acts on them) is the one who built his house on rock. See also Lk 8:21.

Mt 16:27
The Son of Man will “reward every man according to his works.”
Mt 19:16-19 // Mk 10:17-19; Lk 18:18-20

Lk 10:25-28
Lawyer: “What shall I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus: “What is written in the law?” Lawyer: Love God and neighbor. Jesus: You have answered right; do this and you will live.” To illustrate love of neighbor Jesus tells the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

Lk 16:19-31
Rich man condemned for ignoring Lazarus.

Jn 5:28-29
Those who have “done good deeds” will rise to life; those who have done “wicked deeds” will rise to condemnation.

1 Cor 6:8-10
Corinthians, who are already believers, are warned: no slanderers, robbers, etc. will enter the kingdom of God. * e.g. vv 8-9 believers inflict injustice on believers (“brothers”), but the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God.

2 Cor 5:10
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.”

Gal 5:16-21
The Galatians, who are already believers, are warned: if you do {x, y, z, etc.}, you will not enter the kingdom of God.

1 Tim 4:16
“Attend to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in both tasks, for by doing so you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.”

Heb 3:12
“Brothers” can forsake the living God. (see also 2:1; 13:7)

Jas 1:12
“Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life.”

Jas 5:19-20
One of the “brothers” [someone who already believes] may stray. His soul is saved from “death”, if he is brought back from sin. (see 1:15; 4:17). See Ezk 3:21.

1 Jn 5:16-17
“There is such a thing as a deadly ‘mortal’ in RSV] sin.” [a “brother” (=believer) is not exempt].*

 

[CatholicSoxFan]

Libertarian free will (since it is incompatible with determinism by definition) must reconcile itself with indeterminism. IOW, given the same situation and circumstances, the only explanation why we could have chosen otherwise must ultimately reduce to pure chance. How can I be held any more responsible for a choice that ultimately reduces to randomness than I can for one that was completely predetermined?

You are ignoring the possibility of self-determinism. Do you need it said in another language or something???

Also, the Bible clearly teaches predestination.

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Romans 8:29-30

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:” Ephesians 1:3-11

I am a Molinist. So I would interpret these passages as God weakly actualizi g a state of affairs, in this case a state of affairs where we come to Christ, by putting us in a situation where we would freely come to Him.

 

[dmar198]

I am a Molinist. So I would interpret these passages as God weakly actualizi g a state of affairs, in this case a state of affairs where we come to Christ, by putting us in a situation where we would freely come to Him.

Also, you don’t have to be a molinist to reconcile free will with predestination. Catholic doctrine holds that God takes people’s free choices into account when He predestines people, so there is no possible contradiction when the Catholic worldview is presupposed.

The Bible also supports the Catholic view of this because Acts 4:28 says the Crucifixion was predestined, but that required the free choice of the Romans and Jews to crucify Him.

 

[Counterpoint]

Dear Lord, please deliver us from this pest. Amen.

“But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” Matthew 5:22

 

[CatholicSoxFan]

“But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” Matthew 5:22

Can you please show us where you got your flowchart? I’m sorry, but the fact that you’ve been making so many threads about the same topic and you’ve been using the same arguments no matter how many times we correct you on them, as well as the fact that 90% of your posts are quotes, screams out “cut and paste” to me…

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

Libertarian free will (since it is incompatible with determinism by definition) must reconcile itself with indeterminism. IOW, given the same situation and circumstances, the only explanation why we could have chosen otherwise must ultimately reduce to pure chance. How can I be held any more responsible for a choice that ultimately reduces to randomness than I can for one that was completely predetermined?

Also, the Bible clearly teaches predestination.

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Romans 8:29-30

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:” Ephesians 1:3-11

The Greek word proorizo means to predetermine, decide beforehand. It is used a total of 6 times in the NT (Acts 4:27; Rm 8:29, 30; 1 Cor 2:7; Eph 1: 5, 11), 4 times (Rm, Eph) with reference to salvation of people. In all 4 cases it refers to groups, not an individual.

eklégomai - to choose, elect
The theme of election in the NT grows out of the OT theme the election of Israel as the people of God. It rarely refers to individuals (the exception being some kings), not even prophets.

Further “Nowhere in the NT is eklégomai explicitly contrasted with reprobation. . . . The reference is not to the foreordination of two classes, the one to blessedness, the other to perdition. . . . It is unfortunate that the concept of election has been linked with the predestinarian controversy.”
[Gerhard Kittle, ed., *Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, 10 vols. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Wm R. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1968), vol. IV, p. 175.]

Marcus Barth, son of Karl Barth, in his Anchor Bible Commentary on Ephesians (I:105-9) utterly rejects the idea that Eph 1 is “an invitation to a fatalistic scheme of double predestination or any other deterministic plan.” (109) And again he repeats that election in Christ is between God and His people, not between God and individuals. (70, 108)

Even the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry web site, which is not loath to being anti-Catholic (that would be an example of understatement), acknowledges that there are (in its mind) legitimate differences on the theme of predestination and election among Protestants. The page can be found here.

The Bible does not clearly teach predestination understood as fatalistic predetermination of an individual’s eternal destiny.

 

[CatholicSoxFan]

The Greek word proorizo means to predetermine, decide beforehand. It is used a total of 6 times in the NT (Acts 4:27; Rm 8:29, 30; 1 Cor 2:7; Eph 1: 5, 11), 4 times (Rm, Eph) with reference to salvation of people. In all 4 cases it refers to groups, not an individual.

eklégomai - to choose, elect
The theme of election in the NT grows out of the OT theme the election of Israel as the people of God. It rarely refers to individuals (the exception being some kings), not even prophets.

Further “Nowhere in the NT is eklégomai explicitly contrasted with reprobation. . . . The reference is not to the foreordination of two classes, the one to blessedness, the other to perdition. . . . It is unfortunate that the concept of election has been linked with the predestinarian controversy.”
[Gerhard Kittle, ed., *Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

, 10 vols. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Wm R. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1968), vol. IV, p. 175.]

Marcus Barth, son of Karl Barth, in his Anchor Bible Commentary on Ephesians (I:105-9) utterly rejects the idea that Eph 1 is “an invitation to a fatalistic scheme of double predestination or any other deterministic plan.” (109) And again he repeats that election in Christ is between God and His people, not between God and individuals. (70, 108)

The Bible does not clearly teach predestination.
Yeah, even though I’m a molinist, I think the Arminian interpretation of Eph 1 is on to something; the only Calvinist objection to it that I know of is that the object of the predestination is people, but can’t the body of Christ refer to people?

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

Yeah, even though I’m a molinist, I think the Arminian interpretation of Eph 1 is on to something; the only Calvinist objection to it that I know of is that the object of the predestination is people, but can’t the body of Christ refer to people?

The point that Barth makes is that predestination and election refer to the church, to a group; not to an individual. “The body of Christ” refers to a group and as a whole, not an individual or the sum of atomized individuals.