Does the Catholic Church accept Mormons as your brother and sisters in Christ?

[2nd_Adam]

In CAF, there is no pre-requisite of having “the Spirit of Truth” to participate in any thread.

Of course Z can participate on the sufficiency of Christ thread. Who am I to imply such a thing? I don’t think I stated that he couldn’t. I just chose to ignore him which is something we all can do with anyone on CA. I’m just saying that his postings need to be understood within the context of being outside of the family of God in Christ. Z is a grounded Mormon and I believe also an ex-Mormon missionary who knows exactly what he is doing here on Catholic Answers. He has a clear Mormon agenda.

Do you guys understand that Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants are part of apostate Christianity and Mormons are trying to rescue us from the great apostasy through the restoration of the One True Church of Mormonism?

 

[dianaiad]

Don’t get me wrong, I think I’d rather have a Mormon living next door to me than a family without faith, but that doesn’t mean I approve of their faith or include them in the Christian family.

Their church does quite a bit to help people and you’ll hardly ever see a Mormon on welfare. Some other faith’s could borrow some plays from their playbook. They can do these things because of their extensive tithing requirement (or else you can’t receive the benefits of the temple), their investments, the expectation that no one at a local ward will get paid a salary, and that the missionaries do their work gratis and live from their savings. This means a huge amount of money is being funnelled into Salt Lake City for them to disperse however they see fit.

But Jesus fed the 5000 with 5 loaves and 2 fish (and continues to feed us with them).

Actually, tithing funds do NOT go to the welfare system. Tithing funds are used to build churches and Temples, run the church and support missionary efforts. The church welfare system is suppored through entirely different donations, in addition to tithing.

I think that, though, in a way tithing supports the welfare system, because of course none of the local congregations have to worry about paying mortgages (all our buildings are completely paid for) or (as you mentioned) salaries, or building maintanaince, upkeep or teaching supplies. All the welfare funds go…to welfare needs. That does help.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Actually, tithing funds do NOT go to the welfare system. Tithing funds are used to build churches and Temples, run the church and support missionary efforts. The church welfare system is suppored through entirely different donations, in addition to tithing.

I think that, though, in a way tithing supports the welfare system, because of course none of the local congregations have to worry about paying mortgages (all our buildings are completely paid for) or (as you mentioned) salaries, or building maintanaince, upkeep or teaching supplies. All the welfare funds go…to welfare needs. That does help.

Do you agree with this general statement as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints according to official Mormon theology?

Do you guys understand that Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants are part of apostate Christianity and Mormons are trying to rescue us from the great apostasy through the restoration of the One True Church of Mormonism?

---

 

[dianaiad]

Xavierlives;5947430:

Don’t get me wrong, I think I’d rather have a Mormon living next door to me than a family without faith, but that doesn’t mean I approve of their faith or include them in the Christian family.

Their church does quite a bit to help people and you’ll hardly ever see a Mormon on welfare.

QUOTE]



what the heck does that have to do with ANYTHING??? I’m on welfare thank you…

It has nothing at all to do with anything except a simple statement of fact. Mormons have more aid available to them to keep them from having to go on government welfare. It’s not always enough, but it is our culture. We are advised to have a year’s supply of food, and the church welfare system is very efficient and pretty comprehensive. It doesn’t keep EVERYBODY off of government welfare, but there are fewer of us who end up needing it.

 

[dianaiad]

oh well thats really freakn smart…deny something because you dont understand it…

and wasnt it recorded in all kinds of historical documents? that many people witnessed the crucification??

Not really, no. Almost all witness statements to the crucifixion are found in the bible.

oh man now I got a whole nuther thread to post!!! dratz…I’m never gonna have a life outside CAF! lol…

 

[Xavierlives]

Yep. We baptise EVERYBODY. Well, everybody who wants to, that is.

So is there a “no call list?”

I’m sorry about that. We can be cliquish. We come by it honestly…it is a direct result of being, well…shot at and stuff…but it is unfortunate.

How often are Mormons shot at and stuff? Or is this a reference to the 1844 shooting?

But think about it for a second; wouldn’t you be wary of people whose first response to you is “oh, YOU aren’t Christians, and HERE’S a pamphlet telling you all about how you are going to hell,?” It’s a bit much to expect mere humans to take that sort of history and be all THAT open. We SHOULD be, but, well…we are only human.

As in, you would rather them discuss it face-to-face with you instead of being impersonal?

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Of course Z can participate on the sufficiency of Christ thread. Who am I to imply such a thing? I don’t think I stated that he couldn’t. I just chose to ignore him which is something we all can do with anyone on CA. I’m just saying that his postings need to be understood within the context of being outside of the family of God in Christ. Z is a grounded Mormon and I believe also an ex-Mormon missionary who knows exactly what he is doing here on Catholic Answers. He has a clear Mormon agenda.

Do you guys understand that Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants are part of apostate Christianity and Mormons are trying to rescue us from the great apostasy through the restoration of the One True Church of Mormonism?

In thread, he quoted Scripture passages in which he states “Christ died for all” as well as his own Mormon books. Do you know what is in his heart?

 

[2nd_Adam]

It’s time to grow up Catholic siblings in Christ!

mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-beliefs/the-restoration-of-truth/the-restoration-of-truth

 

[Xavierlives]

Actually, tithing funds do NOT go to the welfare system. Tithing funds are used to build churches and Temples, run the church and support missionary efforts. The church welfare system is suppored through entirely different donations, in addition to tithing.

I think that, though, in a way tithing supports the welfare system, because of course none of the local congregations have to worry about paying mortgages (all our buildings are completely paid for) or (as you mentioned) salaries, or building maintanaince, upkeep or teaching supplies. All the welfare funds go…to welfare needs. That does help.

I’m not Mormon, so I do not know of the innner workings of the financial network.

 

[dianaiad]

which is why UTAH has historically led the nation in bankruptcies.

…such as the land the LDS Church owns in Missouri, for which it receives a sizeable amount of money for operating a questionable Drainage District and for which it receives rent from Station Casino in Kansas City, North, Missouri.

…which means that they are part-time ministers who must split time between their jobs, families and ministries. As a son of a fomer lay-minister, I can tell you that it doesn’t work. Something suffers. Also, lay-ministers tend to be untrained in psychology and counseling, which makes for very poor ministers. It proves the adage that you get what you pay for.

.

…which means that the missionaries pay for the privilege of drumming up more business for the LDS Church. Actually, the missionaries don’t live off of their savings. The Church puts them on an extremely inadequate food allowance that amounts to starvation wages.

…which very often involves real estate speculation and shopping center development.

---

I would be very disapointed if the Catholic Church ever borrowed from the LDS Church’s playbook.

Wow. Here’s a question; would you care to share with us what’s “questionable” about the 'drainage district" in Missouri…and exactly what the church involvement in it is, and what’s wrong with real estate investment (‘speculation’ is a word most used, I"ve noticed, by those who didn’t get in on it in time) and shopping center development?

As to your other snarky comments…well, Actually, in 2009 so far, Utah’s bankruptcy filing rate was 5.22 per thousand, compared to California’s rate of 5.44 per thousand…Tennesee at 8.72, Nevada at 11.24…True, Utah comes in at #14 for per capita filings for this last year, but even so, , I think we can lay the 'Mormons are evil people who declare bankruptcy more than anybody else in the whole wide world" thing to rest, don’t you?

One last thing: if the missionaries are put on 'starvation wages" (I WAS one of those, y’know, missionaries, that is.) How come they all GAIN WEIGHT?

Ok, perhaps that’s facetious…but the thing is, the missionaries manage just fine. And you…need to get a grip.

 

[dianaiad]

So is there a “no call list?”

To be honest, I don’t see how one could actually put one of those together, or enforce it.

How often are Mormons shot at and stuff? Or is this a reference to the 1844 shooting?

It used to happen quite frequently, Xavier…my grandfather was. Come to think of it, I wasn’t ever SHOT at, but I’ve had rocks thrown at me. I’ve had cousins who were shot at, though. The thing is, this entire group of people were thrown rather violently out of a nation, and gathered together in a place they thought was far enough away from persecution so that they could live their lives freely and according to their faiths.

Then the nation that tossed them out sent an army after them. This sort of thing leaves marks; stories are told, attitudes are formed…as I said, my grandfather had some pretty amazing tales to tell of his childhood. (he was the youngest son of a second wife–who had to hide in the Idaho hills when the feds arrested her husband.) Utahns lived this. We finally became a state, and when we elect a senator to represent us, the congress refuses to let him take office for FOUR YEARS.

Now me, I spend my childhood safely in the middle of Mormon culture, and then when I’m fourteen, I get dropped into California hugeness…with all the variety and all the…you name it…one can find. I spend my high school years being told that because I am a Mormon that I have horns, am going to hell, am not worthy of friendship or even membership in a study group…one young lady told all the young men of her aquaintance that because I was a Mormon that I had to have sex with any man that asked for it. This was back in the early sixties, mind you. As a result of her shenanigans, the 15 Mormons in that 5000 member student body could not date, attend any school functions, or even walk alone in the hallways. Ever.

Now THAT got better, of course…but not before I graduated…and not enough so that my own daughter could walk into a Christian bookstore without being physically shoved out of it.

So, yeah, it happens a lot more often than you want to admit, Xavier…at least the ‘and stuff…’ part that tends to keep us wary and cliqueish.

You are, after all, only paranoid if they AREN’T out to get you.

As in, you would rather them discuss it face-to-face with you instead of being impersonal?

As in…I would rather they not publish that sort of assininity at all…and yes, ask Mormons directly, rather than pull sneak attacks on strawmen.

 

[dianaiad]

I’m not Mormon, so I do not know of the innner workings of the financial network.

Which is why I posted a clarification, Xavier.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I’m not following your thoughts. In John 3, Scripture reveals that all are already condemned. God sent His Son to rescue sinners from their already condemned condition. Therefore, sinners are under the wrath of God, condemned for their sins and heading to Hell before they ever hear the good news of God proclaimed to them. Jesus Christ and Him crucified for sinners to bring them to God as their Heavenly Father by adoption through propitation is the great good news of God and not condemning bad news! It seems that you believe sinners are saved apart from Jesus Christ. If that’s true, Christ died in vain. The gospel in a nutshell is adoption through propitiation or 2 Cor 5:21.

You can’t just ignore these verses:

Luke 12
47 “And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. 48 But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.

1 Tim 4
10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

 

[bookgirl32]

Of course Z can participate on the sufficiency of Christ thread. Who am I to imply such a thing? I don’t think I stated that he couldn’t. I just chose to ignore him which is something we all can do with anyone on CA. I’m just saying that his postings need to be understood within the context of being outside of the family of God in Christ.

And your postings need to be understood within the context that you are a follower of Calvin and reject much, much, of Catholic teaching, which is the truth, as opposed to Calvinism.

Do you get her point? We could use your own standards to choose to ignore you.

 

[2nd_Adam]

And your postings need to be understood within the context that you are a follower of Calvin and reject much, much, of Catholic teaching, which is the truth, as opposed to Calvinism.

Do you get her point? We could use your own standards to choose to ignore you.

I’m not a follow of Calvin… I am a follower of Jesus Christ in an imperfect way.

 

[2nd_Adam]

You can’t just ignore these verses:

Luke 12
47 “And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. 48 But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.

1 Tim 4
10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Of course not, they are wonder passages!

 

[bookgirl32]

I’m not a follow of Calvin… I am a follower of Jesus Christ in an imperfect way.

Okay, change that to:

And your postings need to be understood within the context that you reject Catholic teaching.

Same concept. We could disregard you b/c you believe something dramatically different about salvation.

 

[Akini]

I think before such a question can be answered, it’s perhaps necessary to differentiate or compare how Catholics and Mormons (LDS) administer the Sacrament of Baptism. According to the traditional Catholic Church doctrine, four requirements must be met for a baptism to be considered validly administered. These include; (1) the matter, (2) the form, (3) the intention of the person who is to administer baptism, and (4) the right disposition of the recipient.

With respect to the #1 requirement, Catholics (& Protestants) agree on this. All use water (whether by sprinkling or immersion). With #2, although the Mormons use the Trinitarian formula, their invocation of the Blessed Trinity is in divergence to that of the Catholic Church. This is because the LDS believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three gods who formed one divinity and that they exist in perfect harmony. The Catholics believe that the father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three persons in which subsists the one GODHEAD, simply, 3 persons in One God. .LDS also believe that God the Father is married and their first born is Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit is a son of heavenly parents. Thus, in this sense the Trinitarian formula used in baptism by LDS is done with a wrong purpose.

As with regards to #3, LDS believe that baptism was instituted by God and Not by Christ. Catholics believe baptism was instituted by Christ. According to the Catholic Church, Baptism cancels both personal sins and original sin, hence the necessity of baptizing infants. The LDS do not accept the remission of original sin, there the LDS baptizer’s intention to baptize a person is based on what LDS does and Not on what Christ said.

Finally, in relation to #4, because the person who is baptised already has the use of reason and has been already instructed according to LDS teachings & faith, it would be necessary to say that the baptism recieved by that person is nothing different from what he was taught.

From all these, I can say that as human beings we can consider Mormons as bros & sis., but definitely Not Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

 

[benidict]

I thought I’d budge in here and speak about the situation which borne this thread. Other posters questioned 2nd Adam, whom was saying that because Z (my nickname for zerius) is a Mormon he cannot participate in his thread because he is not a Christian as well calling Z to repent his Mormon beliefs and receive the gospel. Z had not only been quoting Sacred Scripture but the D and C as well against 2ndAdam’s posts. The other Catholic posters and I were calling 2nd Adam to charity (and answer our relevant questions as well) and benedict inquired about the Book of Mormon to better understand them and said something about accept him as a brother in Christ. Hence this thread is borne.

For my part, I was exhorting 2nd to Christian charity by treating Z with a dignity of a human person and let his voice be heard, even if it is another faith. CAF is not a forum that excludes other faiths but welcomes all even those that do not have faith.

I’m edified that benedict’s mistake has been corrected through this thread but I don’t appreciate our comments castigated when 2ndAdam still hasn’t answered the questions (see post #2 or #220) from his own thread.

If I have erred, then I say mea culpa, mea culpa…

thank you thank you thank you dancelittleewok! much appreciated. and if anyone cares to read the post i gave earlier in this thread, they will see that i do not believe mormonism is true, or that the book of mormon is true, my only statement that got this thread going was that i believe there are individual mormons in the lds church that can be and are brothers and sisters in Christ. i never claimed the mormon church as a whole. but yes i do appreciate mormon posters who can rightly divide their book so i can understand it and them better and see where they are coming from, instead of reading it and taking it out of context. i also study the koran, the teachings of buddha, and the Jewish translations of the ot. have also had bible studies with rabbis. im sorry if i just cant shout heratic louder than the next guy.lol! love in Christ. God bless you and yours.:grouphug:

 

[benidict]

I’m not a follow of Calvin… I am a follower of Jesus Christ in an imperfect way.

tell me another one before that gets cold! lol! i believe you are a follower of Jesus 2nd. but you view him through the teachings of calvinism. therefore you are a follower of calvin. when are you coming to hawaii? got the palm tree reserved…God bless you and yours.