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kkollwitz
Guest
Good grief, I’ve been teaching Catholicism straight out of the Bible to both adults and kids since 1999. It’s not hard, and the Scriptures are soaked in the Catholic worldview. I believe that’s why so many non-Catholics who study the Bible become Catholic.
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IanGE
Guest
IanGE;9451679:
I’m sorry too: where in the Bible does it say that only bishops are the apostles’ successors? “The Church” (ekklesian, in Jesus’ words) is ALL of us, including priests who seem to have set themselves apart and above.
I always thought the apostles were in the upper room when the Holy Spirit came upon them. But checking just now Acts 2:1 reads “…they were ALL together in one place.” , ALL being probably defined in Acts 1:13 -15. about 120 believers, the eleven apostles along with "the women and Mary, the mother of Jesus and His brothers.
Paul was not there, yet his teaching dominates the early church. And it should be noted that he was not flavour of the month with the elders in Jerusalem.
in positions of authority and charged with certain tasks that come along with it? Or do you think all are indifferently called to the same tasks in the Church, to serve as the individual pleases? Are you charged with deciding definitive scripture interpretation or is the Magisterium?
Without obedience by all, including bishops, the Church is meaningless. Christ Himself is the model for us, serving in humble obedience… the King of all creation, serving all creation in the task His Father gives Him.
Another one juggling with etymology!. Recently, the Lord has been silent to me; I asked, “Speak, Lord, your SERVANT is listening.” Immediately He said, “you are not my servant, Ian, you are my SON!” We are ALL SONS of the Father but I suppose some consider themselves more equal than others. In 1 Corinthians12, Paul lists the Spiritual gifts. . Verse 27: "Now, YOU are the body of Christ and each one of you is part of it. In verse 28 he lists “those with gifts of administration” as second last, just above “speakers in tongues.” I recognise that we need chairmen and administrators, but these are gifts of the Holy Spirit, who is a great leveller and, if left to organise and teach, does the job magnificently. The first “priests” were married, working men who volunteered to organise Christian meetings. In fact the congregation used to draw lots at meetings to determine who chaired, who read the Scripture, who gave a homily, who conducted the Eucharist. An early bishop (Irenius?) was scandalised because women could be drawn by lot to teach or even conduct the Eucharist.
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clem456
Guest
clem456;9452159:
. In verse 28 he lists “those with gifts of administration” as second last, just above “speakers in tongues.” I recognise that we need chairmen and administrators, but these are gifts of the Holy Spirit, who is a great leveller and, if left to organise and teach, does the job magnificently. The first “priests” were married, working men who volunteered to organise Christian meetings. In fact the congregation used to draw lots at meetings to determine who chaired, who read the Scripture, who gave a homily, who conducted the Eucharist. An early bishop (Irenius?) was scandalised because women could be drawn by lot to teach or even conduct the Eucharist.IanGE;9451679:
I’m sorry too: where in the Bible does it say that only bishops are the apostles’ successors? “The Church” (ekklesian, in Jesus’ words) is ALL of us, including priests who seem to have set themselves apart and above.
I always thought the apostles were in the upper room when the Holy Spirit came upon them. But checking just now Acts 2:1 reads “…they were ALL together in one place.” , ALL being probably defined in Acts 1:13 -15. about 120 believers, the eleven apostles along with "the women and Mary, the mother of Jesus and His brothers.
Paul was not there, yet his teaching dominates the early church. And it should be noted that he was not flavour of the month with the elders in Jerusalem.
Another one juggling with etymology!
Your scripture quotes disagree with the thrust of your initial post.
Being a leader is not a matter of dominance, the gifts of the Spirit are not list in some sort of pecking order. Bishops consider themselves servants. They are however, given responsibilities that you and I are to appreciate and obey. You seem to think that makes laity lesser humans??? That is not Church teaching. We simply have different gifts and responsibilities, we are not a mish mash of self proclaimed gifts. Some are leaders, some are followers (and are leaders in their own vocations). There is no Church without obedience. And obedience is not slavery, it is “ob-audiere”: to listen.
T
THEYEHOVAH
Guest
Let me answer a few combined, here. You seem to be confused, admittedly. Perhaps this will help…
There is no argument that bishops are put in place physically by those set in authority over them by the fleshly hierarchy descended from the apostle or apostles Named before the death of Jesus. As one writer predictably countered: Paul was also in the PICTURE. He was separate–after the RESURRECTION. While he heard the PREACHING OF STEPHEN–a deacon–and was unconverted, A PERSONAL ENCOUNTER WITH THE LORD took care of that. By his own declaration, HE PREACHING IMMEDIATELY DID NOT CONFER WITH THE APOSTLES. Was he amongst Christians? He was led and received his sight from one. DID HE RECEIVE HIS DOCTRINE FROM THE APOSTLES? No. HE RECEIVED HIS DOCTRINE FROM THE LORD. IT MATCHED THAT OF THE APOSTLES. He also knew when they were acting wrong and corrected one said to be a PILLAR AMONG THREE in the church: PETER…
Was he later “ordained” BY THE APOSTLES to go out by their authority? YES. Did he WAIT or was HIS AUTHORITY AS AN APOSTLE FROM THEM? NO. His authority as an apostle was FROM THE LORD. Are PROPHETS “ordained” BY THE BISHOP? EVANGELISTS? APOSTLES? TEACHERS? PASTORS? The apostle says THESE ARE GIVEN BY THE LORD. You might say that these were and are through the bishops: where is there a prophet “ordained” to be a prophet? Timothy Received Laying On Of Hands and Prophecy of his Gift–he is told to do the work of an evangelist. PAUL RECEIVED HIS APOSTLESHIP FROM THE LORD. DIRECT. How does THE LORD DESCRIBE IT:
Jeremiah 3: 15And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
THE LORD is speaking HERE. HE will give pastors, and THIS AGREES WITH NEW TESTAMENT–AND SACRED TRADITION WILL AGREE ALWAYS WITH THE BIBLE:
EPHESIANS 4:11 [Webster’s Bible Translation]
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
THIS IS SPOKEN OF THE LORD.
HE.
Those called ARE servants. PASTORS are called BY THE LORD. If they are NOT then the bishops are OUT OF LINE and a person is walking outside of his ordination FROM THE LORD.
JOHN 15:16, Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. [King James Version]
These PEOPLE ARE SERVANTS, CORRECT. NOT is the baptism of the Holy Spirit “exclusive” and a source of knowledge FOR FEW; THIS is the provider of the oil: THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. THE HOLY SPIRIT. THAT BAPTISM AFTER BAPTISM OR BEFORE BAPTISM BY WATER. ONE OF THE BASIC BAPTISMS WITH AN “S.” There is ONE baptism for salvation. HE will baptize you WITH THE SPIRIT AND WITH FIRE.
I am NOT saying that some are dependent on others: I am saying that WE OUGHT NOT BE. WE ARE TO DEPEND ON GOD AND BE TAUGHT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT SO AS TO BE ABLE TO TEACH OTHERS–and that is NOT the “teaching gift/office” OF WHICH I SPEAK. It is the role of EVERY BELIEVER.
Do we sit in a pew–“THE PREACHER” TELL US WE SHOULD BE SPREADING OUR FAITH AND FEEL HELPLESS? I GUESS SO. Jesus said to WAIT until we are “clothed with power from on high”… UNTIL THEN: be ready to give an answer to those who ask and be living in the light of the love of Christ Jesus. If you do NOT know whether you have received baptism of the Holy Spirit THEN–YOU HAVE NOT… YOU KNOW IT. Meanwhile–we are to be helping THOSE WHO DO NOT. THE PROBLEM? Those who do not have no clue about it and do not recognize those who are in the Spirit because they do not have the Spirit which–“deep calls unto deep”–RECOGNIZES THE SPIRIT. So YOU POOH-POOH IT! KNOW THAT IT IS REAL. IT IS NOT TIME PAST.
If YOU TELL ME WHO ENSURES THE INFALLIBILITY OF THE POPE WHEN HE SPEAKS EX CATHEDRA: I WILL TELL BY WHAT AUTHORITY COME THESE ASSERTIONS. <3+WENDY
Your scripture quotes disagree with the thrust of your initial post.
Being a leader is not a matter of dominance, the gifts of the Spirit are not list in some sort of pecking order. Bishops consider themselves servants. They are however, given responsibilities that you and I are to appreciate and obey. You seem to think that makes laity lesser humans??? That is not Church teaching. We simply have different gifts and responsibilities, we are not a mish mash of self proclaimed gifts. Some are leaders, some are followers (and are leaders in their own vocations). There is no Church without obedience. And obedience is not slavery, it is “ob-audiere”: to listen.
There is no argument that bishops are put in place physically by those set in authority over them by the fleshly hierarchy descended from the apostle or apostles Named before the death of Jesus. As one writer predictably countered: Paul was also in the PICTURE. He was separate–after the RESURRECTION. While he heard the PREACHING OF STEPHEN–a deacon–and was unconverted, A PERSONAL ENCOUNTER WITH THE LORD took care of that. By his own declaration, HE PREACHING IMMEDIATELY DID NOT CONFER WITH THE APOSTLES. Was he amongst Christians? He was led and received his sight from one. DID HE RECEIVE HIS DOCTRINE FROM THE APOSTLES? No. HE RECEIVED HIS DOCTRINE FROM THE LORD. IT MATCHED THAT OF THE APOSTLES. He also knew when they were acting wrong and corrected one said to be a PILLAR AMONG THREE in the church: PETER…
Was he later “ordained” BY THE APOSTLES to go out by their authority? YES. Did he WAIT or was HIS AUTHORITY AS AN APOSTLE FROM THEM? NO. His authority as an apostle was FROM THE LORD. Are PROPHETS “ordained” BY THE BISHOP? EVANGELISTS? APOSTLES? TEACHERS? PASTORS? The apostle says THESE ARE GIVEN BY THE LORD. You might say that these were and are through the bishops: where is there a prophet “ordained” to be a prophet? Timothy Received Laying On Of Hands and Prophecy of his Gift–he is told to do the work of an evangelist. PAUL RECEIVED HIS APOSTLESHIP FROM THE LORD. DIRECT. How does THE LORD DESCRIBE IT:
Jeremiah 3: 15And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
THE LORD is speaking HERE. HE will give pastors, and THIS AGREES WITH NEW TESTAMENT–AND SACRED TRADITION WILL AGREE ALWAYS WITH THE BIBLE:
EPHESIANS 4:11 [Webster’s Bible Translation]
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
THIS IS SPOKEN OF THE LORD.
HE.
Those called ARE servants. PASTORS are called BY THE LORD. If they are NOT then the bishops are OUT OF LINE and a person is walking outside of his ordination FROM THE LORD.
JOHN 15:16, Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. [King James Version]
These PEOPLE ARE SERVANTS, CORRECT. NOT is the baptism of the Holy Spirit “exclusive” and a source of knowledge FOR FEW; THIS is the provider of the oil: THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. THE HOLY SPIRIT. THAT BAPTISM AFTER BAPTISM OR BEFORE BAPTISM BY WATER. ONE OF THE BASIC BAPTISMS WITH AN “S.” There is ONE baptism for salvation. HE will baptize you WITH THE SPIRIT AND WITH FIRE.
I am NOT saying that some are dependent on others: I am saying that WE OUGHT NOT BE. WE ARE TO DEPEND ON GOD AND BE TAUGHT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT SO AS TO BE ABLE TO TEACH OTHERS–and that is NOT the “teaching gift/office” OF WHICH I SPEAK. It is the role of EVERY BELIEVER.
Do we sit in a pew–“THE PREACHER” TELL US WE SHOULD BE SPREADING OUR FAITH AND FEEL HELPLESS? I GUESS SO. Jesus said to WAIT until we are “clothed with power from on high”… UNTIL THEN: be ready to give an answer to those who ask and be living in the light of the love of Christ Jesus. If you do NOT know whether you have received baptism of the Holy Spirit THEN–YOU HAVE NOT… YOU KNOW IT. Meanwhile–we are to be helping THOSE WHO DO NOT. THE PROBLEM? Those who do not have no clue about it and do not recognize those who are in the Spirit because they do not have the Spirit which–“deep calls unto deep”–RECOGNIZES THE SPIRIT. So YOU POOH-POOH IT! KNOW THAT IT IS REAL. IT IS NOT TIME PAST.
If YOU TELL ME WHO ENSURES THE INFALLIBILITY OF THE POPE WHEN HE SPEAKS EX CATHEDRA: I WILL TELL BY WHAT AUTHORITY COME THESE ASSERTIONS. <3+WENDY
Your scripture quotes disagree with the thrust of your initial post.
Being a leader is not a matter of dominance, the gifts of the Spirit are not list in some sort of pecking order. Bishops consider themselves servants. They are however, given responsibilities that you and I are to appreciate and obey. You seem to think that makes laity lesser humans??? That is not Church teaching. We simply have different gifts and responsibilities, we are not a mish mash of self proclaimed gifts. Some are leaders, some are followers (and are leaders in their own vocations). There is no Church without obedience. And obedience is not slavery, it is “ob-audiere”: to listen.
Respectfully, you miss the point of the passage completely, this passage does not apply to this topic without some huge leaps. I would suggest a good bible with solid interpretation, if you are williing.
You seem to have the view that some people have the key to knowledge of God, while others are dependent on them, yet you say do not depend on others… You seem to contradict yourself.
Who ordains (if I may borrow a phrase) certain people as providers of the knowledge of God and His Word? On what or whose authority do you base your assertions? Or is it you that decides this in a vacuum?
S
Southwell
Guest
Reality Check!!! I’m a convert - I grew up in Methodist and Presbyterian Sunday Schoole and we didn’t read a lot of scripture either just flannel board Bible Stories with a moral lesson - then we memorized a short catechism, the 23rd/22nd Psalm, and the Lord’s Prayer and were confirmed.
You have to remember; we have three wheels; Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterium - a tricycle is very stable but Protestants; especially those who hold to sola scriptura, run on just one wheel - a unicycle is very unstable, the rider has to know his unicycle intimately and is always trying to maintain his balance!!! So sit back on your tryke and envoy the ride!
Besides we read the entire Bible every three years a Mass - how many Protestants have read the entire bible even once? Trust me, not many. I know 'cause I was one!!!
There’s an old protestant joke: after searching his Bible for hours, a pastor throws up his hands in frustration and tells his inquirer, a teenage girl, “There’s nothing in Leviticus about contact lenses”
You have to remember; we have three wheels; Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterium - a tricycle is very stable but Protestants; especially those who hold to sola scriptura, run on just one wheel - a unicycle is very unstable, the rider has to know his unicycle intimately and is always trying to maintain his balance!!! So sit back on your tryke and envoy the ride!
Besides we read the entire Bible every three years a Mass - how many Protestants have read the entire bible even once? Trust me, not many. I know 'cause I was one!!!
There’s an old protestant joke: after searching his Bible for hours, a pastor throws up his hands in frustration and tells his inquirer, a teenage girl, “There’s nothing in Leviticus about contact lenses”
P
ProVobis
Guest
Look for the next translation.
T
THEYEHOVAH
Guest
THE LORD IS TELLING ME TO REPLY TO THIS; APPARENTLY I HAVE BEEN GIVEN ANOTHER CHANCE DESPITE THE LACK OF ROOM AND MY PREVIOUSLY LENGTHY TRY TRUNCATED BY THE PROGRAM–I WILL DIVIDE INTO HALVES, LORD WILLING!
THE ELEVEN WERE NOT THE O NLY ONES THERE: READ LUKE; THE TRAVELERS TO EMMAUS “joined the eleven” and “those with them”! MATTHEW AND MARK MENTION ONLY THE ELEVEN! THE LORD MUST LEAD TO READ IT ALL! DO NOT STOP SHORT.
ALL WERE GIVEN THE MANDATE TO PREACH WHO WERE THERE WITH THE ELEVEN AND THEY ALL WERE TO WAIT TO BE ENDUED WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH! THOSE THERE ENDUED AT PENTECOST FULFILLED THE PROPHECY OF JOEL AS PETER PREACHED–YOUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS WILL PROPHESY… PROPHESYING IS EXPLAINED LATER IN THE BIBLE AS “EDIFYING THE CHURCH” AND INSTRUCTIONS ARE GIVEN TO WOMEN AS TO HOW TO PROPERLY.
THE APOSTLES WERE TO PREACH ALL THAT JESUS HAD COMMANDED THEM–HIS COMMANDS WILL NOT COUNTER HIS COMMANDS AS REVEALED BY THE WORD THE CHURCH HAS APPROVED IN THE BIBLE.
TRUE DOCTRINE IS NOT ‘PROTESTANT’ DOCTRINE–THE TRUE CHURCH IS ONE THAT STANDS THE TEST AND AGAINST WHICH THE GATES OF HADES DO NOT PREVAIL: JESUS AND THE APOSTLES SAID THAT THE FALSE WOULD COME AND BE “PART OF THE CHURCH”! THE GENERATION AFTER THE APOSTLES IS SUSPECT–AND WE ARE WARNED NOT TO TRUST THEM ALL; WE MUST CHECK THEM AGAINST THE COMMANDS OF JESUS AND THE APOSTLES; THE CHURCH FATHERS ARE IN THIS CATEGORY…
THEY ARE THE GENERATION FOLLOWING WHO CANNOT BE TRUSTED… THE APOSTLES SET UP A COMPLAINT-SYSTEM FOR ELDERS-TRANSLATED-PRIESTS-IN-THE-DOUAY-RHEIMS REQUIRING TWO WITNESSES… ELDERS WERE NOT GOING TO BE PERFECT AND PREACHERS WERE FALSE IN THE DAY OF THE APOSTLES WHO HELD THEMSELVES OUT TO BE LEGITIMATE WHO WHEN CHECKED WITH THE DOCTRINE OF THE APOSTLES AND JESUS CHRIST PROVED FALSE…
THE LORD SAID THAT THE AUTHORITY OF THE LEADER OF ISRAEL WOULD DEPEND ON THE FAITHFULNESS OF ITS PEOPLE TO THE WORD OF THE LORD–OR BOTH THE PEOPLE AND THE RULER WOULD BE CORRUPTED AND PUNISHED BY THE LORD.
THIS IS SO.
WE HAVE A PROBLEM WHEN PEOPLE SAY “SIT BACK AND RELAX; TRUST THOSE OVER YOU.” THIS IS ANTI-SCRIPTURAL: JESUS TRUSTED NOONE BECAUSE HE KNEW WHAT WAS IN THE HEART OF MAN EVEN AS HE LOVED THEM AND MINISTERED! WE ARE TO WALK LIKE HIM–AND BE LIKE HIM.
I HAVE PLENTY OF SCRIPTURES; WANT TO SEE THEM? <3+
THE ELEVEN WERE NOT THE O NLY ONES THERE: READ LUKE; THE TRAVELERS TO EMMAUS “joined the eleven” and “those with them”! MATTHEW AND MARK MENTION ONLY THE ELEVEN! THE LORD MUST LEAD TO READ IT ALL! DO NOT STOP SHORT.
ALL WERE GIVEN THE MANDATE TO PREACH WHO WERE THERE WITH THE ELEVEN AND THEY ALL WERE TO WAIT TO BE ENDUED WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH! THOSE THERE ENDUED AT PENTECOST FULFILLED THE PROPHECY OF JOEL AS PETER PREACHED–YOUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS WILL PROPHESY… PROPHESYING IS EXPLAINED LATER IN THE BIBLE AS “EDIFYING THE CHURCH” AND INSTRUCTIONS ARE GIVEN TO WOMEN AS TO HOW TO PROPERLY.
THE APOSTLES WERE TO PREACH ALL THAT JESUS HAD COMMANDED THEM–HIS COMMANDS WILL NOT COUNTER HIS COMMANDS AS REVEALED BY THE WORD THE CHURCH HAS APPROVED IN THE BIBLE.
TRUE DOCTRINE IS NOT ‘PROTESTANT’ DOCTRINE–THE TRUE CHURCH IS ONE THAT STANDS THE TEST AND AGAINST WHICH THE GATES OF HADES DO NOT PREVAIL: JESUS AND THE APOSTLES SAID THAT THE FALSE WOULD COME AND BE “PART OF THE CHURCH”! THE GENERATION AFTER THE APOSTLES IS SUSPECT–AND WE ARE WARNED NOT TO TRUST THEM ALL; WE MUST CHECK THEM AGAINST THE COMMANDS OF JESUS AND THE APOSTLES; THE CHURCH FATHERS ARE IN THIS CATEGORY…
THEY ARE THE GENERATION FOLLOWING WHO CANNOT BE TRUSTED… THE APOSTLES SET UP A COMPLAINT-SYSTEM FOR ELDERS-TRANSLATED-PRIESTS-IN-THE-DOUAY-RHEIMS REQUIRING TWO WITNESSES… ELDERS WERE NOT GOING TO BE PERFECT AND PREACHERS WERE FALSE IN THE DAY OF THE APOSTLES WHO HELD THEMSELVES OUT TO BE LEGITIMATE WHO WHEN CHECKED WITH THE DOCTRINE OF THE APOSTLES AND JESUS CHRIST PROVED FALSE…
THE LORD SAID THAT THE AUTHORITY OF THE LEADER OF ISRAEL WOULD DEPEND ON THE FAITHFULNESS OF ITS PEOPLE TO THE WORD OF THE LORD–OR BOTH THE PEOPLE AND THE RULER WOULD BE CORRUPTED AND PUNISHED BY THE LORD.
THIS IS SO.
WE HAVE A PROBLEM WHEN PEOPLE SAY “SIT BACK AND RELAX; TRUST THOSE OVER YOU.” THIS IS ANTI-SCRIPTURAL: JESUS TRUSTED NOONE BECAUSE HE KNEW WHAT WAS IN THE HEART OF MAN EVEN AS HE LOVED THEM AND MINISTERED! WE ARE TO WALK LIKE HIM–AND BE LIKE HIM.
I HAVE PLENTY OF SCRIPTURES; WANT TO SEE THEM? <3+
T
THEYEHOVAH
Guest
Second half *: Truth and “catholic doctrine” should never contradict each other! “catholic doctrine” is catholic insofar as it is the truth and not vice-versa!
We do not trust “because it is catholic”; it is catholic because it is truth! If it does not stand the test of the truth then it is “catholic” so-called! Implying that one is “protestant” because one preaches the truth is insulting to catholic faith! <3+
We do not trust “because it is catholic”; it is catholic because it is truth! If it does not stand the test of the truth then it is “catholic” so-called! Implying that one is “protestant” because one preaches the truth is insulting to catholic faith! <3+
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muffindell
Guest
You are correct in saying that we do not get our dogmas and rules from the Bible, they are purely man made to suit a particular requirement of the early church role in keeping people on the correct path to ‘salvation’. Of course everything we know about Christ is from the bible, after all it’s the story of Christ. Unfortunately, due misinterpretation, misinformation, mistransulation and manipulation, the RC church became the main player of power for hundreds of years. It’s a bit like manipulated Chinese whispers.
You should read the bible and try to understand what values it’s trying to portray. Only then will you be true to the word of Our Lord Jesus Christ, not the dogma that RC church is immersed in. Remember what I said at the begining, dogma is man made for the good of it’s own cause.
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Godfollower
Guest
Huh? I’m afraid you’re mistaken. The Catholic Church teaches only what it has been taught from the earliest days. The New Testament comes from the Church under God’s guidance, and all dogma (and all doctrine) is in conformity with Scripture. It is as impossible to divorce Church dogma from Scripture as it is to divorce the Church from Jesus. He promised He would send the new Paraclete to keep the Church from leading His followers astray; and He keeps His promises.
Now, if you’re talking about something an individual priest might say, sure, priests can and do make mistakes. But the Church’s dogmas are all Scripture-based.
M
muffindell
Guest
Godfollower, I agree with some of what you say. However the RC church has for want of a better word manipulated the stories from the witnesses (apostles). The fact there are plenty of Gospels not included in the bible is indicative of this fact (some further ireading can be found on gospel-mysteries.net/lost-gospels.html) Questions need to be asked of the church why all sacred words of all Gospels wore not included in the collective book that we know has the bible. It’s obvious that the accounts of the missing Gospels didn’t fit in with what the RC church wanted the public to hear, it would undermine their ability to rule. The RC church should teach from all parts of the Gospels and accept that some accounts may be
controversial, but at least it’s true to the accounts of the people that witnessed what really happened to our Lord Jesus Christ.
controversial, but at least it’s true to the accounts of the people that witnessed what really happened to our Lord Jesus Christ.
I
IanGE
Guest
There are several doctrines which contradict Scripture:
- “Thou shalt not MAKE graven images…” not just a prohibition to worship them, light candles and pray to them.
- Jesus made no differentiation between mortal and venial sins, getting angry with your brother is as good as murder etc.
- “Remember to KEEP HOLY the sabbath day.” Nothing about miss mass and you’ll go to hell.
- Peter and many apostles were married, yet celibacy is enforced.
I could go on but ONE contradiction is enough: according to the Church’s own teaching: “falsus in unam, falsus in ubique.”
Sad to say it was whichever Vatican Council that gave doctrine and dogma the same WEIGHT as the Word of God that scandalized the Christian world and initiated “Protestantism”. And continues scandalizing so many, including Catholics, to this day.
Finally, I am currently reading “Irish Tiger” the latest Nuala Ann novel by Father Andrew M Greely. Father Greely is a Catholic priest and sociologist, teaching in the Universities of Chicago and Arizona, Tuscon. In his book, someone quotes the Bible at Dermot, Nuala’s husband, who replies, “I am a Catholic, I don’t read the Bible”
. He also regularly comments in his novels, “if God wanted His church to be perfect he would have left angels to run it, not humans!”
PS Let us remember that the Pope has only spoken infallibly twice since that doctrine was augmented.
M
Melchior_1
Guest
There are several doctrines which contradict Scripture:
- “Thou shalt not MAKE graven images…” not just a prohibition to worship them, light candles and pray to them.
- Jesus made no differentiation between mortal and venial sins, getting angry with your brother is as good as murder etc.
- “Remember to KEEP HOLY the sabbath day.” Nothing about miss mass and you’ll go to hell.
- Peter and many apostles were married, yet celibacy is enforced.
I could go on but ONE contradiction is enough: according to the Church’s own teaching: “falsus in unam, falsus in ubique.”
Sad to say it was whichever Vatican Council that gave doctrine and dogma the same WEIGHT as the Word of God that scandalized the Christian world and initiated “Protestantism”. And continues scandalizing so many, including Catholics, to this day.
Finally, I am currently reading “Irish Tiger” the latest Nuala Ann novel by Father Andrew M Greely. Father Greely is a Catholic priest and sociologist, teaching in the Universities of Chicago and Arizona, Tuscon. In his book, someone quotes the Bible at Dermot, Nuala’s husband, who replies, “I am a Catholic, I don’t read the Bible”
PS Let us remember that the Pope has only spoken infallibly twice since that doctrine was augmented.
- Yet if you want to get technical, engraved images could be anything from statues to paintings. That includes pictures and what not. Which means any Islamic, Jewish, or Christian group with any of those are apparently contradicting things.
- Yet Paul says “not all sin is fatal”. Objectively, shoplifting an apple is not as bad as being a serial killer. Should both be put away in prison for the same amoutn of time?
- Yet Jesus never missed a passover. In fact, He made His final passover the first Mass. Shouldn’t we try to be like Jesus?
- Yet if you know your Bible, you know Paul actually says celibacy a desired state.
Finally, I noticed you put down “Catholic Charismatic - Charismatic Catholic /Christian?” as your religion. As a fellow charismatic Catholic (for fifteen years now), I encourage you to dive into the writings of the early Church Fathers. Read the works of Blessed John Henry Newman & Blessed John Duns Scotus. Read up on Gospel Poverty and the writings of the Doctors of the Church.
There’s a lot of richness in Catholicism. If you open your heart and mind and be receptive to the Holy Spirit, you can stand to benefit greatly.
T
THEYEHOVAH
Guest
Book
T
THEYEHOVAH
Guest
the bible as we know it was put together over time as written in each period and came together over time… The holy spirit added the words of prophets in different periods and prophets still walk today… The commissioned to translate the existing scriptures for…the…catholic…church noted that certain scriptures were core and are the ones the catholic church first recognized as canonical and which are still greatly esteemed by those with more narrow lists and those with wider lists than the catholic of today–protestant and ethiopian are examples–and the other books approved…later. These other books are helpful and at the same time not core in the same way that the central–or ‘first’ books are…
Christians of the first century were already passing around letters before the time mentioned and heavily relying on them and supporting them or else disputing others… Jesus supported scriptures and proved himself by them and early christians searched by the scriptures approving the apostles using what they had…as the scriptures instructed; jesus criticizing those who set at nought the scriptures in favor of their tradition reaffirmed the role of scriptures–correctly interpreted–they claim for themselves…
<3+
T
THEYEHOVAH
Guest
THE KIDS UNDERSTAND–AND THEY ARE NOT QUOTING SCRIPTURES UNLESS THEY DO NOT HAVE THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHOUT THE CONTEXT! WE HAVE MANY PROTESTANTS MISINTERPRETED AS WELL AS MANY CATHOLICS MISINTERPRETED! THOSE WITHOUT HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM–TEND TO STRING TOGETHER SCRIPTURES WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING… THIS IS WHERE THE MISUNDERSTANDING “SOLA SCRIPTURA” [SP] COMES FROM; THE INTENT IS NOT SCRIPTURE ALONE BUT SCRIPTURE INTERPRETED BY HOLY SPIRIT–WHICH IS THE CATHOLIC STANDPOINT–BUT IS MISINTERPRETED BY BOTH CATHOLICS AND CERTAIN “PROTESTANTS” TO MEAN SCRIPTURE ALONE…PERIOD. FULL-GOSPEL TEACHES THEIR KIDS THE SCRIPTURE BUT RELATIONSHIP MORE IMPORTANTLY WHEN IT IS TRUE…AS CATHOLICS INTEND. ONE CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES WITHOUT GOD: 1 CORINTHIANS 2:14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURE WITHOUT THE BAPTISM–OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. <3+
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THEYEHOVAH
Guest
T
THEYEHOVAH
Guest
T
THEYEHOVAH
Guest
I CAUTION–AGAINST THE NEW AMERICAN BIBLE; ARE YOU BAPTIZED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT: YOU SOUND NOT–THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL LEAD TO THE PROPER TRANSLATION. THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES ARE FAITHFUL–TRANSLATIONS ARE HUMAN RENDERINGS THOUGH SOME TRANSLATED MORE FAITHFULLY ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT AND SOME SEEMINGLY BY ATHEISTS WHEN YOU READ THE COMMENTARY ON EVEN SOME HIGHLY REGARDED TRANSLATIONS SUCH AS THE NEW REVISED STANDARD: UGH! NEVERTHELESS: GOD WILL LEAD YOU EVEN TO THAT ONE WHEN RENDERED MORE CLEARLY! DO NOT FALL PREY TO THE PREJUDICE–AGAINST THE KIN G JAMES ANY MORE THAN THE PREJUDICE FOR THE KING JAMES! DO NOT REGARD HUMAN JUDGMENT BUT RELY ON GOD–HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE BAPTISIM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?! READ ACTS FROM THE BEGINNING TO BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND IT; THAT WILL BE ALL THE TEACHER YOU NEED WHEN IT CHECKS THE TEACHER TEACHING YOU AND AGREES WITH THE SCRIPTURES! YOU WILL BE FILLED WITH A DESIRE FOR SCRIPTURE–AND DISCERNMENT… SIMPLY ASK; JESUS SAID–THE FATHER WOULD GIVE IT.Thank you so much! This actually answers all of my questions, and you did it without being rude or trying to belittle my parents, or me.
when I said the Catholic Church, I did not mean it as a whole. I understand the limitations in the time that they have to teach, but you are right, a huge factor is the teacher. However, I do think that the teacher should be given a little bit more of guidance. I once had a high school student teaching my fourth grade class, and from the beginning she told us she was only doing this for the community service, but since the Church was short on volunteers, they had to accept her.
I was also told that most Protestants quote the King James Bible, which was translated to better fit the Protestant ideas. I stopped reading that version, and now I just use the New American Bible (when I’m reading from the physical Bible) and the New International Version (when I look verses up online). I’m not sure if this is true or not, but I’m assuming you would know?
Thank you again!
AND…NOT…SOMETHING BAD! JESUS SAID–TO ASK AND KEEP ASKING LIKE THE WIDOW PESTERING THE JUDGE–FOR ASK FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT YOURSELF–ACTS 19:2“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.“No,” they replied, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3“Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked.
And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
4Paul said, “John’s baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus.”
5As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tonguesb and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all. [NEW LIVING TRANSLATION]: JOHN 16:12 I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you. 14 He shall glorify me; because he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it to you. 15 All things whatsoever the Father hath, are mine. Therefore I said, that he shall receive of mine, and shew it to you. LUKE 11:8“I tell you, even though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will get up and give him as much as he needs.
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9“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10“For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11“Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12“Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him? [NEW AMERICAN STANDARD]”- Status