Does the high divorce rate among Christians undermine the credibility of what it teaches about dating and marriage?

[mek42]

In agreement with Deana83 from the other side of the fence, so to speak, at one point in my life I gave up looking for a mate and decided to periodically settle for a one night stand. Two weeks later I met the woman who is now my wife.

I also agree with the folks who counsel not to confuse agnosticism with anger at God. If to no one else, if you are not true to yourself, how can you find any sense of fulfillment?

Maybe you think you need some sort of rumspringa (sp, an Amish tradition), just be honest with yourself that right now your faith decisions are predominantly rooted in emotion, not reason.

 

[Starrsmother]

In agreement with Deana83 from the other side of the fence, so to speak, at one point in my life I gave up looking for a mate and decided to periodically settle for a one night stand. Two weeks later I met the woman who is now my wife.

I also agree with the folks who counsel not to confuse agnosticism with anger at God. If to no one else, if you are not true to yourself, how can you find any sense of fulfillment?

Maybe you think you need some sort of rumspringa (sp, an Amish tradition), just be honest with yourself that right now your faith decisions are predominantly rooted in emotion, not reason.

What is a “rumspringa”? I’m just curious–never heard the word before?

 

[mek42]

What is a “rumspringa”? I’m just curious–never heard the word before?

At about the age of sixteen, Amish youth go out and explore the outside world and then decide whether to come back to Amish community. This is a concise summary of what rumspringa is, the time spent outside.

 

[Starrsmother]

At about the age of sixteen, Amish youth go out and explore the outside world and then decide whether to come back to Amish community. This is a concise summary of what rumspringa is, the time spent outside.

I wonder how many come back? And if they don’t come back, how does the amish community then deal with them? Of course being raised amish and that being their known and familiar lifestyle, perhaps that’s the key to making them feel they come back of their own decision to remain amish the rest of their lives. Interesting…

 

[mek42]

I wonder how many come back? And if they don’t come back, how does the amish community then deal with them? Of course being raised amish and that being their known and familiar lifestyle, perhaps that’s the key to making them feel they come back of their own decision to remain amish the rest of their lives. Interesting…

Would be interesting, could maybe compare to other faiths, what the rate is of children remaining in the faith of parents after college or military service, etc.

Getting a bit off topic now though, if stats existed somewhere, this would be interesting thread in its own right.

 

[Kelfa28]

Would be interesting, could maybe compare to other faiths, what the rate is of children remaining in the faith of parents after college or military service, etc.

Getting a bit off topic now though, if stats existed somewhere, this would be interesting thread in its own right.

From what I’ve read…the number is upwards of 90% of Amish children choose to remain and be baptized into the faith (for them that is age 16 plus).

I think it has much to do with the total immersion these children experience within the community of being Amish.

The Amish are amazing. They tend to have very large families and can retain a vast majority…if not all of their children…in the Amish faith. This is despite allowing the children to experience Rumspringa.

 

[Midwest88]

I give humanity more credit than that. Sometimes, self-control is what satisfies people. Do we need religion to know that it’s not good to victimize others?

Where did this knowing come from? Certainly not out of thin air.

Back to the original topic, for the agnostic there is no moral issue with sex, dating, and divorce, unless he or she chooses to think so. As long as both sides consent and neither side is victimized, it’s fine.

Really?

But yes, it is quite evident that God created people with SSA.

I can say “But there is no gay gene.” What then?

Women my age tend to be pro-choice and pro-gay rights, because they have keener understanding of civil rights,

Keener? You imply that those who aren’t ‘pro-choice’ and ‘pro-gay’ rights are less receptive.

You are just rambling.

 

[CaliLobo]

Where did this knowing come from? Certainly not out of thin air.

Common sense? A knowledge that victimizing one another hurts society?

Really?

Yes. What would be the moral qualm for the agnostic? It would be his or her choice. If one has no moral qualm about it, then there is no moral issue.

I can say “But there is no gay gene.” What then?

Sexuality is not just about genetics; it’s complicated.

Keener? You imply that those who aren’t ‘pro-choice’ and ‘pro-gay’ rights are less receptive.

You are just rambling.

Young, college-educated people all understand the importance of these civil rights issues, and are educated on the historical oppression of the Catholic Church in Europe and Latin America, and how today the Catholic Church still obstructs the rights of women and gays.

Fortunately, we see signs of change with Pope Francis. Change that is sorely needed, or else the CC will disappear and go extinct.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m going to give you the same advice I gave my son. To find a woman you have to go where the women are. One place where you can find a lot of women is at a horse show. Yes, 95% of the people there are women. The majority are athletic and of all ages. In fact, when I was single I spent most of my time at horse shows.

Your city hosts the Arabian National Show, lots of pretty women and horses. The New Mexico State Fair has a horse show this weekend. Take some riding lessons. Trust me, you’ll meet a lot of women. Many will be nice Christians women too.

You don’t even have to ride the horses. You just have to be willing to share most of your girlfriend or wife’s free time with them!

Seriously, OP, if you like being around horses and horse people, you don’t even have to be a rider. Every organization can use people who help do the grunt work and appreciate the goal of the group. If you are going to resent spending a lot of time and money on the purchase and upkeep of a horse, this will not be your best venue for finding a good match. If you enjoy watching the horses and riders and won’t begrudge the amount of time that it takes to care for and train a horse, though, you may become a man of gold with a heart of gold in one of these horse circles. A lot of horsewomen cannot find a man who is willing to see her horses as anything other than competition for the center of her attention.

 

[EasterJoy]

From what I’ve read…the number is upwards of 90% of Amish children choose to remain and be baptized into the faith (for them that is age 16 plus).

I think it has much to do with the total immersion these children experience within the community of being Amish.

The Amish are amazing. They tend to have very large families and can retain a vast majority…if not all of their children…in the Amish faith. This is despite allowing the children to experience Rumspringa.

I think it is because they allow a limited amount of real exposure to the outside world–the Rumspringa–is among the reasons that the next generation of Amish who decide to stay really do stay. They have to have fewer people who “go through a mid-life crisis” because their young people have a chance to see (rather than indulge in) what the non-Amish world really is offering. I do not mean that the Amish youth go out sinning in terms of breaking the Ten Commandments or getting drunk or using drugs, but that the Amish go out and see that “untaming the plain” isn’t necessarily a big gain. It is also a chance to socialize without the parents directly chaperoning and watching and listening right there. The Amish wisely want their youth to freely decide to be in the community, rather than trying to keep them captive as members of a coercive cult.

IOW, my understanding of the Rumspringa is that it is not carte blanche to sin, but a chance for self-guidance in the world, a chance to act as an adult making his or her own decisions, leading up to the adult decision of accepting baptism and the rules specific to the community. The Amish are good parents and would never encourage their children to “try on sin”, after all! Rather, they allow their children things that they themselves have renounced as too much of a near occasion of sin to take on as a lifetime habit. There is a big difference.

 

[Saturn5]

Young, college-educated people all understand the importance of these civil rights issues, and are educated on the historical oppression of the Catholic Church in Europe and Latin America, and how today the Catholic Church still obstructs the rights of women and gays.

Fortunately, we see signs of change with Pope Francis. Change that is sorely needed, or else the CC will disappear and go extinct.

CaliLobo -

I’ve followed this thread and some of your other posts on other threads. Know that you have been and are in my prayers.

I humbly submit to you the above statement is both myopic and self-centered from a Western viewpoint. You are in a very long line of people that have predicted the demise of the Catholic Church numerous times over the centuries. The only reason you read signs of change in the Church is because it is printed in the main stream media. The same media written by those young, educated people you reference, that do not understand Catholic teaching. I offer you the interview in it’s entirety and not the sound bite snippets reported on TV and the internet.

For your review…americamagazine.org/pope-interview

May the Lord bless you.

 

[CaliLobo]

CaliLobo -

I’ve followed this thread and some of your other posts on other threads. Know that you have been and are in my prayers.

I humbly submit to you the above statement is both myopic and self-centered from a Western viewpoint. You are in a very long line of people that have predicted the demise of the Catholic Church numerous times over the centuries. The only reason you read signs of change in the Church is because it is printed in the main stream media. The same media written by those young, educated people you reference, that do not understand Catholic teaching. I offer you the interview in it’s entirety and not the sound bite snippets reported on TV and the internet.

For your review…americamagazine.org/pope-interview

May the Lord bless you.

Thank you for the kind words, but I no longer believe in the power of prayer. God has said no to so many of my prayers, and now he won’t say yes to my prayers to bring her back. That’s the last straw.

It’s clear he doesn’t care. But more interestingly, my happiness level hasn’t changed since leaving the faith. I still have happy moments and upset moments.

I have read that link and will read it again.

 

[underacloud]

Thank you for the kind words, but I no longer believe in the power of prayer. God has said no to so many of my prayers, and now he won’t say yes to my prayers to bring her back. That’s the last straw.

It’s clear he doesn’t care. But more interestingly, my happiness level hasn’t changed since leaving the faith. I still have happy moments and upset moments.

I’m a father of four and can assure you that my children get upset with me when I say no to things that are not in their interests at a particular time (or ever). That’s my job as a father; not to give them what they want, or what they think they need, but to truly love them and guard their best interests.

You sound like a child throwing a tantrum because you’re not getting your way. When my children do that, I am even less likely to relent. Do you think that God is more likely to give you what you want if you turn your back on Him?

And why pray to a God who you think you know better than anyway? What kind of God is that? If God is God, then He knows better than you and you ought to pray for His will, not your own.

 

[PaulinVA]

Thank you for the kind words, but I no longer believe in the power of prayer. God has said no to so many of my prayers, and now he won’t say yes to my prayers to bring her back. That’s the last straw.

It’s clear he doesn’t care. But more interestingly, my happiness level hasn’t changed since leaving the faith. I still have happy moments and upset moments.

I have read that link and will read it again.

Let me tell you a story. It comes from a Dominican in a city.
He was called to the Emergency Room to pray for a cop who was shot. He found the cop in a treatment room - he was not seriously hurt. The cop asked for the annointing of the sick, and mentioned he hadn’t been to Mass in years. My friend asked why he didn’t believe anymore. The cop said he did believe in God, in the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

My friend asked why, if he believed, he stopped going to Mass. The cop said that one Sunday years ago a *&$##@ priest had preached about police brutality and the cop hadn’t gone to Mass since. My friend the priest asked him if he believed in the Real Presence in the Eucharist, but didn’t go to Mass, and the cop said yes, he yearned for the Eucharist. My friend, who is sometimes blunt, siad, “Let me get this straight. You believe in the Eucharist, want to go to Mass and receive, but have stayed away for years because of something someone said? Wow, who’s the *&$##@ now?”

I say this to you in love. You believe in God, but are mad at him because he wouldn’t force a girl you had dated for 19 days to fall in love with you and spend the rest of her life with you? Isn’t that a pretty tall order? Would you want God to force you to marry someone against your will?

Following God is not about happiness. It’s not about getting the girl of your dreams. It is about growing into the best person you can be. There will always be happier, better looking and more successful people than you. There will also be less happy, less good looking and less successful people than you. That’s the way it is.

 

[CaliLobo]

…I say this to you in love. You believe in God, but are mad at him because he wouldn’t force a girl you had dated for 19 days to fall in love with you and spend the rest of her life with you? Isn’t that a pretty tall order? Would you want God to force you to marry someone against your will?

Following God is not about happiness. It’s not about getting the girl of your dreams. It is about growing into the best person you can be. There will always be happier, better looking and more successful people than you. There will also be less happy, less good looking and less successful people than you. That’s the way it is.

I’m not mad at God for “forcing” a girl to date me or spend life with me.

I’m mad at God for making me so socially inept that I make such horrible mistakes in dating. I’m 32, I can’t afford to make any more dating mistakes.

God provided me to her, but didn’t give me the skills to keep her. Because of my mistakes, I lost her.

It doesn’t help that God also made me:

1. Go through all this education for a job in the desert that doesn’t pay off, in an industry that is not in demand
2. Asian and male–the hidden racism and negative perceptions we face worldwide, including in dating
3. Short–this doesn’t attract women
4. Unathletic–this doesn’t attract women
5. An innocent image–this doesn’t attract women. (Should I get ink done, even if my mom will disown me??)

I’m a lone ranger. I have no close family except parents. Many of my former friends have moved on without me, because I have moved for jobs and schools. I might be the next 3DOCTORS in the thread about shutting down Facebook; when my grandparents and parents move on, it could mean the loss of ties with my extended family.

If God knows I’m going through loneliness, why won’t he help me?

underacloud:

I’m a father of four and can assure you that my children get upset with me when I say no to things that are not in their interests at a particular time (or ever). That’s my job as a father; not to give them what they want, or what they think they need, but to truly love them and guard their best interests.

You sound like a child throwing a tantrum because you’re not getting your way. When my children do that, I am even less likely to relent. Do you think that God is more likely to give you what you want if you turn your back on Him?

I know my parents have my best interest at heart when they deny my requests. But I’m not sure God has my best interest at heart. God is making me suffer. He doesn’t care about me.

 

[underacloud]

If God knows I’m going through loneliness, why won’t he help me?

Maybe He is trying to help you, but every effort is met with your resistance. How many people have tried to post helpful advice in this and other threads you’ve started? Yet almost any advice is met with resistance, dismissal, or you telling us how you know better.

People who have success in dating/marriage try to help you, but you aren’t ready to accept help.

And now your saying you turned your back on God…but you’re still angry at Him because He wont help you. That’s a bit rich, isn’t it?

I know my parents have my best interest at heart when they deny my requests. But I’m not sure God has my best interest at heart. God is making me suffer. He doesn’t care about me.

Your own pride is making you suffer. God cares, but you think you know better.

You think you deserve success in dating, but it’s clear to everyone who has read this thread that you are not ready for it. You are not in a place in your life right now where you could possibly enter and maintain a healthy relationship.

PS I’m no post card to look at, but my wife seems to like me, and women I dated before her did too. There are a lot of people for whom looks are not important. Equally, there are lots of people who do like various “types”, so to say you are held back because you are Asian is absurd. You’re held back because of your poor attitude and self pity. You want to attract women - stop feeling sorry for yourself - it’s one of the biggest turn-offs there is!

 

[PaulinVA]

Calilobo, I feel for you.

We each have our problems. I’m not sure that we can blame God, though. It’s just genetics. It’s just life. I do feel for you, though. If I hadn’t met my wife, I don’t know what would have happened to me.

 

[Xantippe]

Calilobo wrote:

“I’m 32, I can’t afford to make any more dating mistakes.”

Sure you can. Eventually, a lot of your male competition will die off, and you’ll be left squiring all the cute widows around the retirement community. Get ready! I’m sorta kidding, sorta not kidding. If you live long enough, you’ll eventually have lots of options. Granted, they’ll be 60 and 70-somethings, but you will be, too.

 

[CaliLobo]

Sure you can. Eventually, a lot of your male competition will die off, and you’ll be left squiring all the cute widows around the retirement community. Get ready! I’m sorta kidding, sorta not kidding. If you live long enough, you’ll eventually have lots of options. Granted, they’ll be 60 and 70-somethings, but you will be, too.

 

[CaliLobo]

Maybe He is trying to help you, but every effort is met with your resistance. How many people have tried to post helpful advice in this and other threads you’ve started? Yet almost any advice is met with resistance, dismissal, or you telling us how you know better.

People who have success in dating/marriage try to help you, but you aren’t ready to accept help.

And now your saying you turned your back on God…but you’re still angry at Him because He wont help you. That’s a bit rich, isn’t it?

It’s not like God has ever provided for me in the relationship department in the first place.