Does the Lord condone polygamy?

  • Thread starter Thread starter why_me
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I think the point of this thread was to ask this question.

I’m curious to about this.

If The Lord is against polygamy, why would He give David his “wives”.
Why would He give King David more than 1 wife?

I think this was the original question of the thread.

May The Lord Our God Bless You All!
You are right. And the answer did not exactly come from the catholics on this thread. The lord gave david many wives as a reward. The problem came when he took a wife without permission and murdered that woman’s husband. But even here, he was forgiven. So, we see a different god here in the OT than from the NT.

Conclusion: polygamy could have been restored by god and the mormons were perfectly in the right to practice it and claim it was a commandment from god. Knowing the god of the OT, it would not be impossible for him to do so.
 
The Mormons can practice polygamy if their state allows it.

But Christ did not. He is the construct of our Catholic faith.

Mormons are good people, but their construct of faith is not totally on Christ like Catholicism is.
 
You are right. And the answer did not exactly come from the catholics on this thread. The lord gave david many wives as a reward. The problem came when he took a wife without permission and murdered that woman’s husband. But even here, he was forgiven. So, we see a different god here in the OT than from the NT.

Conclusion: polygamy could have been restored by god and the mormons were perfectly in the right to practice it and claim it was a commandment from god. Knowing the god of the OT, it would not be impossible for him to do so.
Mormons can claim what they want to justify their repugnant practice, but the NT is clear, polygyny is NOT a Christian practice. The NT makes it clear that polygyny is NOT the way God intended marriage from the beginning and it was NOT what was expected in the Christian church.
 
I think the point of this thread was to ask this question.

I’m curious to about this.

If The Lord is against polygamy, why would He give David his “wives”.
Why would He give King David more than 1 wife?

I think this was the original question of the thread.

May The Lord Our God Bless You All!
While the OP started out in this fashion, if you read his posts through the thread it becomes apparent that the point in starting the thread in the first place is to justify LDS polygny. He tries to turn “condone” (some here have said tolerate but I tend to think of it as akin to working with someone at their development level), into command as though it is some sort of natural progression all the while trying to make LDS adultery look okay. And that it is a natural outcome that God “commands polygyny”.
 
Brigham and Emma did not get along and words were exchanged when he was in Utah and she was in Nauvoo but much of this was based or he said, she said and rumor.

It was only recently that the ancestors of Young and Emma made up and let bygones be bygones. 🙂
She believed in the church? Her second husband was non LDS. And I’ve read the death sentence on Emma from Young in more than one place. Hopefully the Fawn book talks about this.
 
The catholic church centers itself in the old and new testament and the readings prove my point. I defend the mormons where they need defending. I don’t see it as charitable to constantly bash mormons for their beliefs and nitpick their faith.

All religions can be nitpicked to death. But on this forum it would not be possible to nitpick the catholic faith without being banned. So, catholics have a safe house here.

But in my reading, the lord is definitely supporting polygamy which means that it would not be impossible for him to do so with the mormons. And that was my point.
Your point is that you’re trying to justify Mormon polygamy to yourself because you’ve already made up your mind.

No, Biblical polygamy is different from Mormon polygamy because in David’s case, it was a form of welfare; there were worse fates in the ancient world than having to be a concubine, specifically slavery and death.

It goes against the Biblical standard of monogamy, yes, but it was tolerated because of the hardness of people’s hearts. (Matt 19:8) It is clearly denounced in Deut 17:17.

By the time of Joseph Smith’s ‘revelation’ (D&C 132) about polygamy on July 12, 1843, he already had 28 plural wives. In its proper historical context, the revelation was given because Smith needed to convince Emma that what he was doing was of divine origin but he was too much of a coward to do it himself so he committed it to paper and gave it to his brother Hyrum, who, in turn, gave it to Emma. Needless to say, she was less than thrilled.

He produced at least a few children from these unholy unions that were given to other members of the church to raise. Emma is even said to have shoved one of his other pregnant wives down the stairs, causing her to miscarry.

I think the victim in all of this polygamy mess was Emma; she was forced to watch her husband, the man she loved, pretend to be a prophet of God, sneaking around with other women, and calling it His divine will with little recourse. It was probably somewhat of a relief when he was murdered. At least the madness stopped.

She would later deny that Joseph practiced it at all, instead blaming it on Brigham Young and Orson Pratt. So convinced was her son, Joseph Smith III, that he went on a mission to Utah on the basis that his father was not a polygamist and that Mormons should return and join the RLDS.
 
She believed in the church? Her second husband was non LDS. And I’ve read the death sentence on Emma from Young in more than one place. Hopefully the Fawn book talks about this.
Mormonism is, in a way, a fraternity; it has a lot of benefits and does good things and there are a lot of Mormons who have problems with its doctrines but stay in the fold because of the sense of community and belonging they feel. To leave Mormonism is to generally be shunned.

She may have been one of those non-believing-but-still-practicing Mormons like Thomas Stuart Ferguson, a life-long member who discovered through archaeology that the BOM was a fraud.
 
One question to whyme:

Why do you defend the LDS Church, especially the Polygamy pracitced there since you are Catholic?
Are thinking to convert?

Of course it is never good to write only bad and harsh things about other faithes.
One always has to accept what others believe, yes, even the LDS.

Esdra
 
One question to whyme:

Why do you defend the LDS Church, especially the Polygamy pracitced there since you are Catholic?
Are thinking to convert?

Of course it is never good to write only bad and harsh things about other faithes.
One always has to accept what others believe, yes, even the LDS.

Esdra
Defending the LDS Church puts a person opposed to the Catholic Church.
 
You are right. And the answer did not exactly come from the catholics on this thread. The lord gave david many wives as a reward. The problem came when he took a wife without permission and murdered that woman’s husband. But even here, he was forgiven. So, we see a different god here in the OT than from the NT.
No, we don’t. We just see a different Covenant from the same God.
why me:
Conclusion: polygamy could have been restored by god and the mormons were perfectly in the right to practice it and claim it was a commandment from god. Knowing the god of the OT, it would not be impossible for him to do so.
Yes, it would be impossible, given Christ’s command as part of the New Covenant. And POLYGYNY was never a COMMAND fromt God, it was simply allowed under the Old Covenant, the covenant of the Law, written in stone, and hereby forbidden in the New Covenant, the covenant of the Spirit, written in blood.
Jeremiah 31:31-34:
The days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers the day I took them by the hand to lead them forth from the land of Egypt; for they broke my covenant and I had to show myself their master, says the LORD.

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD. I will place my law within them, and write it upon their hearts; I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

No longer will they have need to teach their friends and kinsmen how to know the LORD. All, from least to greatest, shall know me, says the LORD, for I will forgive their evildoing and remember their sin no more.
Conclusion: Unless you take Joseph Smith’s word over Jesus’, POLYGYNY was banned by God, and one man and one wife were and are part of God’s plan for humankind, since Adam and Eve.

If, as you have said previously on this thread
In the usa, people should be free to practice their faith but in the mormon case, they were not free to do so.
, and people should be free to marry whomever their faith dictates they may, please explain why the LDS Church is so opposed to same sex marriage.
 
Your point is that you’re trying to justify Mormon polygamy to yourself because you’ve already made up your mind.

No, Biblical polygamy is different from Mormon polygamy because in David’s case, it was a form of welfare; there were worse fates in the ancient world than having to be a concubine, specifically slavery and death.

It goes against the Biblical standard of monogamy, yes, but it was tolerated because of the hardness of people’s hearts. (Matt 19:8) It is clearly denounced in Deut 17:17.

By the time of Joseph Smith’s ‘revelation’ (D&C 132) about polygamy on July 12, 1843, he already had 28 plural wives. In its proper historical context, the revelation was given because Smith needed to convince Emma that what he was doing was of divine origin but he was too much of a coward to do it himself so he committed it to paper and gave it to his brother Hyrum, who, in turn, gave it to Emma. Needless to say, she was less than thrilled.

He produced at least a few children from these unholy unions that were given to other members of the church to raise. Emma is even said to have shoved one of his other pregnant wives down the stairs, causing her to miscarry.

I think the victim in all of this polygamy mess was Emma; she was forced to watch her husband, the man she loved, pretend to be a prophet of God, sneaking around with other women, and calling it His divine will with little recourse. It was probably somewhat of a relief when he was murdered. At least the madness stopped.

She would later deny that Joseph practiced it at all, instead blaming it on Brigham Young and Orson Pratt. So convinced was her son, Joseph Smith III, that he went on a mission to Utah on the basis that his father was not a polygamist and that Mormons should return and join the RLDS.
That’s a very intersting post. Thank you. 🙂

I like the LDS Church and especially the RLDS Church (now Community of Christ), too.**

LDS Church: **In some points their teachings are good. Although one should rather call Joseph Smith a “fallen prophet” than a prophet - especially when translating the Book of Abraham, he came extremely far away from Christianity.
Anyone read it? It’s really strange and his practically nothing to do with Christianity!

The CoC is on a good track, I think. They are becoming more and more Christians (although they use in the English speaking countries still the Bible-Translation of Joseph Smith. Especially in non English speaking countries (were they use the “Einheitsübersetzung” and only rarely the D&C [only the newest prophesies from their presidany and their present day prophets] and the Book of Mormon!
communityofchrist.net/index.html
 
To leave Mormonism is to generally be shunned.
Shunned by whom? When someone leaves mormonism they no longer participate in lds functions. But they are more than welcome to. But they don’t. When a person leaves mormonism they no longer want anything to do with the lds church, thus, they shun the members. It is that simple. You have it backwards.
 
One question to whyme:

Why do you defend the LDS Church, especially the Polygamy pracitced there since you are Catholic?
Are thinking to convert?

Of course it is never good to write only bad and harsh things about other faithes.
One always has to accept what others believe, yes, even the LDS.

Esdra
I defend the lds practice of polygamy because certain catholics here mock the lds church. And as I have shown with the reading, the lord supported polygamy in the OT. So, there is no reason why he wouldn’t reestablish the practice during the time of Joseph Smith.
 
She believed in the church? Her second husband was non LDS. And I’ve read the death sentence on Emma from Young in more than one place. Hopefully the Fawn book talks about this.
She believed in the book of mormon and in her first husband JS. I said that she felt a lot of pain when married to JS as a member of the lds church. The persecution and home burnings where a problem and of course, her husband and brother-in law were murdered. As I said, when asked to return to the church she replied that she experienced too much pain as a member. But she loved her husband JS and taught her children from the bible and the book of mormon. And she never denied her husband’s calling as prophet.
 
I defend the lds practice of polygamy because certain catholics here mock the lds church. And as I have shown with the reading, the lord supported polygamy in the OT. So, there is no reason why he wouldn’t reestablish the practice during the time of Joseph Smith.
Yes, there is a VERY good reason why the practice of POLYGYNY wasn’t reestablished during the early 19th century.

Namely, because Christ forbade it, some 1800 years before. See above.
 
She believed in the book of mormon and in her first husband JS. I said that she felt a lot of pain when married to JS as a member of the lds church. The persecution and home burnings where a problem and of course, her husband and brother-in law were murdered. As I said, when asked to return to the church she replied that she experienced too much pain as a member. But she loved her husband JS and taught her children from the bible and the book of mormon. And she never denied her husband’s calling as prophet.
Reading the Brodie book, I feel sorry for Emma Smith’s father. To see a daughter get wrapped up into something like that. Sad.
 
Yes, there is a VERY good reason why the practice of POLYGYNY wasn’t reestablished during the early 19th century.

Namely, because Christ forbade it, some 1800 years before. See above.
You are both right.

But I can also see why me’s point:
In the OT polygony (or polygamy) was indeed not forbidden.
So, if Joseph Smith really was a prophet, then the Lord could have restored polygony.

I mean this doesn’t change the fact that Jesus had forbidden it. - But w’s point is indeed logical.
And I think this is all what he wanted to say with this thread. -
Although I must admit on the other hand that he also took a lot of effort to defend polygony (I don’t know why actually)…
To conclude, I am definetely against polygony. -
And what is apparently happening in the FLDS Church (and also other,smaller mormon churches who still have the polygony) is just horrible. - Yes, they are marrying 15 year old girls as wives to adult men! - This is nearly as horrible, or even more horrible, than the sexual abuses by Catholic priests!
I as a European can only say: “Typical Americans. Where else would be something like the FLDS Church be allowd?” 😉
Nothing against you, my American friends, but sometimes I have the feeling there is too much freedom (of choice) over there across the big pond. 😉

In Christ,
Esdra
 
…To conclude, I am definetely against polygony. -
And what is apparently happening in the FLDS Church (and also other,smaller mormon churches who still have the polygony) is just horrible. - Yes, they are marrying 15 year old girls as wives to adult men! - This is nearly as horrible, or even more horrible, than the sexual abuses by Catholic priests!
I as a European can only say: “Typical Americans. Where else would be something like the FLDS Church be allowd?” 😉
Nothing against you, my American friends, but sometimes I have the feeling there is too much freedom (of choice) over there across the big pond. 😉

In Christ,
Esdra
The sad part is, what you are seeing in the FLDS comminities was going on in LDS communities, up until 1904 (when the practice was really bannned), and would still be going on today, if it weren’t for a very convenient “revelation” when faced with losing church property.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top