does the Orthodox church receive as much vitriol as the Catholic Church

[RKO]

I’m talking about not only negative perception in the secular media, but also the many hate groups out there that basically exist to hate the Catholic Chiurch.

www.vaticancrimes.com, Jack Chick, etc.

i would expect the number of “haters” toward orthodoxy to be proportionately lower, because the orthodox church is smaller. But do such groups exist? Any ideas why or why not?

 

[RyanBlack]

Well, there is a good bit of vitriol directed towards them by some of the posters who post here.

 

[RKO]

Well, there is a good bit of vitriol directed towards them by some of the posters who post here.

very true.

 

[benjohnson]

In my opinion, our good Orthodox brothers in Christ have endured much in the last 100 years that we need to keep in our minds.

In the last 100 years, the’ve been killed for their beliefs, had their churches burned down and had to go underground, had their children indoctrinated to ‘rat’ them out. We really should study the history of what happened to the Orthodox when secular governments took control and did their best to eradicate them.

 

[4givemeasinner]

I will say this. If I for some reason was not/could be catholic, I would be orthodox.

 

[RKO]

In my opinion, our good Orthodox brothers in Christ have endured much in the last 100 years that we need to keep in our minds.

In the last 100 years, the’ve been killed for their beliefs, had their churches burned down and had to go underground, had their children indoctrinated to ‘rat’ them out. We really should study the history of what happened to the Orthodox when secular governments took control and did their best to eradicate them.

No question. But I was asking more about current day problems.

 

[Monergistic]

I’m talking about not only negative perception in the secular media, but also the many hate groups out there that basically exist to hate the Catholic Chiurch.

www.vaticancrimes.com, Jack Chick, etc.

i would expect the number of “haters” toward orthodoxy to be proportionately lower, because the orthodox church is smaller. But do such groups exist? Any ideas why or why not?

Well, look at who it is that the Eastern Orthodox mostly exist alongside. Not many Protestants, not many Catholics either- it’s been mostly Muslims. Catholics, otoh, mostly exist alongside a combination of Protestants and non-religious people. Atheists, agnostics, and the spiritually lazy who don’t bother with it too much.

So I want to submit a rephrasing of the question. Who is less kind to their Apostolic neighbors- Muslims in general, or some combination of Protestants and the non-religious? These are very different situations, and sometimes it depends on when and where you look at. With the exception of a situation like Ireland, Catholics have nothing to compare to the way that Muslims tend to generate life-threatening situations and/or mass displacement of Orthodox Christians for fear of their lives. So I’d say it also depends on how much vitriol you choose to ascribe to that compared to something like an offensive comic strip.

Edit- I suppose there has been a substantial amount of interaction between EO Christians and atheist/secular/Communist governments. So that gives you more of an apples to apples comparison as well.

 

[RKO]

I will say this. If I for some reason was not/could be catholic, I would be orthodox.

not to derail my own thread, but i am currently discerning whether I fit better in orthodoxy. I don’t think many of us, at least in the west, know enough about it to truly appreciate this ancient, beautiful religion.

 

[4givemeasinner]

not to derail my own thread, but i am currently discerning whether I fit better in orthodoxy. I don’t think many of us, at least in the west, know enough about it to truly appreciate this ancient, beautiful religion.

I’ve had similar thoughts tbh.

 

[RKO]

Well, look at who it is that the Eastern Orthodox mostly exist alongside. Not many Protestants, not many Catholics either- it’s been mostly Muslims. Catholics, otoh, mostly exist alongside a combination of Protestants and non-religious people. Atheists, agnostics, and the spiritually lazy who don’t bother with it too much.

So I want to submit a rephrasing of the question. Who is less kind to their Apostolic neighbors- Muslims in general, or some combination of Protestants and the non-religious? These are very different situations, and sometimes it depends on when and where you look at. With the exception of a situation like Ireland, Catholics have nothing to compare to the way that Muslims tend to generate life-threatening situations and/or mass displacement of Orthodox Christians for fear of their lives. So I’d say it also depends on how much vitriol you choose to ascribe to that compared to something like an offensive comic strip.

Edit- I suppose there has been a substantial amount of interaction between EO Christians and atheist/secular/Communist governments. So that gives you more of an apples to apples comparison as well.

Way to drop a bad vibe on my little thread. Yes, trust me when I say I have done the research and I know the troubles that the orthodox have just trying to exist in their regions. I was only asking what I now know was a dumb question…:imsorry:

 

[po18guy]

Short answer: basically, no.

 

[Steveabrous]

not to derail my own thread, but i am currently discerning whether I fit better in orthodoxy. I don’t think many of us, at least in the west, know enough about it to truly appreciate this ancient, beautiful religion.

As many have said the vitriol and hatred they have incurred has been at the hands of Atheist governments and Muslims. Both groups hate all Christianity. The Orthodox Christians just happen to be the ones they could persecute. We should be cautious since they are starting to come over here.

As far as the hatred from groups such as Jack chick and other professional anti-Catholics I would say no. Anti- Catholics are protestant Christians for the most part and the orthodox groups never had a revolt against their authority like we did. All Christians that are not catholic or orthodox come from the protestant revolt who’s hatred has always been directed at Rome.

It sounds like you are considering this move because you are tired of the ridicule that comes with being Catholic. Remember Christ said that the world hated him first, so they will hate us. Jesus wants us to take up our cross and follow him, not look for another way.
Also you would be giving up the Pope who is infalibley guided by the Holy spirit.

I believe it is normal for Catholics to become fascinated with our orthodox brothers. I know I was at one point. In my opinion the orthodox are good people. However, they seem to be very ethnic oriented. Are you Russian? If not you really wont fit in to a Russian orthodox church. Same with Greek, etc. they do have a Pan orthodox church which accepts all ethnicities, but it’s a little wierd to me that they have to go out of their way to say so.
They seem to seclude themselves and dwell on perceived autrocities committed by Roman Catholics centuries ago. Just have a conversation with one and it will come up.

 

[RKO]

It sounds like you are considering this move because you are tired of the ridicule that comes with being Catholic. Remember Christ said that the world hated him first, so they will hate us. Jesus wants us to take up our cross and follow him, not look for another way.
Also you would be giving up the Pope who is infalibley guided by the Holy spirit.

I believe it is normal for Catholics to become fascinated with our orthodox brothers. I know I was at one point. In my opinion the orthodox are good people. However, they seem to be very ethnic oriented. Are you Russian? If not you really wont fit in to a Russian orthodox church. Same with Greek, etc. they do have a Pan orthodox church which accepts all ethnicities, but it’s a little wierd to me that they have to go out of their way to say so.
They seem to seclude themselves and dwell on perceived autrocities committed by Roman Catholics centuries ago. Just have a conversation with one and it will come up.

Absolutely NOT the case. i come from a southern, bible-belt area in which Catholics are very much the minority. Lots of prejudgment and stereotyping. In the face of that, I wear my Catholicity as a badge of honor. I am just struggling with several things. Mostly original sin, but I’ll save that discussion for another thread. And there are a couple orthodox parishes in my area. one is greek and very ethnic. The other is Antiochian and is very diverse and Pan- Orthodox. You make an interesting point about their “dwelling” on atrocities committed by the Catholic church. I find that to be the case in web forums, but not in the churches. Much like I find a LOT more Catholic fundamentalism on forums than I do in a church.

 

[MarcoPolo]

not to derail my own thread, but i am currently discerning whether I fit better in orthodoxy. I don’t think many of us, at least in the west, know enough about it to truly appreciate this ancient, beautiful religion.

In discerning, may I recommend not viewing it as “where I fit”? That can lead to the way some people first figure out what they want in a religion and then go find one that is made in their image. Rather, the goal should be where is the truth - that’s where everyone should go.

To answer your question, as to sheer volume, presumably worldwide Catholics are attacked more from having the larger population. Although I am sure in eastern nations, Orthodox take the brunt quite a bit. If you are trying to discern which is better fulfilling the prophecy of being persecuted in Christ’s name, you could argue both. Both Churches have apostolic succession and valid Eucharist. The Evil One isn’t going to ignore one in exclusive favor of the other.

 

[shawnbm]

I concur that the answer is NO–particularly if the question is posed as occurring within North America or Western Europe. Part of the reason is basic ignorance of Orthodoxy in toto, while the more educated about such matters use the Orthodox as a group against which they try and take Catholicism to task; i.e., no pontiff, it being perceived as less “legalistic” and having not been involved in inquisitions/Crusades (all of which stems from ignorance of history), and its priests not being bound to celibacy for the sake of the Church.

The more educated–who are the ones who really spew the vitriol in my view–have an ax to grind against the Catholic Church and they like to use the Orthodox as being a better example of the ancient catholic and apostolic Church, without a pontiff, when priests had families and with no meddling in social norms of the present modernist age. Of course, Orthodoxy stands with Catholicism in lambasting relativist, licentious morality in “the West” and in rejecting sole fide, sola scriptura and embracing the sacramental life.

So, they receive far less attack, as the cafeteria Catholic-bashers only wish to mention what they perceive as the good in Orthodoxy and leave out that the Orthodox will likewise not let the non-Orthodox receive communion, will not sanction living as an active homosexual, let alone same sex marriage, will not approve of heterosexuals engaging in premarital sex outside the bounds of holy matrimony, will not embrace fundamentalist Protestantism, will not ordain women to the priesthood and other things. They do not wish to acknowledge that the Catholics and Orthodox are far closer in line with one another and the ancient catholic and apostolic faith than the smug liberal Protestantism of North America and Western Europe. They only want to highlight differences and then use those differences to paint the Catholic Church as rigid, narrow-minded and intolerant–when the Orthodox agree with Catholicism on all that is so dear to Western liberalism in its 21st century form.

P.S. What the Orthodox in Eastern Europe, Africa and the Middle East have had to go through these past 100 years is nothing short of tragic and heart-rending. Our Orthodox brethren need our prayers and help. I tend to believe Rome stands ready and willing to help in any way she can. Vivat Jesus!

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m talking about not only negative perception in the secular media, but also the many hate groups out there that basically exist to hate the Catholic Chiurch.

www.vaticancrimes.com, Jack Chick, etc.

i would expect the number of “haters” toward orthodoxy to be proportionately lower, because the orthodox church is smaller. But do such groups exist? Any ideas why or why not?

Not in North America where Orthodoxy is either seen as a folk religion (as the words used by some CAF members) or simply that people are just unaware of us. But in Eastern Europe, yeah. An EO and OO bishop was kidnapped last month in Syria. Christians in the Middle East are taking the brunt of this so called Arab Spring. The thing what most Americans do not understand about balance of power is that dictators usually bring about some stability to a region. It may not be the good kind of stability, but there is stability. They don’t want their own people fighting and creating chaos, because that is bad for their own rule. Sure, they’ll probably mass murder some dissidents, but they want to bring stability. Now, the US has been acting like GI Joe and toppling these “repressive” regimes. But that just entirely destabilizes the country. And the biggest losers are the Christian minority. Different Muslim groups want to take control of their countries and want their own brand of rule and law. They hate each other, but they have one thing in common and that is they hate the Christians as much. So you get all these murders and bombings and kidnappings of Christians all around the Middle East. And you hardly hear about it here in North America. Here, the media propaganda is that we’ve helped bring hope to the people there by taking out this notorious dictator. Christians were safer in Iraq under Saddam. One of his top guys was Chaldean Catholic. Now without him Christians are just being slaughtered left and right.

 

[Steveabrous]

You make an interesting point about their “dwelling” on atrocities committed by the Catholic church. I find that to be the case in web forums, but not in the churches. Much like I find a LOT more Catholic fundamentalism on forums than I do in a church.

Yes, I admit that the vast majority of contact with orthodox Christians I’ve had is through web forums. although my children went to Catholic school (both graduated recently). A few years ago a Greek orthodox priest came to visit. My daughter said he kept bringing these “autrocities” up, particularly the seige of Constantinople. He admitted that the Orthodox churches had commited autrocities against us, but that ours were worse.

I was interested in Orthodoxy not to convert but as equal brothers. As the Catholic church says they are as much the original church as us, their sacraments are valid, valid apostolic succession, etc… I quickly found that the feeling was not mutual.

The general concenses I got from Orthodox Christians was:

• everything is our fault (the split)
• Every dispute we ever had, ever we were wrong and they were right.
• they and they alone are the true church. we left and Apostized (although our Patriarch is still the prime Patriarch. Still can’t quite figure that one out).
• Their communion is valid, ours is not
• The bishop of Rome being the prime Patriarch was honorary only.
• They just seem to have a massive chip on their shoulder.

I always approached them as brothers and they wouldn’t have any part of it. They keeped wanting to bring up the old arguments, centuries old. My feeling is get over it.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The general concenses I got from Orthodox Christians was:

• everything is our fault (the split)

This is very common from Orthodox who came from countries who were actual victims of such acts. It’s pretty common, although unchristian to hold onto a gripe for so long. But you have nations who hate one another because of some war centuries ago where one conquered the other. People today still hate each other.

• Every dispute we ever had, ever we were wrong and they were right.

Happens on both sides of the fence. When people find out I converted from Catholicism to Orthodoxy, some would debate the Papacy with me. They bring in this version of history where all the Popes could do no wrong. Every charge has an excuse as to why it’s not the Pope’s fault. So this attitude happens at both ends.

What encourages me is that many Orthodox, especially those who were already removed from the traditional lands where the issues were committed and are still felt to this day, they have been upfront and honest about the problems on both sides.

• they and they alone are the true church. we left and Apostized (although our Patriarch is still the prime Patriarch. Still can’t quite figure that one out).

Well, the RC claims that as well. I mean, if we believe we’re both true Churches, why aren’t we united? Also why don’t we let our people attend Liturgy at the other Church? Obviously in practice both sides believe that the other side is not as perfectly the True Church as themself.

• Their communion is valid, ours is not

We do not speculate on Sacraments that do not belong to our Church. But we also do not allow Orthodox Christians to receive Communion from anyone other than Orthodox Churches.

• The bishop of Rome being the prime Patriarch was honorary only.

That is the fact that we subscribe to.

• They just seem to have a massive chip on their shoulder.

Again, same can be said of RCs. You probably do not see it because you are on the same side. But once you are on the other side of the fence, you will see how triumphalist the most vocal Catholics are. I’m just being honest here with what I have observed.

 

[Steveabrous]

This is very common from Orthodox who came from countries who were actual victims of such acts. It’s pretty common, although unchristian to hold onto a gripe for so long. But you have nations who hate one another because of some war centuries ago where one conquered the other. People today still hate each other.

I can see that

Happens on both sides of the fence. When people find out I converted from Catholicism to Orthodoxy, some would debate the Papacy with me. They bring in this version of history where all the Popes could do no wrong. Every charge has an excuse as to why it’s not the Pope’s fault. So this attitude happens at both ends.

again, I can see that

What encourages me is that many Orthodox, especially those who were already removed from the traditional lands where the issues were committed and are still felt to this day, they have been upfront and honest about the problems on both sides.

Very good

Well, the RC claims that as well. I mean, if we believe we’re both true Churches, why aren’t we united? Also why don’t we let our people attend Liturgy at the other Church? Obviously in practice both sides believe that the other side is not as perfectly the True Church as themself.

The RCC line on the matter is that we are both the one church. The one church split and now is two. You and us. I have never in 20 years heard anything else from the Catholic side. Also In me sunday missel it says that members of the Orthodox churches are allowed to take communion.

That is the fact that we subscribe to.

obviously we are not going to agree on this

 

[ConstantineTG]

The RCC line on the matter is that we are both the one church. The one church split and now is two. You and us. I have never in 20 years heard anything else from the Catholic side. Also In me sunday missel it says that members of the Orthodox churches are allowed to take communion.

This is a case of “thanks but no thanks.” I mean, Anglicans allow you to receive Communion from them, would you? That is how we feel about this offer.

For us being one Church means being one mind, that is we are in agreement of all the essential doctrines Obviously we don’t, so we can’t say we are the one Church. We agree that we both have Apostolic origin, and for the most part have preserved the Apostolic traditions. But there are differences and they are very important.