Absolutely NOT
I don’t think we’ll find one and who cares? The name was adopted after the split, although we see in councils and writings of the fathers, the word orthodoxy or orthodox used often.
Don’t worry, I know all the sentences used from the fathers for Roman Catholic apologetics. Was big into it myself once.
And you ask any Orthodox Christian and they believe themselves to be the “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.”
It’s true - we do!
Point being, “Split” from Peter, is the key. That’s why I gave the references I did. That’s all I’m required to do.steve-b:
I don’t think we’ll find oneand who cares? The name was adopted after the split , although we see in councils and writings of the fathers, the word orthodoxy or orthodox used often.
They (the Fathers) are Catholic.
Melkite Bp emeritus Elya in a Q/A wrote Re: Catholic and Orthodox
Thank goodness you don’t serve on the Orthodox/Catholic commissions and committees that are working through the issues that presently separate us. Despite our frailties, I have full faith we will, in time, return to full communion in way that is neither, “submit to Rome!” nor “repent of your papist heresies!”
Seems the Orthodox aren’t having success keeping their own ranks in communion. http://www.ncregister.com/daily-new...an-orthodox-church-splits-from-constantinoplesteve-b:
Thank goodness you don’t serve on the Orthodox/Catholic commissions and committees that are working through the issues that presently separate us. Despite our frailties, I have full faith we will, in time, return to full communion in way that is neither, “submit to Rome!” nor “repent of your papist heresies!”
Saint Irenaeus’ refutation of the heretics is that the Church has a perpetual succession of bishops. He then lists as an example Saint Peter’s successors. That makes sense since Rome was founded “by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul . . .”
It takes two to tango. Both sides are at fault.
Funny, I know two Orthodox priests that would say they are Orthodox. As a Byzantine Catholic I listen to Ancient Faith Radio and they have a great podcast on Sts. Ignatius and Irenaeus. You should check it out! Don’t worry, you won’t become Orthodox because of it
As I noted in another thread, he was very latinized. Have you read or heard any of the current Melkite Bishops work? Love his stuff and Rome is not coming down on him.
I know many traditional Catholics that would say the same about what is presently happening in the Catholic Church since Vatican II (their opinion, not mine). But I do agree that communion with Rome is important and in particular with issues like this that occur. This is why I am in communion with Rome.
Yes, apostolic succession of bishops is one point proven in Irenaeus example. The other point that you missed, in Irenaeus point is one bishop, in particular, which he names 12 from Peter down to Irenaeus day, is the successor to Peter. Making the Church of Rome the Church with preeminent authoritry over all the others.steve-b:
Saint Irenaeus’ refutation of the heretics is that the Church has a perpetual succession of bishops. He then lists as an example Saint Peter’s successors. That makes sense since Rome was founded “by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul . . .”
And the one who left Peter has to return.
ziapueble:
Here’s your chance. Prove his point that they are “Orthodox”.Funny, I know two Orthodox priests that would say they are Orthodox. As a Byzantine Catholic I listen to Ancient Faith Radio and they have a great podcast on Sts. Ignatius and Irenaeus. You should check it out! Don’t worry, you won’t become Orthodox because of it
ziapuebo:
And that disqualifies him in your mind? It makes him 100% Catholic as he said.
I can’t find any article about that, do you remember which publication?
A person who refuses submission to the Roman Pontiff, is at least a material schismatic. It was thus common in the past to speak of the schismatic Orthodox Churches who broke with Rome in 1054. As with heresy, we no longer assume the moral culpability of those who belong to Churches in schism from Rome, and thus no long refer to them as schismatics…
I would just like to note that it s not your purview to incarcerate these persons (thanks be to God!).
Perhaps you would be less likely to judge if you lived in the Ukraine or Syria, or other countries where Christians are persecuted. They fight just to hang on to what was passed down to them in their sacred traditions. It is easy for us, who can sit in front of our screens and locate pretty much any info we want with little or no monetary or personal cost.
https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcas...._irenaeus_against_heresies_book_three_part_1
I never said he wasn’t Catholic.
That’s why we are to go out and educate people.
Is my name on Gal 5:19-21, or Rom 16:17-21? No. Nor any of the other references I quoted
Irenaeus is a Catholic bishop and saint. Summarize for me the podcaststeve-b:
https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcas...._irenaeus_against_heresies_book_three_part_1
Listen for yourself
Schism is still in place. Peter doesn’t split from himself. Since this is about authority, and primacy of authority, which Jesus already settled that argument in the upper room, the Orthodox need to accept the primacy of Peter’s successor.
steve-b:
guanophore:
Popes ordain all kinds of bishops in their time. Does that make everyone of those bishops a successor to the pope who ordained them? Nope!
- A bishop’s see is where he IS not where he WAS.
- “Where Peter is there is the Church”. quote from Cyprian
- Peter’s last see is Rome. And Peter is buried under the altar at St Peter’s cathedral.
Your name is on the conclusion/judgment you made. “they are culpable”. This requires that one know the soul of another.
This is a risky business for human beings. It has caused Christians killing Jews, Christians killing each other, Muslims killing Christians and vice versa. The presumption that human beings have to evaluate others and find them wanting has some serious negative consequences.
He’s also considered an Orthodox bishop and saint by the Orthodox. We venerate the same saints and we share the same apostolic succession. What’s your point? I haven’t listened to the entire podcast just bits and pieces while making lunch in the morning for my wife and daughter (I’m wanting to listen to the entire series) but it’s basically a summary of his letter. You’d probably agree with most of what these podcasters are talking about.
Honestly, steve-b, this possessive attitude is unbecoming. He was a Greek Catholic as well! Since there was no schism at the time, naturally he is honored as a bishop and saint by the Eastern Christians as well.
If only this were true! Perhaps this is a good time to reflect on the reality of anti-popes throughout history. The Latin Church has also been plagued with issues around papal “authority”. It was Papal corruption and overstepping authority that precipitated the Reformation.
Yes, in part, but it started with the filoque.