Does the RCC teach that non-Catholic Christians are anathema?

[jlhargus]

You made reference to"those who gladly received His word were baptized", this is scriptural, however the RCC will baptize baby’s, who cannot receive his word, this is RC teaching.

JL: I not mistaken even today MOST Protestants baptize infants. [Acts2:37 Now WHEN THEY HEARD this, THEY WERE PRICKED IN THEIR HEART, AND SAID unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO? 38 Then PETER SAID unto them, **REPENT, and BE BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, and ye shall RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST. THE PROMISE IS UNTO YOU, AND TO YOUR CHILDREN, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.]

The PROMISE is the Holy Spirit, indwelling the soul, which is eternal life The word for children is teknon. Teknon would be children from infant up, We see the same word teknon (children) used in Act21:21 in reference to circumcision, we know infants were circumcised at 8 days old. The promise is to adults and to THEIR children. These were Jews of the diaspora, they all understood that children were brought into God’s covenant on the basis of the parents faith. Children have no sin of which to repent, they LACK the Holy Spirit, their faith is the faith of their parent.

The PROMISE is to those PRESENT and far away. There were three thousand PRESENT, who where baptized and the odds that whole families (households) where PRESENT and baptized can’t be refuted. Also notice those baptized RECEIVE the GIFT of the HOLY GHOST. Are we born with the GIFT of the HOLY GHOST or of flesh only? Wasn’t that GIFT, of the Holy Ghost, lost for ALL humanity by Adam’s original sin?

Gn17:14 And THE UNCIRCUMCISED MAN CHILD whose flesh of his foreskin is NOT CIRCUMCISED, that soul SHALL BE CUT OFF FROM HIS PEOPLE; he hath broken my covenant.] Circumcision is a foreshadowing of baptism. Baptism fulfills, circumcision and brings an infant or adult into covenant family relationship with the people of God, otherwise they are cut off from their people. [In the OT women were ALWAYS under the guardian protection or covenant household of a male.]

When a Gentile adult converted to Judaism he had to believe, repent, be circumcised. Yet infants were brought into the people of God, old covenant on the merits of it’s parents or guardians faith, just as in the new covenant. Circumcision was an outward sign only it did not give grace or the indwelling Holy Spirit as THE SACRAMENT of BAPTISM does.

In baptism I am complete in Christ, I am circumcised, forgiven all trespasses, [Col2:10 And YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 IN WHOM also YE ARE CIRCUMCISED with the CIRCUMCISION MADE WITHOUT HANDS, in PUTTING OFF THE BODY OF THE SINS OF THE FLESH by the CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST 12 BURIED WITH HIM **IN BAPTISM, wherein also ye are RISEN WITH HIM THROUGH the FAITH of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES.]

Eph 4:4 There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in ONE HOPE of your calling; 5 ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, 6 ONE GOD and Father of all, who is ABOVE ALL, and THROUGH ALL, and IN YOU ALL. It is though baptism God indwell his people. [Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord.]

Phil 3:3 For WE ARE THE CIRCUMCISION, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

[1Jn 1:12 But AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, to them GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME THE SONS OF GOD, even to them THAT BELIEVE on his name: 13 WHICH WERE BORN, NOT OF BLOOD, NOR of the will of THE FLESH, NOR of the WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD.] Those who receive Him, He gives the power to become sons of God through baptism.

[Gal 3:26 For **YE ARE all the CHILDREN OF GOD by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For AS MANY of you AS HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED into Christ HAVE PUT ON CHRIST.] If we put on Christ then we are IN CHRIST and a NEW CREATURE.

2Cor5:17 Therefore IF ANY MAN BE IN CHRIST, HE IS A NEW CREATURE: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

There are many things that are taught by the RCC which are not scriptural. Purgatory, the Tabernacle on earth (in the RCC),man forgiving sins, salvation by baptism, praying to the “saints” or Mary, or whoever, instead of praying through Christ, as Jesus said Himself in His word, praying for the dead, and so many more things that cannot be found in the Bible. I believe the one you call the “first” pope, Peter, would roll over in his grave if he could see the situation in the RCC now, with all the Cardinals, the Pope in his bulletproof vehicle, the pomp and ceremony, all the riches, and of course the scandals, which a lot of churches are subject too, that poor fisherman would be aghast and not recognize any of it as being authentic. Scripture is the only way to go. May I suggest to you that you read Rev 22:6-21 and see what God has to say about adding or taking away from the prophecy of this book. In Christian love. Ralph

JL: I could answer the rest but i’m finished for the night. I see sour grapes here anyway. if you want to start another line with any of the above topics let me know. I’m done for the night.

 

[ralphy]

JL: I not mistaken even today MOST Protestants baptize infants. [Acts2:37 Now WHEN THEY HEARD this, THEY WERE PRICKED IN THEIR HEART, AND SAID unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO? 38 Then PETER SAID unto them, **REPENT

, and BE BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, and ye shall RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST. THE PROMISE IS UNTO YOU, AND TO YOUR CHILDREN, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.]

The PROMISE is the Holy Spirit, indwelling the soul, which is eternal life The word for children is teknon. Teknon would be children from infant up, We see the same word teknon (children) used in Act21:21 in reference to circumcision, we know infants were circumcised at 8 days old. The promise is to adults and to THEIR children. These were Jews of the diaspora, they all understood that children were brought into God’s covenant on the basis of the parents faith. Children have no sin of which to repent, they LACK the Holy Spirit, their faith is the faith of their parent.

The PROMISE is to those PRESENT and far away. There were three thousand PRESENT, who where baptized and the odds that whole families (households) where PRESENT and baptized can’t be refuted. Also notice those baptized RECEIVE the GIFT of the HOLY GHOST. Are we born with the GIFT of the HOLY GHOST or of flesh only? Wasn’t that GIFT, of the Holy Ghost, lost for ALL humanity by Adam’s original sin?

Gn17:14 And THE UNCIRCUMCISED MAN CHILD whose flesh of his foreskin is NOT CIRCUMCISED, that soul SHALL BE CUT OFF FROM HIS PEOPLE; he hath broken my covenant.] Circumcision is a foreshadowing of baptism. Baptism fulfills, circumcision and brings an infant or adult into covenant family relationship with the people of God, otherwise they are cut off from their people. [In the OT women were ALWAYS under the guardian protection or covenant household of a male.]

When a Gentile adult converted to Judaism he had to believe, repent, be circumcised. Yet infants were brought into the people of God, old covenant on the merits of it’s parents or guardians faith, just as in the new covenant. Circumcision was an outward sign only it did not give grace or the indwelling Holy Spirit as THE SACRAMENT of BAPTISM does.

In baptism I am complete in Christ, I am circumcised, forgiven all trespasses, [Col2:10 And YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 IN WHOM also YE ARE CIRCUMCISED with the CIRCUMCISION MADE WITHOUT HANDS, in PUTTING OFF THE BODY OF THE SINS OF THE FLESH by the CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST 12 BURIED WITH HIM **IN BAPTISM, wherein also ye are RISEN WITH HIM THROUGH the FAITH of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES.]

Eph 4:4 There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in ONE HOPE of your calling; 5 ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, 6 ONE GOD and Father of all, who is ABOVE ALL, and THROUGH ALL, and IN YOU ALL. It is though baptism God indwell his people. [Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord.]

Phil 3:3 For WE ARE THE CIRCUMCISION, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

[1Jn 1:12 But AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, to them GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME THE SONS OF GOD, even to them THAT BELIEVE on his name: 13 WHICH WERE BORN, NOT OF BLOOD, NOR of the will of THE FLESH, NOR of the WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD.] Those who receive Him, He gives the power to become sons of God through baptism.

[Gal 3:26 For **YE ARE all the CHILDREN OF GOD by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For AS MANY of you AS HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED into Christ HAVE PUT ON CHRIST.] If we put on Christ then we are IN CHRIST and a NEW CREATURE.

2Cor5:17 Therefore IF ANY MAN BE IN CHRIST, HE IS A NEW CREATURE: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

JL: I could answer the rest but i’m finished for the night. I see sour grapes here anyway. if you want to start another line with any of the above topics let me know. I’m done for the night. You know my friend, you are way out in left field on this baptism question, and I believe that you know this, but you will not give in to scripture. I do not know of any Protestant church who baptize infants, however I am sure that there are some that do. I will also say to them also that they are not following scripture. Peter in Acts told them about Christ dying on Calvary,which they understood, and were “pricked” in their hearts and did not know what to do, seeing that they believed what he said, then they “repented” in their hearts (receiving Christ),and then were baptized. Babies do not understand this at such a young age, so baptism for them does not mean a thing. You did give a lot of scripture, however, you missed or overlooked the main point of hearing and believing,and then repenting. By the way, water cannot wash away your sins, so baptism will not remove sin, only the Blood of Christ can do this. I do not know how to start another topic, however I would be glad to participate in one if you started one. In christian love, Ralph.

 

[PRmerger]

You know my friend, you are way out in left field on this baptism question, and I believe that you know this, but you will not give in to scripture.

Actually, what you mean is, he will not “give in to your interpretation of Scripture”.

For there are many, many Christian denominations that have many, many different interpretations of Scripture, specifically regarding baptism.

Some agree with the CC that it is a sacrament.
Some call it an ordinance.
Some say it’s just an outward profession of your faith.
Some say it does nothing but make you wet.
Some say it must be done in a river.
Some say it must be done “just like Jesus” did.
Some say it must be done by immersion.

And these different viewpoints come from reading the very same Scriptures that everyone else uses (ok, give or take 7 books )

So, you see, Ralphy, it’s ridiculous to say someone doesn’t “give in to Scripture”, for what Scripture actually says on a particular issue is up for lots and lots of interpretations.

Your fallible, non-authoritative, non-binding interpretation is just one of many.

Unless you’re claiming that your interpretation is infallible?

 

[PRmerger]

By the way, water cannot wash away your sins, so baptism will not remove sin, only the Blood of Christ can do this.

This is a false dichotomy.

It is indeed the Blood of Christ which atones for our sins.

 

[ralphy]

Actually, what you mean is, he will not “give in to your interpretation of Scripture”.

For there are many, many Christian denominations that have many, many different interpretations of Scripture, specifically regarding baptism.

Some agree with the CC that it is a sacrament.
Some call it an ordinance.
Some say it’s just an outward profession of your faith.
Some say it does nothing but make you wet.
Some say it must be done in a river.
Some say it must be done “just like Jesus” did.
Some say it must be done by immersion.

And these different viewpoints come from reading the very same Scriptures that everyone else uses (ok, give or take 7 books )

So, you see, Ralphy, it’s ridiculous to say someone doesn’t “give in to Scripture”, for what Scripture actually says on a particular issue is up for lots and lots of interpretations.

Your fallible, non-authoritative, non-binding interpretation is just one of many.

Unless you’re claiming that your interpretation is infallible?

I do not think that I am infallible. That claim is laid on the teaching of the RCC, they teach that the Pope is infallible, and I am sorry , I cannot accept that teaching. Let me ask you then, why would the RCC baptize babies, if it is only the Blood of Jesus Christ that will take away sin. What I can understand from reading scripture is that baptism is a public show or confession of receiving Christ as personal Savior. I also believe that baptism should be done by immersion, just as Christ was baptized by John, which reflects a “burial and resurrection” out of the water. You mentioned my so called “authority”, my friend I have none on my own, the word of God is the only authority I use. One must be born again to enter heaven, that is born from above. In Christian love, Ralph.

 

[PRmerger]

I do not think that I am infallible.

I didn’t think so.

So, if you’re fallible, you’re going to be wrong in your interpretation of Scripture. In fact, chances are, in all the posts you’ve made, you’ve been wrong at least once.

I won’t put my faith in your interpretation, but on the one that claims it came from the Apostles, and claims to be infallible.

(Unless you’re claiming that your fallible interpretations of Scripture come from the Apostles?)

Seems to be the prudent thing to do, yes?

 

[ralphy]

I didn’t think so.

So, if you’re fallible, you’re going to be wrong in your interpretation of Scripture. In fact, chances are, in all the posts you’ve made, you’ve been wrong at least once.

I won’t put my faith in your interpretation, but on the one that claims it came from the Apostles, and claims to be infallible.

(Unless you’re claiming that your fallible interpretations of Scripture come from the Apostles?)

Seems to be the prudent thing to do, yes?

I am claiming that I am fallible, but I am also claiming that the word of God which I use comes from Him, who is infallible. His word is truth, and can I assume that you believe that the Bible is the word of God. In Christian love. Ralph

 

[PRmerger]

I am claiming that I am fallible, but I am also claiming that the word of God which I use comes from Him, who is infallible. His word is truth, and can I assume that you believe that the Bible is the word of God. In Christian love. Ralph

But there’s another fallible Christian out there who’s saying something completely different, yet claiming his interpretation is based on the word of God.

This other fallible Christian says that Baptism is an ordinance. (Scripture verses will be cited to prove his point)
Or that baptism must be done in a river. (Scripture verses will be cited to prove his point)
Or that baptism is an outward sign of an interior profession. (Scripture verses will be cited to prove his point)

So, because of your fallibility, there’s now 30,000 different interpretations of what God is telling Christians. (Scripture verses will be cited to prove their point).

This is a paradigm created in the depths of hell, IMHO.

And you’ve fallen for it, Ralphy. :sad_yes:

 

[momtoo]

You might like this… or not…I like it.

romereports.com/palio/Paintings-and-water-found-at-the-prison-where-St-Peter-was-believed-to-have-been-held-english-2554.html

 

[jlhargus]

You know my friend, you are way out in left field on this baptism question, and I believe that you know this, but you will not give in to scripture.

JL: I notice you didn’t post any of those scriptures, which you say I do not give into, show me?

I do not know of any Protestant church who baptize infants, however I am sure that there are some that do. I will also say to them also that they are not following scripture.

JL: Which scriptures are they not following? Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian are those Protestants, I know for sure, who baptize infants there may be more.

Peter in Acts told them about Christ dying on Calvary,which they understood, and were “pricked” in their hearts and did not know what to do, seeing that they believed what he said, then they “repented” in their hearts (receiving Christ),and then were baptized.

JL: Is that what the scriptures say? [Acts2:37 Now WHEN THEY HEARD this, THEY WERE PRICKED IN THEIR HEART, AND SAID unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO? 38 Then PETER SAID unto them, **REPENT, and BE BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, and ye shall RECEIVE the gift of THE HOLY GHOST. **THE PROMISE IS UNTO YOU, AND TO YOUR CHILDREN, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.]

Scripture says WE RECEIVE, after baptism, the Holy Spirit, which cannot be separated from Christ or the Father. We cannot RECEIVE Christ in our hearts or soul until our sins have been remitted and washed away thru baptism.

[Gal 3:26 For YE ARE all the CHILDREN OF GOD by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For AS MANY of you AS HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED into Christ HAVE PUT ON CHRIST.] Scripture tells us we are a child of God and **put on Christ, ** thru the sacrament of BAPTISM. So according to scripture the order would be, first believe (faith), repent, be baptized FOR remission of sins, RECEIVE the Holy Spirit. You hold a tradition of men not found in scripture.

 

[jlhargus]

Babies do not understand this at such a young age, so baptism for them does not mean a thing. You did give a lot of scripture, however, you missed or overlooked the main point of hearing and believing,and then repenting.

JL: Did OT babies understand, before being brought into covenant family relationship with God and his people? Do you think God doesn’t want babies to be in relationship with him and his people in the new covenant? Ask yourselve are children auto BORN AGAIN by water AND of the Spirit at birth? [Jn3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God]. Are children born of flesh only? [Jn3: 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.] Why are children of unbelievers UNCLEAN? Why are children of belivers CLEAN? [1Cor7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: ELSE were your CHILDREN UNCLEAN; but now are they holy]. [LK18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, SUFFER LITTLE CHILDDREN TO COME UNTO ME, and FORBID THEM NOT: for OF SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD]. If children are of the kingdom, then who can forbid water that they be baptized and brought into that kingdom?

By the way, water cannot wash away your sins, so baptism will not remove sin, only the Blood of Christ can do this.

JL: [Acts22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord.]

[Rv1:5 And from JESUS CHRIST, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and WASHED US FROM OUR INS IN HIS OWN BLOOD,] By water AND the Spirit we are washed in the blood of Christ.

[1Pt3:21 The like figure whereunto even BAPTISM DOTH ALSO NOW SAVE US (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:]

**How are we saved by Christ’s mercy? How are we washed by Christ? How are we regenerated by Christ? How are we renewed of the Holy Ghost by Christ? **
[Titus:3:5 NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, **BUT according to HIS MERCY HE SAVED US, BY the WASHING OF ****REGENERATION, and RENEWING OF THE HOLY GHOST; 6 Which he SHED ON US abundantly THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOUR;]

**What is this washing, in the name of the Lord and in the Spirit of our God, that sanctifies and justifies us? **
1Cor6:11 And such were some of you: but YE ARE WASHED, but ye are SANCTIFIED, but ye are JUSTIFIED in the NAME of the Lord JESUS, AND by the SPIRIT OF OUR GOD.] With what do we wash? WATER and a cleaning agent (soap). We are baptized with WATER and the cleansing agent is the HOLY SPIRIT, who washes away our sins, regenerates our dead soul by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

How do we become MEMBERS of the ONE BODY of CHRIST? How do we drink of one Spirit?
[1Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For BY ONE SPIRIT ARE WE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been ALL MADE TO DRINK INTO ONE SPIRIT. 14 For THE BODY IS NOT ONE MEMBER, BUT MANY.]

**How are we crucified and die with Christ? ** How are we raised from the dead to new life with Christ? **How are we united or planted together with Christ? How is our old sinful self crucified with Christ, that we no longer be slaves to sin? **
[Rms 6:3 KNOW YE NOT, THAT so many of us as were BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST were BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH? 4 Therefore we are BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE. 5 For if we have been PLANTED TOGETHER IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH, we shall be ALSO IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS RESURRECTION: 6 Knowing this, that OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, that the body of sin might be destroyed, THAT henceforth WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.]

The following are OT prophesy of the sacrament of baptism.

Ez 36:24 FOR I WILL TAKE YOU FROM AMONG THE HEATHEN, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 THEN WILL I SPRINKLE CLEAN WATER UPON YOU, and YE SHALL BE CLEAN: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, I WILL CLEANSE YOU. 26 A NEW HEART also WILL I GIVE YOU, and A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU: and I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART out of your flesh, and I WILL GIVE YOU AN HEART OF FLESH. 27 And I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and YE SHALL KEEP MY JUDGMENTS, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and YE SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, and I WILL BE YOUR GOD.

Zech12:10 And I WILL POUR UPON THE HOUSE OF DAVID, and UPON THE INHABITANTS OF JERUSALEM, THE SPIRIT OF GRACE and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zech13:1 IN THAT DAY THERE SHALL BE A FOUNTAIN OPENED TO THE HOUSE OF DAVID and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem FOR SIN AND for UNCLEANNESS.

 

[jlhargus]

I do not know how to start another topic, however I would be glad to participate in one if you started one. In christian love, Ralph.

JL: I am going out of town in the morning for several days. To start a line, click on home at the top. Look for the category, such as Non-Catholic Religion. Click on Non-Catholic Religion or whatever category you want. At the top of the page on the left click on New Thread. Type in you subject and what ever else you want to say. In Christ JL

 

[ralphy]

JL: Did OT babies understand, before being brought into covenant family relationship with God and his people? Do you think God doesn’t want babies to be in relationship with him and his people in the new covenant? Ask yourselve are children auto BORN AGAIN by water AND of the Spirit at birth? [Jn3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God]. Are children born of flesh only? [Jn3: 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.] Why are children of unbelievers UNCLEAN? Why are children of belivers CLEAN? [1Cor7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: ELSE were your CHILDREN UNCLEAN; but now are they holy]. [LK18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, SUFFER LITTLE CHILDDREN TO COME UNTO ME, and FORBID THEM NOT: for OF SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD]. If children are of the kingdom, then who can forbid water that they be baptized and brought into that kingdom?

JL: [Acts22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord.]

[Rv1:5 And from JESUS CHRIST, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and WASHED US FROM OUR INS IN HIS OWN BLOOD,] By water AND the Spirit we are washed in the blood of Christ.

[1Pt3:21 The like figure whereunto even BAPTISM DOTH ALSO NOW SAVE US (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:]

**How are we saved by Christ’s mercy? How are we washed by Christ? How are we regenerated by Christ? How are we renewed of the Holy Ghost by Christ? **
[Titus:3:5 NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, **BUT

according to HIS MERCY HE SAVED US, BY the WASHING OF ****REGENERATION, and RENEWING OF THE HOLY GHOST; 6 Which he SHED ON US abundantly THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOUR;]

**What is this washing, in the name of the Lord and in the Spirit of our God, that sanctifies and justifies us? **
1Cor6:11 And such were some of you: but YE ARE WASHED, but ye are SANCTIFIED, but ye are JUSTIFIED in the NAME of the Lord JESUS, AND by the SPIRIT OF OUR GOD.] With what do we wash? WATER and a cleaning agent (soap). We are baptized with WATER and the cleansing agent is the HOLY SPIRIT, who washes away our sins, regenerates our dead soul by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

How do we become MEMBERS of the ONE BODY of CHRIST? How do we drink of one Spirit?
[1Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For BY ONE SPIRIT ARE WE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been ALL MADE TO DRINK INTO ONE SPIRIT. 14 For THE BODY IS NOT ONE MEMBER, BUT MANY.]

**How are we crucified and die with Christ? ** How are we raised from the dead to new life with Christ? **How are we united or planted together with Christ? How is our old sinful self crucified with Christ, that we no longer be slaves to sin? **
[Rms 6:3 KNOW YE NOT, THAT so many of us as were BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST were BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH? 4 Therefore we are BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE. 5 For if we have been PLANTED TOGETHER IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH, we shall be ALSO IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS RESURRECTION: 6 Knowing this, that OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, that the body of sin might be destroyed, THAT henceforth WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.]

The following are OT prophesy of the sacrament of baptism.

Ez 36:24 FOR I WILL TAKE YOU FROM AMONG THE HEATHEN, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 THEN WILL I SPRINKLE CLEAN WATER UPON YOU, and YE SHALL BE CLEAN: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, I WILL CLEANSE YOU. 26 A NEW HEART also WILL I GIVE YOU, and A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU: and I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART out of your flesh, and I WILL GIVE YOU AN HEART OF FLESH. 27 And I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and YE SHALL KEEP MY JUDGMENTS, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and YE SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, and I WILL BE YOUR GOD.

Zech12:10 And I WILL POUR UPON THE HOUSE OF DAVID, and UPON THE INHABITANTS OF JERUSALEM, THE SPIRIT OF GRACE and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zech13:1 IN THAT DAY THERE SHALL BE A FOUNTAIN OPENED TO THE HOUSE OF DAVID and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem FOR SIN AND for UNCLEANNESS. I believe that you have a problem with this water situation, baptism by water does not take away sin, only the Blood of Christ. If you do not believe this last statement, then why not baptize every person and get it over with, in that way everyone will go to heaven, right. The RCC teaches that when a child is baptized, they are ready for heaven, they are saved, this is not true, scripture tells a different story. One must be born again to enter heaven, and baptism does not make you born again. Eph 2:8,9 will tell you how to be saved. In Christian love, Ralph.

 

[ralphy]

Let me tell you something. When my mother who died at the age of 102 and came into the RCC in a coffin, the procession stopped at the back door, and the priest said she was saved by baptism. Can you explain that please. In Christian love, Ralph.

 

[ralphy]

I would just like to hear in a few words, just what baptizing a new born baby in the RCC means to anyone, the church, the parents, or the congregation,etc. I cannot find anything to support child baptism in scripture. Thank you. In Christian love, Ralph.

 

[PRmerger]

I would just like to hear in a few words, just what baptizing a new born baby in the RCC means to anyone, the church, the parents, or the congregation,etc.** I cannot find anything to support child baptism in scripture**. Thank you. In Christian love, Ralph.

If your pastor is among the thousands of pastors who tell their flock that it’s ok to use artificial birth control, then he’s doing something non-biblical.

For I cannot find anything to support the use of artificial birth control in Scripture.

Now, if your pastor is among the few that tells his flock that it’s wrong to use artificial birth control, then he’s also doing something non-bibilcal.

For I cannot find anything to support the condemnation of artificial birth control in Scripture.

That is, ralphy, you follow lots of things that are not supported in Scripture.

I wonder why you keep holding Catholics up to a standard that you yourself don’t hold.

 

[momtoo]

Here are some simple thoughts for you, Ralph.
Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist. Each person is born with the inner knowledge of God and so we must believe that even an infant would want to be baptized (intent). Also Ralph, every morning you wake up and decide to keep fighting against evil you are “reborn”. Every time we renew our baptismal vows (ie. during Mass) we are “reborn”.

Gently borrowed from:
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFINFAN.HTM

Both in the East and in the West the practice of baptizing infants is considered a rule of immemorial tradition. Origen, and later St. Augustine, considered it a “tradition received from the Apostles.” When the first direct evidence of infant Baptism appears in the second century, it is never presented as an innovation. St. Irenaeus, in particular, considers it a matter of course that the baptized should include “infants and small children” as well as adolescents, young adults and older people. The oldest known ritual, describing at the start of the third century the Apostolic Tradition, contains the following rule: “First baptize the children. Those of them who can speak for themselves should do so. The parents or someone of their family should speak for the others.” At a Synod of African Bishops, St. Cyprian stated that “God’s mercy and grace should not be refused to anyone born,” and the Synod, recalling that “all human beings” are “equal,” whatever be “their size or age,” declared it lawful to baptize children “by the second or third day after their birth.”
Admittedly there was a certain decline in the practice of infant Baptism during the fourth century. At that time even adults postponed their Christian initiation out of apprehension about future sins and fear of public penance, and many parents put off the Baptism of their children for the same reasons. But it must also be noted that Fathers and Doctors such as Basil, Gregory of Nyssa, Ambrose, John Chrysostom, Jerome and Augustine, who were themselves baptized as adults on account of this state of affairs, vigorously reacted against such negligence and begged adults not to postpone Baptism since it is necessary for salvation. Several of them insisted that Baptism should be administered to infants.
Popes and Councils also often intervened to remind Christians of their duty to have their children baptized.
At the close of the fourth century the ancient custom of baptizing children as well as adults “for the forgiveness of sins” was used against the teachings of Peladius. As Origen and St. Cyprian had noted, before St. Augustine, this custom confirmed the Church’s belief in original sin, and this in turn showed still more clearly the necessity of infant Baptism. There were interventions on these lines by Pope Siricius and Pope Innocent I. Later, the Council of Carthage in 418 condemned “whoever says that newborn infants should not be baptized,” and it taught that, on account of the Church’s “rule of faith” concerning original sin, “even babies, who are yet unable to commit any sin personally, are truly baptized for the forgiveness of sins, for the purpose of cleansing by rebirth what they have received by birth.”
This teaching was constantly reaffirmed and defended during the Middle Ages. In particular, the Council of Vienna in 1312 stressed that the sacrament of Baptism has for its effect, in the case of infants, not just the forgiveness of sins but also the granting of grace and the virtues. The Council of Florence in 1442 rebuked those who wanted Baptism postponed and declared that infants should receive “as soon as is convenient” (quam primum commode) the sacrament “through which they are rescued from the devil’s power and adopted as God’s children.”
The Church must respond to the mission that Christ gave to the Apostles after His resurrection. St. Matthew’s Gospel reports it in a particularly solemn form: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Transmitting the faith and administering Baptism are closely linked in this command of the Lord, and they are an integral part of the Church’s mission, which is universal and cannot cease to be universal.
(continued due to length)

 

[momtoo]

(continued due to length)
This is how the Church has understood her mission from the beginning, and not only with regard to adults. She has always understood the words of Jesus to Nicodemus to mean that “children should not be deprived of Baptism.” Jesus’ words are so universal and absolute in form that the Fathers employed them to establish the necessity of Baptism, and the Magisterium applied them expressly to infants; the sacrament is for them, too, entry into the People of God and the gateway to personal salvation.
The Church has thus shown by her teaching and practice that she knows no other way apart from Baptism for ensuring children’s entry into eternal happiness. Accordingly, she takes care not to neglect the mission that the Lord has given her of providing rebirth “of water and the Spirit” for all those who can be baptized. As for children who die without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to God’s mercy, as she does in the funeral rite provided for them.
The fact that infants cannot yet profess personal faith does not prevent the Church from conferring this sacrament on them, since in reality it is in her own faith that she baptizes them. This point of doctrine was clearly defined by Saint Augustine: “When children are presented to be given spiritual grace,” he wrote, "it is not so much those holding them in their arms who present them—although, if these people are good Christians, they are included among those who present the children—as the whole company of saints and faithful Christians… It is done by the whole of Mother Church which is in the saints, since it is as a whole that she gives birth to each and every one of them.”
This teaching is repeated by St. Thomas Aquinas and all the theologians after him: the child who is baptized believes not on its own account, by a personal act, but through others, “through the Church’s faith communicated to it.” This same teaching is also expressed in the new Rite of Baptism, when the celebrant asks the parents and godparents to profess the Faith of the Church, the Faith in which the children are baptized.

 

[PRmerger]

I would just like to hear in a few words, just what baptizing a new born baby in the RCC means to anyone, the church, the parents, or the congregation,etc

It makes him a “new creation”. As Fr. Vincent Serpa says, (paraphrasing): if we could look into the soul of the newly baptized to see what change has occurred in it through the Sacrament of Baptism, nuclear fission would appear as child’s play!" An indelible mark has been placed on his soul; he belongs to Christ now!

At baptism we are joined with Him in his death. The atoning sacrifice of Christ on the cross is applied to the baptized, making him a new creation, an “immaculate” soul, a regenerated individual.

How beautiful and sublime is that!!

Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world on the cross. However, we must “do” something in order to benefit from it. Otherwise, would not the entire world be saved right now?

That is, do you believe Muslims, Jews, atheists, etc, need not do anything, simply because of Christ’s atoning death 2000 years ago?

 

[ralphy]

(continued due to length)
This is how the Church has understood her mission from the beginning, and not only with regard to adults. She has always understood the words of Jesus to Nicodemus to mean that “children should not be deprived of Baptism.” Jesus’ words are so universal and absolute in form that the Fathers employed them to establish the necessity of Baptism, and the Magisterium applied them expressly to infants; the sacrament is for them, too, entry into the People of God and the gateway to personal salvation.
The Church has thus shown by her teaching and practice that she knows no other way apart from Baptism for ensuring children’s entry into eternal happiness. Accordingly, she takes care not to neglect the mission that the Lord has given her of providing rebirth “of water and the Spirit” for all those who can be baptized. As for children who die without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to God’s mercy, as she does in the funeral rite provided for them.
The fact that infants cannot yet profess personal faith does not prevent the Church from conferring this sacrament on them, since in reality it is in her own faith that she baptizes them. This point of doctrine was clearly defined by Saint Augustine: “When children are presented to be given spiritual grace,” he wrote, "it is not so much those holding them in their arms who present them—although, if these people are good Christians, they are included among those who present the children—as the whole company of saints and faithful Christians… It is done by the whole of Mother Church which is in the saints, since it is as a whole that she gives birth to each and every one of them.”
This teaching is repeated by St. Thomas Aquinas and all the theologians after him: the child who is baptized believes not on its own account, by a personal act, but through others, “through the Church’s faith communicated to it.” This same teaching is also expressed in the new Rite of Baptism, when the celebrant asks the parents and godparents to profess the Faith of the Church, the Faith in which the children are baptized.

I appreciate all the time you have taken and the typing you have done, but it is all RCC teaching and no scripture is shown. Tradition is not what I believe, only the word of God,the Bible, I cannot rely on tradition, no matter who said it , or how many times or years it was said. I was saved the scriptural way, if you look at Eph 2: 8,9, you will see how to be saved, the Bible (which is Gods word) also says that “faith comes by hearing , and hearing by the word of God”. So in order to be saved, one must first hear the word, believe what is being said, trust in what you have heard, repent from your sin, and receive the “free” gift that God has to offer you through His son Jesus Christ. Baptism is not a part of salvation, scripture indicates that you get baptized after you are saved, it shows publicly that you have accepted Christ as your personal Savior. One should only be baptized when they are old enough to hear ,understand, and know what they are doing, this is the choice “they” would make themselves after hearing Gods plan of salvation.