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Princess_Abby
Guest
Very true. It is not money that is the root of all evil, it is the LOVE of money. And with that comes all the fantasy and desire entwined with what money can supposedly buy.
Does Your Family Of Origin Have Money And How Do They Handle It? What Would You Do
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catsrus
Guest
My family (also depression era) had nothing. Never even owned a house.
I have had very little because of a lack of education and poor life choices.
My kids do much better and spread it around to any family member in need.
DH’s family is very well to do. We don’t see any of it though. They travel all over the world and spend a small fortune on their one grandchild.
I have had very little because of a lack of education and poor life choices.
My kids do much better and spread it around to any family member in need.
DH’s family is very well to do. We don’t see any of it though. They travel all over the world and spend a small fortune on their one grandchild.
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Princess_Abby
Guest
By the way, I just want to share that I have a friend who is 27 and a self-earned multi-millionaire. Her lifestory is sad–her parents died when she was a young teen, she worked to get through school fast and receive her inheritance and portion of the settlement for her parents’ wrongful death suit.
While this was some money, it certainly was not copious amounts. She took this money, however, and was given the opportunity to become involved with a REIT–as well as a few other well-researched lucrative investment options.
She made millions. She developed a non-profit that supports orphans in other countries, as well as domestic relief for women and children in abusive situations.
She has very interesting views of money. She recently got out of the non-profit to stay at home and raise her two babies. She has struggled with wanting to literally give all her money away because she often feels overwhelmed by the responsibility of having so much material good. But, I have spoken to her about how important it is for someone with a sense of responsibility to have ownership of the money she has hard-earned. She gives staggering amounts away. She is learning that money is not evil, only the love of it–as I mentioned in the previous post.
However, her siblings are like leeches. They all inherited money too, but they were not so diligent about education and good investments. They are SO jealous of her money and while they aren’t in dire need, they are very bitter that she has so much. She has played both sides of the spectrum–giving them money for various reason to make them happy or keep a family fight from occurring, but recently she’s realized how unhealthy it is to give into their entitlement. I know most of her siblings and their audacity sometimes regarding their expectations is just unbelievable. They expect her to make up the difference for their mismanagement of money and lack of work ethic.
While this was some money, it certainly was not copious amounts. She took this money, however, and was given the opportunity to become involved with a REIT–as well as a few other well-researched lucrative investment options.
She made millions. She developed a non-profit that supports orphans in other countries, as well as domestic relief for women and children in abusive situations.
She has very interesting views of money. She recently got out of the non-profit to stay at home and raise her two babies. She has struggled with wanting to literally give all her money away because she often feels overwhelmed by the responsibility of having so much material good. But, I have spoken to her about how important it is for someone with a sense of responsibility to have ownership of the money she has hard-earned. She gives staggering amounts away. She is learning that money is not evil, only the love of it–as I mentioned in the previous post.
However, her siblings are like leeches. They all inherited money too, but they were not so diligent about education and good investments. They are SO jealous of her money and while they aren’t in dire need, they are very bitter that she has so much. She has played both sides of the spectrum–giving them money for various reason to make them happy or keep a family fight from occurring, but recently she’s realized how unhealthy it is to give into their entitlement. I know most of her siblings and their audacity sometimes regarding their expectations is just unbelievable. They expect her to make up the difference for their mismanagement of money and lack of work ethic.
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Peace-bwu
Guest
I know the money hoarding philosophy well. My husbands grandfather, who passed away last year was a man of modest means. He liked his humble home with his firestove and a stove from the thirties! In the late 80s his kids talked him into using an electric stove, rather than teh kind you have to put a wood fire in! There are nine kids and they were always trying to help Pappa keep his house in good condition, assuming he didn’t have the money. When the eldest son and his wife moved in with him so that they could take care of him, they saw a bank statement… and were in shock. Turns out papaw was a multi millionaire due to savings and investments.
My parents are good at saving money, they are middle class. They have always kept very low debt. My dad builts houses to sell as a way to make extra money from time to time, he built their house so they usually spend their money wisely.
My husbands parents just inherited a large sum from Papaw, even split nine ways there was a sizable amount. My husband and I both come from modest homes.
My parents are good at saving money, they are middle class. They have always kept very low debt. My dad builts houses to sell as a way to make extra money from time to time, he built their house so they usually spend their money wisely.
My husbands parents just inherited a large sum from Papaw, even split nine ways there was a sizable amount. My husband and I both come from modest homes.
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CatCat
Guest
My immediate family has never had much money. My little family that is just starting out doesn’t have much money. And you know, I wouldn’t have it any other way. I have an aunt who “dreams” of winning the lottery. She actually does play VERY rarely. She’s always been very careful with her money, and lives a modest and conservative lifestyle. She asked me once what I would do if I won an unfathomable sum in the lottery, and I told her at the time I didn’t know. When I thought about it, I think I would pay off the debt that my family has, and do my darnedest to give away ALL of the rest. My husband has no desire to quit his job, ever. I mean he doesn’t even plan on retiring. So there’s no motivation to keep money there, and like PA said of her friend, I cannot imagine the pressure of having that much money. Give me barely-keeping-my-head-above-water anyday over the pressures of being rich and trying to do it in a Christian manner.
And I agree with the idea of being careful about giving money to family. It easily becomes an entitlement idea, and it is VERY hard to let go of what you have given. I have a brother that over the years has received much money from all of his siblings, and eventually had to declare bankruptcy. It was very difficult to watch him make poor decision after poor decision, but eventually we all had to stop bailing him out and let him live with his decisions. I don’t regret trying to help him, but he never acted like it was our duty to bail him out either. I know how humiliating it was for him to ask for help, which is how it should be. The fact that he knew we were giving of our own generosity rather than a warped sense of duty made it much easier to help him, if that makes any sense.
And I agree with the idea of being careful about giving money to family. It easily becomes an entitlement idea, and it is VERY hard to let go of what you have given. I have a brother that over the years has received much money from all of his siblings, and eventually had to declare bankruptcy. It was very difficult to watch him make poor decision after poor decision, but eventually we all had to stop bailing him out and let him live with his decisions. I don’t regret trying to help him, but he never acted like it was our duty to bail him out either. I know how humiliating it was for him to ask for help, which is how it should be. The fact that he knew we were giving of our own generosity rather than a warped sense of duty made it much easier to help him, if that makes any sense.
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kaymart
Guest
My husband’s family is from Chile and were quite wealthy, 2 homes, servants, a large business, cars you name it, lost everything in 1973 when they had Pinocet come into power and the turmoil in the Country. I don’t know much because even my husband doen’t like to talk about those days, my father-in-law had something to do with the oppostion and would have been killed if they stayed. Aside from that over 30 years later my husband still has trouble living the “poor” life. Most of our fights over the years had to do with how “cheap” I am. I am one of 7 children (grew up with only 6-#7 born after I married) I learn to economize at a young age. I grew up on modest meals, 2nd hand store or hand-me down clothes, never waste paper products, squeeze the last bit out of toothpaste ect, and did the same with my kids but he was so annoyed at this. He used to smoke many years ago and he got annoyed when he left a cigarette burning and I clipped it and put it back in his pack like I saw my Pop-pop do all the time, I don’t smoke but thought it was a waste. It was one of our biggest fights. It seems the former rich can never handle being poor or at least middle class.
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puzzleannie
Guest
Have pity on and pray for relatives who hoard money and possessions, they are in a prison deep and dark and desperately in need of prayers for liberation. Stepdad grew up dirt poor in the depression and never forgot it, his wife never allowed any spending on luxuries at all, and it almost turned his mind. He died with enough money in investments to live in comfort for 100 years, but could not even buy a new pair of pants, let alone the new car he had always wanted. nor could he bring himself to provide for support of MIL beyond a niggardly amount.
His last years and even last days were spent in great anxiety about his money and possession - home and garage filled with useless junk. He would obsess for hours about a few pennies on the phone bill, or minute details on bank statement. Good, pious, church-going, believing man held back from embracing God’s love and mercy in his last illness because he could not let go of his wealth and concerns growing out of that wealth–or with the need to control his daughter and grandchildren and wife through that wealth. very sad.
His last years and even last days were spent in great anxiety about his money and possession - home and garage filled with useless junk. He would obsess for hours about a few pennies on the phone bill, or minute details on bank statement. Good, pious, church-going, believing man held back from embracing God’s love and mercy in his last illness because he could not let go of his wealth and concerns growing out of that wealth–or with the need to control his daughter and grandchildren and wife through that wealth. very sad.
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jman507
Guest
Pray that you are neither rich nor poor. While there are many saints that have been either poor or rich, for the most part it can easily scew you off from what is true wealth.
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LSK
Guest
I love the fact that so many people on this thread have pointed out that no one knows what is truly going on in another’s household.
I also like the fact that the OP has been reminded of previous posts on other threads regarding personal financial problems. Sometimes we need someone else to point out the beam in our own eye before they allow us to point out the foibles and problems with others.
I also believe that if I am jealous of, or even concerned with, how ‘wealthy family members’ are managing their own finances to the point where I have inventoried their belongings and then passed judgement on them, I am not living as a Catholic Christian should. I then need to stop and look very deeply into my own soul to discover what jealous evil may be causing me to ‘covet my neighbors’ goods".
I also got a real kick out of the story of the Aunt who dreams of winning the lottery. We always have fun dreaming outloud of what we would do with all our millions - and then we forget to buy a ticket!
We have a tradition in our 12 step program - the 7th Tradition states that each group should be self-supporting by their own contributions. This translates into my personal life as well. If I turn to someone for help (financially) then ‘he who pays the piper gets to call the tune’.
I also like the fact that the OP has been reminded of previous posts on other threads regarding personal financial problems. Sometimes we need someone else to point out the beam in our own eye before they allow us to point out the foibles and problems with others.
I also believe that if I am jealous of, or even concerned with, how ‘wealthy family members’ are managing their own finances to the point where I have inventoried their belongings and then passed judgement on them, I am not living as a Catholic Christian should. I then need to stop and look very deeply into my own soul to discover what jealous evil may be causing me to ‘covet my neighbors’ goods".
I also got a real kick out of the story of the Aunt who dreams of winning the lottery. We always have fun dreaming outloud of what we would do with all our millions - and then we forget to buy a ticket!
We have a tradition in our 12 step program - the 7th Tradition states that each group should be self-supporting by their own contributions. This translates into my personal life as well. If I turn to someone for help (financially) then ‘he who pays the piper gets to call the tune’.
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sparkle
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Thx V for the clarification!
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sparkle
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Hey PA! Glad you’re back. Thx for your dissertation, but slightly off the original broad view intended and subject matter here.Sparkle,
I think the point is that you have absolutely no idea what your wealthy family members contribute to the greater good. Nor is it any of your business, as much as you might be curious. I think it’s extremely judgemental to assume that your relatives are merely “storing up riches” for themselves when in reality, they probably do not discuss with you their spending habits–charitable or otherwise.
I think it’s hard for me to feel like your perspective is totally unbiased, given that you’ve shared your own financial woes time and again and how your husband’s family helps you out on a frequent basis. You have also expressed how uncomfortable you are with this practice, so… I’m surprised to hear you advocating how wealthy family members should feel obligated to give handouts to those with less. You have intimated several times that the only reason your husband’s family gives you money is because your husband is “lazy” and doesn’t or won’t keep a steady job.
I would feel much more inclined to help a struggling family member if I was witnessing their continued efforts to keep their heads above water. This might come in the form of encouragement–suggesting and cheering for them as they make choices to go back to school and further their education. I would definitely keep praying for their endeavors and future success and stability. If that family member had a health emergency, and found themselves unable to care for themselves, I would certainly feel compelled to step in. If they did indeed go back to school to get a job or learn a trade in which to better support themselves, I would take a look at concrete ways in which I could help them financially IF I felt it was merited and fair. (Such as paying a car payment directly to the insurer–not just handing over 800 dollars a quarter, or whatever.)
However, I do not feel like rewarding slovenly behavior or poor choices. The reality is that some people lack ambition or refuse to work very hard. They want nice things and a certain lifestyle, but they do absolutely nothing but whine about how unfair it is they don’t have it, and expect those around them to provide it for free. Given that literally my entire family has worked and worked and worked to be where they are in life, I have no doubt that nearly anything is attainable if determination and hard work is willing to be applied.
The other reality, of course, is the truth of middle class. There is nothing wrong with making a decent salary and seeing most of it go to raising your family and paying the mortgage, with perhaps not a lot of extras. Still, there are creative ways to save money and plan for splurges. We all have different lots in life and the bible speaks about that, too.
I do not think the “answer” to extras in life has anything to do with milking rich family members. If you’re going to quote scripture, take a look at Matt 7:1. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” Do not look at your family members’ observable spending habits and assume you know everything about their financial situation or charitable contributions. Furthermore, don’t expect handouts that are unwarranted.
I would think that in the case of death, job loss or debilitating illness, any wealthy family member does have an obligation to find concrete ways to help–to the best of their ability. This means recognizing that people who appear to have a lot of money often don’t have cash at their fingertips. Money is tied up in investments and various assets or whatever else, but explanations such as this are simply not anyone else’s business.
The kind thing to do is assume–if, of course, you have to assume anything–that whatever they’re doing is the most they can do, and leave it at that in your mind.
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sparkle
Guest
Oh wow! This is just so prevalent, especially in America I think, the land of plenty. Exactly what I was speaking of. Thx so much for sharing this story! And yes, it correlates with the intent of my OP exactly. Good you have grown to see it for what it is Puzzleannie!
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vluvski
Guest
If only it were so.
I certainly wish I could “rearrange” a few things in the households of people who I help on a regular basis. It’s not that they aren’t trying, but they can be very stubborn about how goals are accomplished, and they keep getting back to the same place over and over again.
I am not just going to sit around and save up my money for that dream house and a boat while family and friends are clearly not making ends meet despite their best efforts. If it ever gets to a point where I have to contribute so much that I feel I need a say in how they’re handling their money (they never actually handle the ‘money’ I give them, I already have it managed for them by using it for food, gas, etc…), I will stop altogether and offer this explanation:
“I’m really not comfortable supporting your family when I keep seeing decisions made that I disagree with. I want to help, but unless you will be open to making some serious changes, it won’t be anything material.”
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sparkle
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Hummmm ----“V” --don’t you mean to say? “**Unless you spend the money I give you on what I see fit, then I won’t give it to you at all”? **This sounds a little to me–like you feel you need to control how they spend the money and if YOU approve of it or not. This seems most like “conditional” love to me. Just MY opinion of course, many are free to differ of course. I feel as Catholics, we need to have unconditional love, (unless of course where we see someone outright abusing such charity, lying or sheming to get their way, being outright dishonest.,really commiting fraud, etc.,) I have witnessed just this (“conditional love”) scenario most recently, when one of my sons said to his grandma, my MIL, how “he might want to attend a Catholic High School”, and my MIL says: "I’m not paying for any “Catholic” High School. I think this is JUST the problem, it’s a control issue.Those who have money, hoard it, feel they are entitled to control others and what they do with it, what they think, and that we, therefore, as the “gift givers” can dictate, or are entitled to our views and what WE tell them to do with it. This isn’t real Love to me. Just some thoughts from my heart here.
We all need to pray about this topic of money–cuz it is a tell tale sign of where a person’s heart is really at.
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Princess_Abby
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Hi. How is it off the broad view? I was referencing your family, which you referenced in your original post.
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Princess_Abby
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So family member should just give random amounts of money out to their relatives with no intended use?Hummmm ----“V” --don’t you mean to say? “**Unless you spend the money I give you on what I see fit, then I won’t give it to you at all”? **This sounds a little to me–like you feel you need to control how they spend the money and if YOU approve of it or not. This seems most like “conditional” love to me. Just MY opinion of course, many are free to differ of course. I feel as Catholics, we need to have unconditional love. I have witnessed just this, recently, when one of my sons said to his grandma, my MIL, how “he might want to attend a Catholic High School”, and my MIL says: "I’m not paying for any “Catholic” High School. I think this is JUST the problem, it’s a control issue. We, who have money, hoard it, feel we are entitled to control others, and that we can dictate or are entitled to our views and what WE them to do with it. Just some thoughts from my heart here.
Island Oak spoke about providing tuition for her neice’s college education. Let’s say it’s $20,000 a year. Should IO just give her family member the money but not say a word about where it’s going? That doesn’t make any sense. If a family member has a financial need, it is usually specific–living expenses, a health emergency, tuition, a car payment, etc. Why shouldn’t the person giving the money with a specific intention have any say about where it should go? It seems that in your formula, IO should just write a personal check for $20k and hope her neice is being supported at college. (Granted, there are some family members who could do that. But, then there are situations where the giver needs to be more specific in how they share their generosity. I have no idea what IO actually does, it’s only an example.
)You’re proposing that it’s more “loving” to just write a check and hope the person who needs the money uses it wisely. Well, if I was giving a family member money for a specific reason but they felt like it should go towards something else–I would not be happy about having given them the money, only to see it be spent elsewhere.
I don’t think that’s a control issue, I think it’s common sense. Money is hard-earned and those who don’t earn it are not entitled to determine how it is spent. A gift is a gift, but some gifts come with specific intentions attached.
Furthermore, if you feel controlled by people who have money–namely, your in-laws, then I suggest you not accept money from them and the problem is solved. If you want to send your child to Catholic school, find a way to do so that does not entail asking your in-laws to provide. Get a job, have your husband get a second job. Whatever it takes, if it’s important to you. But don’t lament about how “controlled” you feel about where they don’t want to spend their money. That is up to them, not you. You want the help but you don’t want the stipulations that come with it. The only way to do that is to earn the money yourself.
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
Really? I think I missed your intention, too, unless it was to solicit responses of total agreement.
I didn’t see you make the qualification that you have no idea whether they give half of what they make to charity. You have no idea whether or not your relatives are observing the maxim “when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your almsgiving may be secret, and your Father who sees in secret will repay you.” (Matt. 6:1-4) You are judging on the externals, which is forbidden.
People get to be rich by putting money where it will do the most work. The very generous among the very rich tend to make their charitable donations in the same way. Giving money to one’s own family, OTOH, is a notorious way to increase the general misery in the family, rather than the general welfare. If this is not the source of the maxim, “No good deed goes unpunished”, I would be very surprised. Generosity can be a good thing, but there is also nothing wrong with coming to the conclusion that the practice should be reserved for extremities, given the family that one has.
The commandments and the catechism both teach clearly that you must strictly avoid the temptation to covet for yourself what others have, be they relatives or no. It is a bad idea to encourage this thinking in others, too.
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vluvski
Guest
I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask that the money not be spent in a certain way. However, I had something entirely different in mind from creating and managing their budget. That would do no good.
I was thinking along the lines of recommending lifestyle changes like, “Hey, I see really great clothes at this little secondhand store,” and “Have you considered not having dessert at every meal and snacks and going out to eat every week?”
I was thinking along the lines of recommending lifestyle changes like, “Hey, I see really great clothes at this little secondhand store,” and “Have you considered not having dessert at every meal and snacks and going out to eat every week?”
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sparkle
Guest
Once again PA, thanks for your post, but I feel you’re missing the jist of it and your examples are merely flyby’s in the wind, not grasping the entire message here.So family member should just give random amounts of money out to their relatives with no intended use?
Island Oak spoke about providing tuition for her neice’s college education. Let’s say it’s $20,000 a year. Should IO just give her family member the money but not say a word about where it’s going? That doesn’t make any sense. If a family member has a financial need, it is usually specific–living expenses, a health emergency, tuition, a car payment, etc. Why shouldn’t the person giving the money with a specific intention have any say about where it should go? It seems that in your formula, IO should just write a personal check for $20k and hope her neice is being supported at college. (Granted, there are some family members who could do that. But, then there are situations where the giver needs to be more specific in how they share their generosity. I have no idea what IO actually does, it’s only an example.
You’re proposing that it’s more “loving” to just write a check and hope the person who needs the money uses it wisely. Well, if I was giving a family member money for a specific reason but they felt like it should go towards something else–I would not be happy about having given them the money, only to see it be spent elsewhere.
I don’t think that’s a control issue, I think it’s common sense. Money is hard-earned and those who don’t earn it are not entitled to determine how it is spent. A gift is a gift, but some gifts come with specific intentions attached.
Furthermore, if you feel controlled by people who have money–namely, your in-laws, then I suggest you not accept money from them and the problem is solved. If you want to send your child to Catholic school, find a way to do so that does not entail asking your in-laws to provide. Get a job, have your husband get a second job. Whatever it takes, if it’s important to you. But don’t lament about how “controlled” you feel about where they don’t want to spend their money. That is up to them, not you. You want the help but you don’t want the stipulations that come with it. The only way to do that is to earn the money yourself.
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Princess_Abby
Guest
Sparkle, I’ve asked you to clarify what the “jist” is and you haven’t. BLB_Oregon also inquired. Until you do, I think my understanding seems pretty right on… so please clarify!Once again PA, thanks for your post, but I feel you’re missing the jist of it and your examples are merely flyby’s in the wind, not grasping the entire message here.
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