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sparkle
Guest
Perhaps you could read the original post once again. Perhaps this might clarify for you what you need, perhaps it is a post you just don’t identify with or are able to understand at this point in your life.
Does Your Family Of Origin Have Money And How Do They Handle It? What Would You Do
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Princess_Abby
Guest
That’s…really not an answer to my question at all.
It seems that my responses to this thread are all very similar to what others have shared and expressed. However, perhaps it is just not an opinion you want to hear.
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auntieneeker
Guest
Don’t forget, Jesus gave His whole Self, His whole Life for people who make poor lifestyle choices – btw, that’s all of us.
As difficult as it may be for us to see it this way, the issue is What would Jesus do?
Unless you subscibe to the Kenneth Copeland gospel, you should know the answer to this question. We hear all this talk about hard earned posessions, when in fact we know that all we have belongs to God.
Believe me, I know what it’s like to be asked for money from someone so they can pay thier rent, when you know the reason they’re in this mess is because they left thier paycheck at the casino. That’s because I know them personally.
Yet when it comes time to give to the homeless, make up food baskets for the poor in our communities or give to the food bank, you don’t ask the circumstances that caused this need. Love moves us, not prudence.
I hope I’m not missing the point of the thread, but I feel it needs to be said.
Monique (who, btw, has been guilty of hoarding)
As difficult as it may be for us to see it this way, the issue is What would Jesus do?
Unless you subscibe to the Kenneth Copeland gospel, you should know the answer to this question. We hear all this talk about hard earned posessions, when in fact we know that all we have belongs to God.
Believe me, I know what it’s like to be asked for money from someone so they can pay thier rent, when you know the reason they’re in this mess is because they left thier paycheck at the casino. That’s because I know them personally.
Yet when it comes time to give to the homeless, make up food baskets for the poor in our communities or give to the food bank, you don’t ask the circumstances that caused this need. Love moves us, not prudence.
I hope I’m not missing the point of the thread, but I feel it needs to be said.
Monique (who, btw, has been guilty of hoarding)
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BlestOne
Guest
Sparkle,
My family all has money and I don’t…Yup, I am the poor relative. My oldest sister, has 4 cars, $350,000 home, takes trips to Jamacia, etc. Do you think she would even come to my wedding or even send me a card, let alone a gift…nope. Don’t want her to either. I was relieved when she said she wasn’t coming…she causes fights every time she is near. I didn’t need that! My brother didn’t come either, he has a house, 3 cars (he is widowed), and belongs to some of the same exclusive clubs as my sister. I was sad he didn’t come, but, he also didn’t send a card either! Do I want mom, or any of my sibs to bail me out? No way!!! From what I can see, the ones with the most in my family are the poorest in spirit! I feel like I am the richest one in my family…even if I have had to combine condensed soup (without water) and try to convince the kids it was stew!!! We have had very many lean times in our lives, but we made it! AND, you know what? it built character. My kids are all in their teens right now, and I actually like them…they are really cool kids. My oldest and I were talking about his best friend the other day and he said,(remember, this is a teen)“Jordan doesn’t appreciate anything he has, he just wants more. Sometimes he really acts spoiled” Wow, not, why can’t I have that? Jordan’s mom got him one…Just thanks mom for teaching me to appreciate what I do have.
That being said, if it were an emergency, I would ask for money. If they volunteered it for a particular purpose like school tuition, I would decide based on if the purpose was what I wanted or needed for my child. If they just handed me money, I would return it…because, if it didn’t make them happy, why would it make me happy? Above all, I don’t care if they are rich and I am poor. It isn’t their responsibility to GIVE me anything. What is theirs, is theirs, I have no claim on their money at all.
Now, here’s the kicker, I work for a man that has tons of money. He is kind and generous, but not stupid. He has a hispanic family living in one of his houses right now so they can feed his cattle. Was that charity, well yes…Does that family feel demeaned by what he did? No, they are doing the best work they can for the man that gave them the opportunity to help themselves. His 16 yo son has to work too. He helps folks by giving them the opportunity to help themselves. Now that is a good rich man.
My family all has money and I don’t…Yup, I am the poor relative. My oldest sister, has 4 cars, $350,000 home, takes trips to Jamacia, etc. Do you think she would even come to my wedding or even send me a card, let alone a gift…nope. Don’t want her to either. I was relieved when she said she wasn’t coming…she causes fights every time she is near. I didn’t need that! My brother didn’t come either, he has a house, 3 cars (he is widowed), and belongs to some of the same exclusive clubs as my sister. I was sad he didn’t come, but, he also didn’t send a card either! Do I want mom, or any of my sibs to bail me out? No way!!! From what I can see, the ones with the most in my family are the poorest in spirit! I feel like I am the richest one in my family…even if I have had to combine condensed soup (without water) and try to convince the kids it was stew!!! We have had very many lean times in our lives, but we made it! AND, you know what? it built character. My kids are all in their teens right now, and I actually like them…they are really cool kids. My oldest and I were talking about his best friend the other day and he said,(remember, this is a teen)“Jordan doesn’t appreciate anything he has, he just wants more. Sometimes he really acts spoiled” Wow, not, why can’t I have that? Jordan’s mom got him one…Just thanks mom for teaching me to appreciate what I do have.
That being said, if it were an emergency, I would ask for money. If they volunteered it for a particular purpose like school tuition, I would decide based on if the purpose was what I wanted or needed for my child. If they just handed me money, I would return it…because, if it didn’t make them happy, why would it make me happy? Above all, I don’t care if they are rich and I am poor. It isn’t their responsibility to GIVE me anything. What is theirs, is theirs, I have no claim on their money at all.
Now, here’s the kicker, I work for a man that has tons of money. He is kind and generous, but not stupid. He has a hispanic family living in one of his houses right now so they can feed his cattle. Was that charity, well yes…Does that family feel demeaned by what he did? No, they are doing the best work they can for the man that gave them the opportunity to help themselves. His 16 yo son has to work too. He helps folks by giving them the opportunity to help themselves. Now that is a good rich man.
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Princess_Abby
Guest
We are called to be good stewards of what we earn by the grace of God.
For me personally, I don’t believe I am being a good steward of money if I don’t give it responsibly.
As I mentioned in previous posts, I am much more a fan of giving in concrete ways–food baskets, car payments to the insurer (as opposed to a personal check), tuition payments to the school, health payments to the insurance company or doctor’s office, etc. If there is a need, I hope to fill it (providing the appropriate circumstances are present), but I want to be sure the need is actually getting filled and money isn’t being squandered instead of answering a legitimate need.
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Consecrated
Guest
To look at this from yet another point of view, what do you do if the family is “forcing” the money on you and “hints” that you should spend it on something that you neither need or want at that time? We have been on the receiving end of some generous monetary gifts from my inlaws in several occasions that were intended for things that we had made clear we didn’t want at that time, and that really weren’t necessities. How do you not accept such gifts? (that is not a rhetorical question, does anyone have any ideas on that we could say/do?)
The more we have tried to not accept the more they push it on us, and guilt us into feeling “ungrateful”. It does seem like a control mechanism to us sometimes. We are not ungrateful, we just don’t need the thing(s) they want us to have. In addition, we have told them time and time again that we are in a very adequate place financially. H and I have very specific plans for our financial future, and just because we’re not going about buying things like cars and furniture in the time and manner they believe is the best doesn’t mean we need their gifts. I personally feel very funny about accepting some of them, b/c I was raised to “fend for myself”, and am used to being able to make decisions for myself w/o feeling controlled.
Example: they question us about every two weeks if we’ve been to the dentist, b/c they know it’s been a couple years (the nagging is another issue
). We have every intention of going, but we’re waiting to find the best deal b/c we don’t have dental insurance. We can afford it, certainly, that’s not the issue. We just don’t want to spend more money than we have to, and knowing our teeth the way we do, (we both have great teeth with only 1 cavity between the two of us) we can afford to wait til a good offer comes by. SO long story short my FIL, without consulting with us or even telling us first, called his dentist (one of the more expensive ones) and told them to call me, make an appointment, and then put it on his account. 
!!! OF COURSE we would NEVER let him pay our dentist bills. We’re responsible, self-supporting adults-- that’s just rediculous. But when we refuse (and we will) to let him pay (after keeping the appointment 
), we will be rebuked severely for our ingratitude, and will get the cold shoulder for days. Is there a better way to handle this situation, and others like it? 
I really want to know.And isn’t the point of posting a problem/question on this forum to solicit all different opinions??
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sparkle
Guest
Thank you Monique. I think you are grasping exactly the point of the entire thread. And your giving spirit and honesty is very admirable to me anyway. Wow! --some folks just still cannot let go of their control and their “entitlement thinking”, even amongst Christian circles. For they earned it, so they deserve to hoard it, withhold it, or do whatever with it. Well, all I can say is to each his own. I hear ya friend. Thank you Monique for opening your heart.
Really do appreciate your point of view.
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vluvski
Guest
Unconditional love is different from unconditional “charity” aka handouts. A number of buzz words, popular phrases, and proverbs come to mind when I think of unconditional handouts, either as synonyms, antonyms, or explanations.
tough love
hand up not hand out
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.
enabling
entitlement thinking
I think most of us would stand on the same side of these schools of thought, yet we’re arguing over how we handle ourselves in general situations requiring charity.
Sparkle, you expressed frustration in another recent thread over how to help your sibling, or how to help your parents’ help your sibling, without enabling. Should you and your parents continue giving “unconditional love” to your brother, or is it necessary to reevaluate how he is going to use that money before you give it to him? You sounded quite frustrated at having given to him over and over, yet you seem to be contradicting yourself here by criticizing other posters for ending charity in similar situations.
Perhaps we just have different perceptions of what level of poor behavior and decision making becomes inappropriate to enable.
tough love
hand up not hand out
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.
enabling
entitlement thinking
I think most of us would stand on the same side of these schools of thought, yet we’re arguing over how we handle ourselves in general situations requiring charity.
Sparkle, you expressed frustration in another recent thread over how to help your sibling, or how to help your parents’ help your sibling, without enabling. Should you and your parents continue giving “unconditional love” to your brother, or is it necessary to reevaluate how he is going to use that money before you give it to him? You sounded quite frustrated at having given to him over and over, yet you seem to be contradicting yourself here by criticizing other posters for ending charity in similar situations.
Perhaps we just have different perceptions of what level of poor behavior and decision making becomes inappropriate to enable.
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Princess_Abby
Guest
IMO, the problem here doesn’t seem like it is money, it is an overabundance of involvement from your in-laws.Example: they question us about every two weeks if we’ve been to the dentist, b/c they know it’s been a couple years (the nagging is another issue ). We have every intention of going, but we’re waiting to find the best deal b/c we don’t have dental insurance. We can afford it, certainly, that’s not the issue. We just don’t want to spend more money than we have to, and knowing our teeth the way we do, (we both have great teeth with only 1 cavity between the two of us) we can afford to wait til a good offer comes by. SO long story short my FIL, without consulting with us or even telling us first, called his dentist (one of the more expensive ones) and told them to call me, make an appointment, and then put it on his account. !!! OF COURSE we would NEVER let him pay our dentist bills. We’re responsible, self-supporting adults-- that’s just rediculous. But when we refuse (and we will) to let him pay (after keeping the appointment
If you don’t want to go the dentist, don’t go. If your FIL made the appointment, call and cancel it. If you get the cold shoulder, you get the cold shoulder. If you don’t like his behavior, choose to express that in a polite way. If you don’t want to hear his ranting about your ingratitude, hang up the phone or remove yourself from the situation.
Don’t you think it might be confusing for your in-laws if you say, “oh no, please don’t pay for that” or “oh no, please don’t schedule an appt for me” but you accept the money anyway and attend the appointment regardless? Of course they have mixed signals, because you say one thing and do another!
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sparkle
Guest
So in otherwords, if the money isn’t going where YOU think it should, well then by all means make sure of it, or withhold. OK. to each his own. We all have a right to our own views.
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vluvski
Guest
Sometimes you just have to suck it up: go to the dentist on his dollar, or be considered an ingrate. I don’t mean for this to sound harsh. People who are on the giving side don’t always have the best attitude when the receiver kindly refuses. All I’m saying is you really don’t have an alternative. You may either take the money and use it as intended, or leave the money and risk their bad attitude. It’s really too bad your in-laws misunderstand your financial plans and your frugality. I say, good for you!To look at this from yet another point of view, what do you do if the family is “forcing” the money on you and “hints” that you should spend it on something that you neither need or want at that time? We have been on the receiving end of some generous monetary gifts from my inlaws in several occasions that were intended for things that we had made clear we didn’t want at that time, and that really weren’t necessities. How do you not accept such gifts? (that is not a rhetorical question, does anyone have any ideas on that we could say/do?)
The more we have tried to not accept the more they push it on us, and guilt us into feeling “ungrateful”. It does seem like a control mechanism to us sometimes. We are not ungrateful, we just don’t need the thing(s) they want us to have. In addition, we have told them time and time again that we are in a very adequate place financially. H and I have very specific plans for our financial future, and just because we’re not going about buying things like cars and furniture in the time and manner they believe is the best doesn’t mean we need their gifts. I personally feel very funny about accepting some of them, b/c I was raised to “fend for myself”, and am used to being able to make decisions for myself w/o feeling controlled.
Example: they question us about every two weeks if we’ve been to the dentist, b/c they know it’s been a couple years (the nagging is another issue
And isn’t the point of posting a problem/question on this forum to solicit all different opinions??
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Princess_Abby
Guest
If I notice a need, such as a family member’s inability to make a car payment, don’t I have a right to be upset if they go out and use the money I gave them to buy a Louis Vuitton bag instead?
If you gave money to the hurricane victims, and found out later your money got re-routed to help the cause of the war in Iraq, wouldn’t you be dismayed???
Furthermore, if there is not a “need” then there is no “withholding” money that is not rightfully yours. That is simply entitlement thinking.
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sparkle
Guest
Wow----your in-laws sound just like mine. I say you need to communicate NOW before it continues on this way. Tell them if they want to help, then they want to help, not just if they can be reassured the $$ goes to what they want. For this isn’t love at all, if it has “strings attached”. IF they want to help, they can give you the money for such, and let you make the decisions. Well, they cannot be assured that you’re spending the $$ the way THEY want, just know their love is conditional. And IMO, that is not love at all, it’s merely control. Good Luck. I’ve been in your shoes, and it wasn’t fun. We lived and learned alot!To look at this from yet another point of view, what do you do if the family is “forcing” the money on you and “hints” that you should spend it on something that you neither need or want at that time? We have been on the receiving end of some generous monetary gifts from my inlaws in several occasions that were intended for things that we had made clear we didn’t want at that time, and that really weren’t necessities. How do you not accept such gifts? (that is not a rhetorical question, does anyone have any ideas on that we could say/do?)
The more we have tried to not accept the more they push it on us, and guilt us into feeling “ungrateful”. It does seem like a control mechanism to us sometimes. We are not ungrateful, we just don’t need the thing(s) they want us to have. In addition, we have told them time and time again that we are in a very adequate place financially. H and I have very specific plans for our financial future, and just because we’re not going about buying things like cars and furniture in the time and manner they believe is the best doesn’t mean we need their gifts. I personally feel very funny about accepting some of them, b/c I was raised to “fend for myself”, and am used to being able to make decisions for myself w/o feeling controlled.
Example: they question us about every two weeks if we’ve been to the dentist, b/c they know it’s been a couple years (the nagging is another issue
Isn’t isn’t the point of posting a problem/question on this forum to solicit all different opinions??
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sparkle
Guest
Sometimes you just have to suck it up: go to the dentist on his dollar, or be considered an ingrate./QUOTE]
I totally disagree.The principal of the matter is so much more important. When my in-laws gave us money for the down payment on our home, and then they put it on a house we hated, we both had to say forget it—we don’t want to live there. They said–well forget the money then, we said “fine”. Luckily it took about a week for them to change their views. But if they didn’t, that would have been OK too. My in-laws always said “don’t look a gift horse in the face”. Well, as I said, love that is conditional is NOT Love at all, but merely control, IMO. My parents on the other hand knowing at that time we wanted to buy a house, said, “here’s some money to help you with your house” --put it on any house you desire"…
Many might see it differently as evidenced here, and that’s OK, for it is their views. And to each his own, but these are my views.
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vluvski
Guest
vluvski:
Maybe I’m crazy, but I think you did just agree with me. You picked, “be considered an ingrate” by refusing the gift on their terms; they gave you no other choice. Basically, your in-laws did or do consider you an ingrate, as demonstrated by the comment, “Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.” You looked it in the mouth, decided you didn’t want it, and told them, “Keep your horse, we’ll take care of it ourselves.”Sometimes you just have to suck it up: go to the dentist on his dollar, or be considered an ingrate./QUOTE]
I totally disagree.
Many might see it differently as evidenced here, and that’s OK, for it is their views. And to each his own, but these are my views.
And again, unless you believe love is synonymous with giving money, you cannot claim that conditional giving of money is synonymous with conditional love. Let me put it in terms of a simple mathematics and logic equation.
A=conditional, B=love, and C=giving money.
A+B=A+C if and only if B=C.
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Princess_Abby
Guest
Hmmmm! Sounds like they also gave you a direction with the money. They didn’t say, here’s $20k, spend it as you please! They told you it was intended for the home you would be purchasing with their help.
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sparkle
Guest
But wouldn’t it be wiser to begin with to say, honey, I hear you’re having trouble making this car pmt. I’d really like to help you. Tell me the name of the insurance company, and I’ll be happy to write a check for you, (regardless of whether they approve of the particular insurance company or not). I think also it is a matter of discernment here, and Godly wisdom. Perhaps it takes more years of living to acquire this, perhaps not with some people. IF someone is a leech, one would hope to be able to discern such, when someone is clearly taking advantage, and when one is not. This takes real wisdom I think, and discernment.
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
I need to say this one more time, then I’ll leave it be.Thank you Monique. I think you are grasping exactly the point of the entire thread. And your giving spirit and honesty is very admirable to me anyway. Wow! --some folks just still cannot let go of their control and their “entitlement thinking”, even amongst Christian circles. For they earned it, so they deserve to hoard it, withhold it, or do whatever with it. Well, all I can say is to each his own. I hear ya friend. Thank you Monique for opening your heart.
Really do appreciate your point of view.
As long as you are saying that Christians are called to be more generous to others than to themselves, all of that, great. “It is more difficult for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle…” etc., etc… no one is arguing with that.
If you are saying one owes parents a debt of gratitude, which may include financial support, fine.
My objection is that you seem to be taking one form of entitlement thinking and attempting to replace it with another one that is just as clearly wrong. Specifically, I take issue with are the following attitudes. If these are not what you are saying, please clarify:
People who have far more than their siblings or extended family are selfish if they don’t share with family members who perceive themselves to be in need.
- You have no idea how much they give in secret, and even if you did, it is not your place to stand in judgement of them. If you say, “We, in a similar situation, feel called to give to our families”, great. But do not think this gives a pretext for thinking yourself superior. It does no good to trade the sin of avarice for the sin of pride.
- As Dr. Phil says, “Most money problems are not solved with money.” It may well be imprudent for the well-to-do to give to their relatives, even when there is a need. If that is the case, they must shoulder the guilt and the judgemental attitude of their family and stick to their guns. There are other places where the demands of justice call. The family does not automatically have the most pressing claims on either our fortunes or our lives. (Luke 9:59-62)
- Those who choose to give to their families, if they are not choosing the payment of power over others, are at the very least choosing the payment of admiration and gratitude. God pays those best who forgo that gratification. (Again: Matt. 6:1-4)
It is not. It is wrong to covet someone else’s belongings. That is one has been well-defined since Moses. Never did Jesus teach differently.
If I may speak for PA…our concern is that, in your zeal to promote self-sacrifice for the sake of others (and that is admirable!), you are promoting covetousness in some while promoting in others a charity that is famous for how easy it is to misplace. Please clarify your meaning or explain how it is that you are not advocating in favor of the errors that concern PA and me, if you would.
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auntieneeker
Guest
this post represents the opinion of Monique, aka auntieneeker
We just bought a new house, and it includes a formal dining room. We don’t have a dining room suite for it, so for now, it sits empty. We could charge a new set, or do the “do not pay” thing, but we would rather save until we have enough cash to buy one. It is also low on our priority list.
People come over and express how it would drive them nuts to have an empty room like that, but to us, it just doesn’t matter.
My grandma recently called and told me that she would like to buy us a china cabinet. Certainly a no-strings-attached offer. My pride says “no, we don’t need charity”. But, my grandma’s “love language” is giving gifts. She would see my refusal as a rejection of her. She just wants to be nice, and this is how she wants to do it. I certainly do not EXPECT her to do it, and if she changed her mind, it would not bother me.
I do, however, just see it as God’s blessing. We gratefully accepted her offer, and this blessed her, too. She is nearly ninety, and I know it makes her feel great that she can give something to those she loves. I grew up in a family where the only way someone could say “I love you” was with money. So, I guess I look at a refusal of receiving charity is as though someone is saying “I love you” and I would respond “No thanks!”
Thanks for listening,
Monique
We just bought a new house, and it includes a formal dining room. We don’t have a dining room suite for it, so for now, it sits empty. We could charge a new set, or do the “do not pay” thing, but we would rather save until we have enough cash to buy one. It is also low on our priority list.
People come over and express how it would drive them nuts to have an empty room like that, but to us, it just doesn’t matter.
My grandma recently called and told me that she would like to buy us a china cabinet. Certainly a no-strings-attached offer. My pride says “no, we don’t need charity”. But, my grandma’s “love language” is giving gifts. She would see my refusal as a rejection of her. She just wants to be nice, and this is how she wants to do it. I certainly do not EXPECT her to do it, and if she changed her mind, it would not bother me.
I do, however, just see it as God’s blessing. We gratefully accepted her offer, and this blessed her, too. She is nearly ninety, and I know it makes her feel great that she can give something to those she loves. I grew up in a family where the only way someone could say “I love you” was with money. So, I guess I look at a refusal of receiving charity is as though someone is saying “I love you” and I would respond “No thanks!”
Thanks for listening,
Monique
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Princess_Abby
Guest
Who said anything about disapproving about someone’s insurance company?? Are you being serious?
What you just described above as being the “appropriate” course of action is exactly what I detailed too, so I don’t understand what your problem with my opinion is. (Except that I would only consider making someone’s car payment for them in the case of unexpected job loss (meaning zero history of 15 years of continually being fired or quitting), illness or death.)
Are you really trying to say that someone with more money should be continually offering to pay random bills regardless, simply because they have more money than someone else?
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