Does your parish sing the ENTIRE recessional (closing) hymn?

[laszlo]

I’m not arguing the “letter of the law” as it were, what I am saying is that we are at Mass to worship the Lord. While we may not be obligated under canon law to sing a finall hymn, shouldn’t we ***want ***to sing, out of love for the Lord?

May point is that you can make it rule for yourself, but not for anyone else.

 

[TrueLight]

1. Most of the hymns used as recessionals in the last 20 years are not hymns of praise but rather hymns of “us”.
2. Staying or going is a cultural variable. In many parishes, the norm is to sing, in others it’s to go out and meet up with the community in the hall (my parish) in still others its a dash for the parking lot. There is no right or wrong. While I am one of those that thinks the vertical is often lost to the horizontal in Mass, the time after Mass is the perfect time for the horizontal, IMHO.

Whether the hymns are to praise God or whether they are for encouragement of the people,. which will ultimately result in us being closer to the Lord, then God gets the praise.

 

[Phemie]

Originally Posted by benedictgal

She means that you don’t change the liturgy to impose something that isn’t necessary. The music supports the liturgy, the liturgy doesn’t support the music.

That’s similar to using children as readers ‘to teach them how to do it’. No, the proper way is to teach them how to do it, THEN make them readers. Mass isn’t to be used to train public speakers, rather, train the public speakers then let them be of service to the Mass.

 

[Theophilus777]

I’ve found that it’s really up to the priest celebrating the Mass. Due to some people leaving the church immediately after receiving communion or during the recessional, one priest I know actually forbade anyone to leave until he had processed to the back. I personally remain in the pew and sing until the song has ended.

 

[TrueLight]

I’ve found that it’s really up to the priest celebrating the Mass. Due to some people leaving the church immediately after receiving communion or during the recessional, one priest I know actually forbade anyone to leave until he had processed to the back. I personally remain in the pew and sing until the song has ended.

I’m thankful that most people in my Parish do not rush out. Not only do they sing all the verses of the recessional hymn, they get on their knees and pray after. I have heard there is a prayer that old time Catholics were encouraged to pray after mass. Haven’t been able to figure out which one it is yet, but anyway, I thank God for the mass, and that I will be a good Christan witness as I go about my life, and I pray for his guidance and protection as I leave. .

As the Psalmist says:

I was glad when they said unto me. Let us go into the house of the Lord

 

[ProVobis]

I have heard there is a prayer that old time Catholics were encouraged to pray after mass.

Are you referring to the Leonine prayers after Low Mass?

I find many singing familiar songs like “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name” or “Come Holy Ghost” sung without organ/piano with the priest leading the song facing the crucifix at some Masses.

 

[Joan1969]

There is no mention of the recessional in the hierarchy of music. The recessional, if used, is meant to cover the action of the celebrant leaving the altar. Furthermore, even the GIRM is silent on the matter. We run the risk of putting the liturgy at the service of the music when it should be the other way around.

Hi Benedictgal,

I disagree with your interpretation here. There is no way that singing an entire hymn, or a respectable portion of one, denigrates in any way from the liturgy. On the contrary, it stands to enhance devotion, and is a proper prayer reaction to God’s liturgical action.

It is a fact of human nature that music moves us in a very profound way, so it is in our interests as a Church to promote good music that draws people to God, and to treat that music in a way that is appropriate. The alternative is not (typically) for people to start praying privately, it is for people to start chatting or to get going with the mad dash to get out of the parking lot. The whole ethos needs change.

God Bless,
Joan

 

[Phemie]

Hi Benedictgal,

I disagree with your interpretation here. There is no way that singing an entire hymn, or a respectable portion of one, denigrates in any way from the liturgy. On the contrary, it stands to enhance devotion, and is a proper prayer reaction to God’s liturgical action.

What Benedictgal is referring to here is the priest changing the liturgy just to get everyone to stay and sing. That’s wrong. There is nothing wrong with singing a hymn that is not necessary, there is something wrong with changing the Mass to force people to sing.

 

[jmjconder]

(Above emphasis mine). Your assertion is pious, but inaccurate. Mass is over when the priest says or chants, “Ite, missa est” or “Go, the Mass is ended.” It is a matter of good manners and respect to wait until the celebrant has processed out of the sanctuary and down the nave (or exits to a side sacristy),

Thank you for the clarification. However I referred to the end of Mass in the spiritual sense - not the strictest sense. It is one of the great challenges of our day to “bridge the gap between faith and everyday life.”

Blessings.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Can you ask your priest to provide documentation that states that a hymn is incorrect (it is unnecessary in the sense that it is not required)?

I posed your question to my priest after Mass this morning. He says there is nothing specific that says that singing a hymn is forbidden at the end of Mass. Equally he says there is nothing that specifically says there has to be one. He said that the Dismissal ends Mass and that there should be nothing that extends the Mass. That is why at our church he and the servers leave by the shortest route and that that action is covered by organ music.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I agree that makes it unnecessary, which I don’t think anyone has disputed, but I don’t see why that would make it incorrect. Using a similar approach, one could say that because the GIRM explicitly envisions the possibility of flowers at the altar, that it implicitly discourages the use of flowers in the vestibule.

I think you need to explain how you could draw that random conclusion. From the line you are taking it could be concluded that anything may be done at Mass even though there is no provision for it in the GIRM.

 

[Digitonomy]

I think you need to explain how you could draw that random conclusion. From the line you are taking it could be concluded that anything may be done at Mass even though there is no provision for it in the GIRM.

My point is that neither one is really “at mass,” and thus these matters are unregulated. The GIRM doesn’t frown on them because it doesn’t address them at all. In the case of the recessional hymn, the mass has already ended. One is free to use the lavatory, or get in his car to enjoy the air conditioning, or kneel and pray the rosary. But as a community, the parish will follow longstanding custom and sing what is technically an extraliturgical hymn.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

My point is that neither one is really “at mass,” and thus these matters are unregulated. The GIRM doesn’t frown on them because it doesn’t address them at all. In the case of the recessional hymn, the mass has already ended. One is free to use the lavatory, or get in his car to enjoy the air conditioning, or kneel and pray the rosary. But as a community, the parish will follow longstanding custom and sing what is technically an extraliturgical hymn.

All the things that you decribe are not necessary things to do after Mass so as my priest correctly pointed out the recessional hymn is unnecessary. On the other hand we will obviously not come to an agreement on his comment that it is incorrect. However, I am not saying, and have not said, that it is something terrible or dreadful to do. We had the recessional hymn pre our current parish priest.

 

[Corki]

I’m not arguing the “letter of the law” as it were, what I am saying is that we are at Mass to worship the Lord. While we may not be obligated under canon law to sing a finall hymn, shouldn’t we ***want ***to sing, out of love for the Lord?

Nothing wrong with singing. Something very wrong with changing up the order of Mass. It is forbidden in the strongest terms. To add a hymn before the final blessing is wrong.

Not only that, it places an obligation on the Congregation that the Church does not.

Hi Benedictgal,

I disagree with your interpretation here. There is no way that singing an entire hymn, or a respectable portion of one, denigrates in any way from the liturgy. On the contrary, it stands to enhance devotion, and is a proper prayer reaction to God’s liturgical action.

God Bless,
Joan

Singing a hymn isn’t wrong. Putting an extra hymn into a part of the Mass where it doesn’t belong is wrong. The order of the Mass is just that - elements in order. No priest has the authority to change that on his own whim.

It is a fact of human nature that music moves us in a very profound way, so it is in our interests as a Church to promote good music that draws people to God, and to treat that music in a way that is appropriate. The alternative is not (typically) for people to start praying privately, it is for people to start chatting or to get going with the mad dash to get out of the parking lot. The whole ethos needs change.

You’ve just made benedictgal’s point. “to treat that music in a way that is appropriate” To use music to create a liturgical abuse or to effectively try to force people to sing is **not **treating the music in a way that is appropriate.

 

[Joan1969]

Nothing wrong with singing. Something very wrong with changing up the order of Mass. It is forbidden in the strongest terms. To add a hymn before the final blessing is wrong…

You’ve just made benedictgal’s point. “to treat that music in a way that is appropriate” To use music to create a liturgical abuse or to effectively try to force people to sing is **not **treating the music in a way that is appropriate.

Hi Corki and all,

I think I may have misunderstood the point. Benedictgal was responding to another poster, and I did not follow the exchange as closely as I should have. Sorry. I agree that changing the order of Mass is unacceptable.

I do, however, still think that people can be encouraged to sing more appropriate portions of hymns, or the full hymn. It’s a matter of choosing to change the practice of the parish. Two verses of a hymn are, more often than not, an unsatisfying treatment of a piece of music. Perhaps I am just speaking as a frustrated lover of hymns, who would love nothing more than the chance to sing a few once in a while in a way that is suitable. Many parishes are very lazy in this regard. And people are too quick to run out to try to get out of the parking lot, when they would do better to stick around to pray to God, either through music or privately.

God Bless,
Joan

 

[TrueLight]

Are you referring to the Leonine prayers after Low Mass?

I find many singing familiar songs like “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name” or “Come Holy Ghost” sung without organ/piano with the priest leading the song facing the crucifix at some Masses.

Sounds familiar. That might be it.

 

[TrueLight]

Hi Corki and all,

I think I may have misunderstood the point. Benedictgal was responding to another poster, and I did not follow the exchange as closely as I should have. Sorry. I agree that changing the order of Mass is unacceptable.

I do, however, still think that people can be encouraged to sing more appropriate portions of hymns, or the full hymn. It’s a matter of choosing to change the practice of the parish. Two verses of a hymn are, more often than not, an unsatisfying treatment of a piece of music. Perhaps I am just speaking as a frustrated lover of hymns, who would love nothing more than the chance to sing a few once in a while in a way that is suitable. Many parishes are very lazy in this regard. And people are too quick to run out to try to get out of the parking lot, when they would do better to stick around to pray to God, either through music or privately.

God Bless,
Joan

Well put!

 

[Corki]

I do, however, still think that people can be encouraged to sing more appropriate portions of hymns, or the full hymn. It’s a matter of choosing to change the practice of the parish. Two verses of a hymn are, more often than not, an unsatisfying treatment of a piece of music. Perhaps I am just speaking as a frustrated lover of hymns, who would love nothing more than the chance to sing a few once in a while in a way that is suitable. Many parishes are very lazy in this regard. And people are too quick to run out to try to get out of the parking lot, when they would do better to stick around to pray to God, either through music or privately.

God Bless,
Joan

And sometimes two verses of a hymn is 1 1/2 too many. I love hymns too but the recessional, even granting that it may not really be a part of Mass, has a purpose. The purpose is to accompany the exit of the priest. Our parish is tiny. It takes about 5 seconds (no exageration) for Father to walk from the altar to the back door. Going on for 3 or 4 verses is useless. The hymn would no longer be at all related to the recession of the priest. We would basically be singing to hear ourselves sing. Mind you, we are not a parish where any significant number of people rush to the parking lot. We have a lively fellowship in the hall after Mass. I would much prefer the singing to cut off earlier than to have everyone walking out while the leader is still singing just to get an extra verse in.

 

[TrueLight]

The hymn would no longer be at all related to the recession of the priest. We would basically be singing to hear ourselves sing.

Considering that Catholics were the first to start writing hymns, followed by Protestants, it is a shame that there is such resistance to singing hymns and a total lack of understanding of how they can be used to praise God and bless a Christian’s life.

Just because a recession hymn’s primary purpose is to cover the recession doesn’t mean it can’t have a dual purpose.

This is why I love the Anglican Use.

And some Catholics love hymns as well too. If they can’t find them in their parishes, they find them elsewhere.

 

[Corki]

Considering that Catholics were the first to start writing hymns, followed by Protestants, it is a shame that there is such resistance to singing hymns and a total lack of understanding of how they can be used to praise God and bless a Christian’s life.

Just because a recession hymn’s primary purpose is to cover the recession doesn’t mean it can’t have a dual purpose.

This is why I love the Anglican Use.

And some Catholics love hymns as well too. If they can’t find them in their parishes, they find them elsewhere.

:banghead: :banghead:

No resistance to singing hymns on my part.

**No lack of understanding on my part. **

Just because singing can and should be used to praise God doesn’t mean that every hymn, no matter how bad or how long, needs to be sung to its completion. There is a time and place for everything, including singing. I don’t have any issue with singing all the verses for the hymns that are actually part of Mass. NONE. I love singing. I love hymns. But I don’t like standing there singing (along with about 5 other people) extra verses while Father is waiting for us in the hall.