Dolan: Whoever thinks he could be next Pope must be on dope

  • Thread starter Thread starter garn9173
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Frank_Drebin said:
I agree. I am also concerned that he is the first person in the last twenty or so years in America to refer to “dope.”
Click to expand...
It’s been awhile since I read the OP, but I don’t think he does use that term. I think the article used it for a catchy title, but I am pretty sure he says marijuana.
 
Lucky7 said:
I actually wasn’t saying she shouldn’t have a Catholic funeral. My merciful side struggles with that. Having said that, if she was in the process of having an abortion she already excommunicated herself. Also, was she in a state of mortal sin at the time of her death? If so, what will the Funeral Mass accomplish? And if she was excommunicated by that very act, how is it that she can have a Funeral Mass? I think this is where PaulinVA was chatting about canon law with NewEnglandPriest. When does Canon law get applied/when does it not?
Click to expand...
How do we know whether she was awake at the last and had a change of heart? How do we know what happens just before the moment of death? Is it beyond an all loving and merciful God to confront us one last time and ask for our repentance so that He can admit us into Paradise? It would be presumptuous to think He always does, but since we don’t know, we can also not presume that He doesn’t. Similarly, with suicide, how do we know the state of a person’s mind? Was he temporarily insane and therefore not responsible for his actions? I would rather have a Catholic Mass and prayers for the deceased in the event that All Merciful and All Loving God found some way to reach that person before the final moment when it was too late, even in a dream or altered state of consciousness-- I cannot rule out anything when it comes to Almighty God. This is all my instinct on the matter you raise-- I don’t have a clue what the Church’s position is. I will obey the Church whatever it does in these matters.
 
JamesCaruso said:
How do we know whether she was awake at the last and had a change of heart? How do we know what happens just before the moment of death? Is it beyond an all loving and merciful God to confront us one last time and ask for our repentance so that He can admit us into Paradise? It would be presumptuous to think He always does, but since we don’t know, we can also not presume that He doesn’t. Similarly, with suicide, how do we know the state of a person’s mind? Was he temporarily insane and therefore not responsible for his actions? I would rather have a Catholic Mass and prayers for the deceased in the event that All Merciful and All Loving God found some way to reach that person before the final moment when it was too late, even in a dream or altered state of consciousness-- I cannot rule out anything when it comes to Almighty God. This is all my instinct on the matter you raise-- I don’t have a clue what the Church’s position is. I will obey the Church whatever it does in these matters.
Click to expand...
I think all of that makes absolute sense and I would prefer to agree iwth it. I guess I’m questioning if having an abortion results in an automatic excommunication, I’m not sure I get how that person who has had no opportunity to repent via confession, could have a Funeral Mass. It seems to go against Canon Law.
 
lizaanne said:
No - you are not alone. I’m not impressed with this man, and his sense of humor. I’d much rather see him calling out the liberals who seem to fawn at his feet, than him donning a cheese head and making jokes.

~Liza
Click to expand...
Liza, I agree with you completely. I would say more but forum rules prohibit me.
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
Wasn’t you who was suggesting that the Catholic mother who died trying to have an abortion should be excommunicated and not have a Catholic funeral? What pry tell is that going to accomplish?
Click to expand...
It was actually me.

But, not my suggestion. It’s the Church’s. The Church says no public prayers, no ecclesiastical burial if you are excommunicated, and abortion results in automatic excommunication.

My discussion with NewEnglandPriest was about the black and white of that canon, and the application in real life.
 
Lucky7 said:
It’s been awhile since I read the OP, but I don’t think he does use that term. I think the article used it for a catchy title, but I am pretty sure he says marijuana.
Click to expand...
Thank goodness. Next thing you know, we’ll hear Cardinal O’brien referring to smack.
 
lizaanne said:
No - you are not alone. I’m not impressed with this man, and his sense of humor. I’d much rather see him calling out the liberals who seem to fawn at his feet, than him donning a cheese head and making jokes.

~Liza
Click to expand...
After the mass, Dolan stopped under the apsis of the imposing Gothic cathedral. He said that whoever considered him to be a favourite to replace Pope Benedict XVI must be “smoking marijuana.”
Click to expand...
Maybe, OTOH, it’s time we had a Cardinal who was not so stodgy as I imagine some are. I thought the remark was a sign of humility that he considered himself not even in the running. Don’t forget that our first Pope was a common fisherman, with no high sounding language of an educated man with degrees in theology. Most of the apostles were rough hewn men who probably spoke a lot like Cardinal Dolan.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
Uh… am I the only one that finds that language unfitting a man of the cloth?
Click to expand...
Please spare me from “men of the cloth.” I just want a pastor who is plain spoken, knows his faith, and has an intense love for Jesus and Mary. If he has to adopt some phony veneer, and high sounding language, you can have him. The only gravitas that I find appealing is that which comes from the infilling of the Holy Spirit.
 
Frank_Drebin said:
Thank goodness. Next thing you know, we’ll hear Cardinal O’brien referring to smack.
Click to expand...
Hopefully, you are not putting Cardinal Dolan in the same category as ex-Cardinal O’brien. As for marijuana, it’s nice to have a US leader who has not boasted of using it himself. Maybe boasted is too strong a word-- anyone?
 
JamesCaruso said:
Hopefully, you are not putting Cardinal Dolan in the same category as ex-Cardinal O’brien. As for marijuana, it’s nice to have a US leader who has not boasted of using it himself. Maybe boasted is too strong a word-- anyone?
Click to expand...
FWIW, I was referring to Cardinal Edwin O’Brien…
 
Frank_Drebin said:
FWIW, I was referring to Cardinal Edwin O’Brien…
Click to expand...
FWIW. Keith O’Brien is the Cardinal who is currently in the news, so I thought the reference might have been to him. Since I am new here, I don’t really know you or what your sentiments are, but I apologize, nevertheless, if I offended you in any way. There has been so much Church leader bashing in recent times that I jumped to conclusions.

I think any American Cardinal might give the American Catholic Church a much needed boost, and wouldn’t it be wonderful to hear all his messages in our native tongue. But I remain very skeptical the College would pick an American at this time, when it was a shock that they even picked a German and a Pole before Him. Still, from a human viewpoint, it seems a (strong) youthful person would be just what the Church needs to handle the immense challenges of the 21st century, and that is one attribute that Cardinal Dolan does possess, if no other. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 😊
 
Lucky7 said:
I actually wasn’t saying she shouldn’t have a Catholic funeral. My merciful side struggles with that. Having said that, if she was in the process of having an abortion she already excommunicated herself. Also, was she in a state of mortal sin at the time of her death? If so, what will the Funeral Mass accomplish? And if she was excommunicated by that very act, how is it that she can have a Funeral Mass? I think this is where PaulinVA was chatting about canon law with NewEnglandPriest. When does Canon law get applied/when does it not?
Click to expand...
How is this all that different from someone who commits suicide. We can never say if someone was in the state of mortal sin…as you don’t know if they were fully free…same thing with suicide.

And if she wasn’t…the very prayers of a funeral mass can accomplish much.
 
JamesCaruso said:
Maybe, OTOH, it’s time we had a Cardinal who was not so stodgy as I imagine some are. I thought the remark was a sign of humility that he considered himself not even in the running. Don’t forget that our first Pope was a common fisherman, with no high sounding language of an educated man with degrees in theology. Most of the apostles were rough hewn men who probably spoke a lot like Cardinal Dolan.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t mind Dolan…and his remarks did not bother me in the least…

Having said that…I would also like to see Cardinal Burke as our next Pope! Probably more then Dolan!

In the meantime I will pray for the cardinals to listen to the Holy Spirit. This is all new to me…first time since I’ve come back to the church…
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
I wouldn’t mind Dolan…and his remarks did not bother me in the least…

Having said that…I would also like to see Cardinal Burke as our next Pope! Probably more then Dolan!

In the meantime I will pray for the cardinals to listen to the Holy Spirit. This is all new to me…first time since I’ve come back to the church…
Click to expand...
Yes, I pray for the cardinals to listen to the Holy Spirit as well. I do not think this is something to take for granted. We have been spoiled by a number of holy men in the papacy, men who do seem to follow the Holy Spirit, but I suspect that the office of Cardinal does not automatically equate to holiness, even in this day and age, or should I say, particularly in this day and age. Satan rages against the Church, and if there is the slightest weakness in any high ranking Church official, I am sure Satan exploits it to the fullest extent possible. We need to always pray for our leaders, especially the Pope and all the Bishops.
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
How is this all that different from someone who commits suicide. We can never say if someone was in the state of mortal sin…as you don’t know if they were fully free…same thing with suicide.

And if she wasn’t…the very prayers of a funeral mass can accomplish much.
Click to expand...
Well, as PaulinVA reiterated above, abortion ends in automatic excommunication. So, yes, there is a difference. According to the Church, it appears that having an abortion is worse than committing suicide since the former action results in the sinner excommunicating themselves from the Church. If one is excommunicated, how does that person now take part in Church life (even if they are dead)?
 
Lucky7 said:
Well, as PaulinVA reiterated above, abortion ends in automatic excommunication. So, yes, there is a difference. According to the Church, it appears that having an abortion is worse than committing suicide since the former action results in the sinner excommunicating themselves from the Church. If one is excommunicated, how does that person now take part in Church life (even if they are dead)?
Click to expand...
By incompetent or ignorant election of abortion or by last moment conversion? Who is the final judge of a man’s state? Who is the determiner of the exact moment of death? Is it possible for God to intervene in the instant before the soul leaves the body and for the soul to repent in that last nanosecond of life on earth? What does the Church say?
 
JamesCaruso said:
FWIW. Keith O’Brien is the Cardinal who is currently in the news, so I thought the reference might have been to him. Since I am new here, I don’t really know you or what your sentiments are, but I apologize, nevertheless, if I offended you in any way. There has been so much Church leader bashing in recent times that I jumped to conclusions.

I think any American Cardinal might give the American Catholic Church a much needed boost, and wouldn’t it be wonderful to hear all his messages in our native tongue. But I remain very skeptical the College would pick an American at this time, when it was a shock that they even picked a German and a Pole before Him. Still, from a human viewpoint, it seems a (strong) youthful person would be just what the Church needs to handle the immense challenges of the 21st century, and that is one attribute that Cardinal Dolan does possess, if no other. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 😊
Click to expand...
No problem man. I should hav been more careful given the current situation.
 
Lucky7 said:
Well, as PaulinVA reiterated above, abortion ends in automatic excommunication. So, yes, there is a difference. According to the Church, it appears that having an abortion is worse than committing suicide since the former action results in the sinner excommunicating themselves from the Church. If one is excommunicated, how does that person now take part in Church life (even if they are dead)?
Click to expand...
First of all you were talking about mortal sin…of which we can never be sure if someone is in a state of.

As far as the rest…I guess that would depend on if you are more interested in the black/white of it then in the state of her soul…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top