Dominican Sister of St. Cecilia under fire by students for talk on homosexuality

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From Joseph Nicolosi’s (Ph.D) research:
In 1968, Hoffman stated: “Sexual promiscuity is one of the most striking, distinguishing features of gay life in America” (p. 45). A much-cited study by Bell and Weinberg (1978), published by the Kinsey Institute, and often called the most ambitious study of homosexuality ever attempted, gathered its data before the AIDS crisis had begun. This study showed that 28 percent of homosexual males had had sexual encounters with one thousand or more partners. Furthermore, 79 percent said more than half of their sex partners were strangers. Only 1 percent of the sexually active men had had fewer than five lifetime partners. The authors concede: “Little credence can be given to the supposition that homosexual men’s ‘promiscuity’ has been overestimated” (p.82). “Almost half of the white homosexual males…**said that they had had at least 500 different sexual **partners during the course of their homosexual careers,” (p. 85).
josephnicolosi.com/an-open-secret-the-truth-about/
Those numbers tend to be about as useful as surveying men at a brothel to figure out how often the average man frequents prostitutes.

When you go to a site that is known for being the place to hook up for casual sex naturally you are going to find tons of promiscuous people.
My child’s perception was that Sister got all of her statistics around homosexuality from that one study. In fact, I believe she cited several studies. If anything was missing from her lecture, I would be inclined to believe that it may have been a lack of citation. This still would not be enough, for me at least, to go ballistic over the material. I do believe a PhD would be happy to provide cited references for all of her material upon request.

Yes. I would agree. I found a similar study that said 500 over a lifetime. That is believable, and what I think she was likely getting at. Of course, I don’t know, because the information is secondhand and I wasn’t there.

Strictly my opinion, but my intuition is telling me that one, a few, or even several students got their knickers in a knot when Sister presented the risk factors associated with single and divorced parents. Students took it to mean that she was attacking single and divorced parents, and then relayed the information as such to their single and/or divorced parent. Likely, these same parents were also unclear on the teachings of the church around chastity and homosexuality. This added fuel to the fire. From my child’s account, Emma Winter’s petition is completely overblown or just plain false. It was designed to inflame and enrage.

@ Prodigal Son- I read your posts from earlier, and I think that it is people like you who have struggled with homosexual tendencies throughout their lives that get really marginalized in these debates. Sometimes, you even get it from both sides, with well intentioned Catholics who do not understand the church teachings, and gay rights advocates that chastise you for living as a husband and father. I salute you sir! 👍
The actual average is 2-4 per year depending on location, age and race. Younger people tends toward fewer partners and the overall percent continues to drop. The average for men under 24 (when you’d think they’d shag like crazy being young men) is 2.1 per year. Of course remember that since this is an average it gets pushed up by the gay men who engage in as much sex as you’d figure a young man with access to nearly unlimited partners would do.
 
While I don’t think the Church has ever made a pronouncement, intentional single parenting would be almost as bad.
I have been told in the past, per my inquiry, that the Church does allow for single parent adoption to good homes. Two parents are not required to adopt, so “intentional single parenting” could not possibly be anywhere near ‘as bad’ unless you mean only the cases of women having sex with men until she gets pregnant, but that is immoral for alternative reasons.
 
There’s no solid evidence that homosexuality is the cause or the effect of the decline of fatherhood in the US (or anywhere).
The very fact that homosexuality is childless, is a cause for the decline of fatherhood and motherhood. God Bless. Memaw
 
The very fact that homosexuality is childless, is a cause for the decline of fatherhood and motherhood. God Bless. Memaw
Or, at least, many homosexuals or bisexuals don’t marry people of the opposite sex and have children. Some do. 🤷

100 years ago, most adults with same-sex attraction were in straight marriages and had children. Heck, that was probably true 15 years ago, too.
 
Because of the interest in the speech, I’d like to reflect what really happened. There is an article in the Charlotte Observer that was a little soft about what went on. I was in the meeting and can tell you, it went a lot further. The Observer article is here:

charlotteobserver.com/2014/04/02/4813240/more-than-1000-attend-charlotte.html

The Vicar of Education, Father Arnsparger was also in attendance. A few Priests of the Diocese sat in front to show support. A few sat in the back of the meeting.I also saw a few of the Progressive Nuns in the Diocese also sitting in back.

The meeting started with statements which included an explanation by Father Kauth why he brought Sister to the school. In the Fall, Sister did two presentations: One for boys and Fathers and one for daughters and Mothers. These talks were NOT well attended. Father did send out an e-mail to parents stating that he was disappointed that more parents didn’t show up to the talk. Apparently some of the students and parents thought the talk was so educational and so well received by those who did attend, students and parents requested Father bring Sister to the school for an assembly.

As a side note, Father explained why he has a passion for this type of teaching. He made it very clear that when he was going through Seminary, it was the first time he had heard Theology of the Body and human sexuality talked about, so his reaction was, “Why has no one ever taught me this?”. When he was a young Priest attached to St. Matthews, he would often teach Theology of the Body to small prayer groups. The reaction he received from most of the prayer groups was, “Why has no one ever taught me this?”

Father spoke with Sister and asked her to please come and give the same talk to the students as had been delivered with the parents. Sister was very reluctant to give the talk like this. Father believed that the children could handle this more maturely and was not worried.

The next part of the story is the most important. Sister did come and deliver the same talk with one exception- she inserted 15 minutes of material that was from a 2011 Catholic study (please forgive me for not knowing the exact name of this study, as I did not take notes). It was from this study that some of the statistics came that seemed to really upset the students. Father also mentioned that he was taken aback by the comments during the presentation. Father explicitly stated that he believes that the talk was inappropriate for this audience for two reasons: 1. The assembly was much too large for this type of presentation and 2. There was no time given for questions and answers between the students and the presenter. Otherwise, Father did maintain that the materials presented did adequately reflect the teachings of the church on human sexuality.

When asked in the Q&A why Father did not stop the Sister during the speech, Father stated two reasons, which I believe were valid: 1. He had never heard this part of Sister’s talk before, and he was waiting for her to tie this back to the original talk, and 2. If you invite a guest to your house, you don’t just rudely cut them off from expressing an idea.

Good things that came out of the assembly:
  • Almost Universal agreement that the students and parents should be notified when talks like this are happening (my personal reason for this is that I might have liked to have heard what was said as well).
  • Understanding as to why some kids felt marginalized by the talk (i.e. boatloads of statistics about the increased risks of living in a single parent household). Gut reaction is to say she was telling the truth, but rationally, a little sensitivity is required here. Teenagers do not have the connectivity between their emotion and logic centers of their brain to always process information correctly. In this case, the bombardment of statistics on the risks of single parenting left kids of single parents feeling like they were worthless. A the same time, we, the Catholic Church, try to promote women keeping their babies instead of aborting. I agree it made it look like we are talking out of both sides of our mouth.
  • Commitment by Father Arnparger that materials will be acquired or developed that will help parents to be able to teach this information at home.
  • Father apologized to the parents for anything and everything that was said that was hurtful. He committed that an apology would also be conveyed to the students.
Now for the bad things:
  • Overwhelming cognitive dissonance from the opposing side. More than a few times, those preaching love and tolerance were screaming at Father Kauth at the top of their lungs in a rude and hateful manner. As I sat watching this, I could not help but think these are the people that would walk into a confessional on a given day and expect absolution from sin from this same Priest. At worst, Father made a mistake by not looking into what Sister would talk about. We all make mistakes. I have never seen a Priest treated in a manner such as this. One gentleman got up from the audience and said very calmly, "I was waiting for someone to yell, crucify him! " It was that bad.
  • Overall loud, obnoxious, and rude behavior from the opposing side towards fellow Catholics who supported Father.
  • A call to have Father removed from his position due to lack of confidence in his ability to be a Good Shepherd to the students.
I want to finish by saying that one of the teachers stood up and spoke from the heart. She stated that since Father Kauth has come to Charlotte Catholic High School, Mass attendance and attendance at adoration has skyrocketed. It would be a great shame to lose a Priest that has done such wonderful things for the school. I absolutely agree. Feel free to share this post with others so they can truly understand what went on last night.

Thank you, and please continue to Pray for Charlotte Catholic High School.
 
Thank you for sharing. It helps to shed light.
As a side note, Father explained why he has a passion for this type of teaching. He made it very clear that when he was going through Seminary, it was the first time he had heard Theology of the Body and human sexuality talked about, so his reaction was, “Why has no one ever taught me this?”. When he was a young Priest attached to St. Matthews, he would often teach Theology of the Body to small prayer groups. The reaction he received from most of the prayer groups was, **“Why has no one ever taught me this?” **
I had the same feeling! And there’s still so much I haven’t learned!
 
Thank you for sharing. It helps to shed light.

I had the same feeling! And there’s still so much I haven’t learned!
In the meantime, I’ve been enjoying sister’s talks online, so I guess some good has come of this.
 
In the meantime, I’ve been enjoying sister’s talks online, so I guess some good has come of this.
It may not have been a conversation people wanted to have, but it was a conversation that needed to be had. If other people can learn how to have this conversation with young people, then it was worth the attention it received. If you or your Priest don’t have this conversation with your kids, someone else will. You may not like what they tell your kid either.
 
Because of the interest in the speech, I’d like to reflect what really happened.
Thank you for sharing this with us.
A call to have Father removed from his position due to lack of confidence in his ability to be a Good Shepherd to the students.
That’s incredibly malicious and over-the-top. 😦

Father acted in good faith. Not sure this call is being made in good faith.
 
That’s incredibly malicious and over-the-top. 😦
Father acted in good faith. Not sure this call is being made in good faith.
You’re correct. Being charitable, about half of the people in opposition to Father, which I would say made up about 70% of the crowd, were nasty and disrespectful in some way. There was not one ounce of love or charity in their heart. Peaceful discourse did not commence until these angry people left the building and a civil and respectful conversation could be had. They were vengeful and wanted blood.

The irony was that these same people probably approach the confessional, and not knowing Father was their Confessor, would ask him to absolve them of their sins. They would rightly expect forgiveness and absolution. Where was Father’s forgiveness and absolution?
 
Now for the bad things:
  • Overwhelming cognitive dissonance from the opposing side. More than a few times, those preaching love and tolerance were screaming at Father Kauth at the top of their lungs in a rude and hateful manner. As I sat watching this, I could not help but think these are the people that would walk into a confessional on a given day and expect absolution from sin from this same Priest. At worst, Father made a mistake by not looking into what Sister would talk about. We all make mistakes. I have never seen a Priest treated in a manner such as this. One gentleman got up from the audience and said very calmly, "I was waiting for someone to yell, crucify him! " It was that bad.
  • Overall loud, obnoxious, and rude behavior from the opposing side towards fellow Catholics who supported Father.
  • A call to have Father removed from his position due to lack of confidence in his ability to be a Good Shepherd to the students.
I will keep Father Kauth in my prayers as well…
 
I would like to ask for your prayers for Sister Jane Dominic Laurel, O.P, a Dominican Sister of St. Cecilia Congregation.

catholicnewsherald.com/53-news/roknewspager-local/5264-charlotte-catholic-speaker-sparks-student-petition

Sister Jane Dominic is my professor this semester for Sacred Scripture. She is solid and very knowledgeable, her area of specialization being Dogmatic Theology. She also gives lectures around the country on the topic of Masculinity and Femininity. I attended this lecture when it was offered at our College, which was given in early January of this year, and it is very informative, rooted in Catholic teaching and supported by sociological data.

I told Sister after I found out yesterday that she has my support and encouragement.
I know that she would be much grateful for prayers. I also know that she would not like the news to spread around the College (I think this means the student body) lest something similar be sparked. Not among the faculty or staff – ours is a sold Catholic school. But we do have a substantial non-Catholic body that could stir trouble if they were to find out about what others students have done. She recognizes that the news might get to the College inevitably, but I know she would appreciate that those who already know not by their own initiative spread the news around the school , so I will not.

So to ask for prayers, I come here. She is doing the right thing! We need speakers like her, and the fact that a student body at Catholic school would petition against her is indicative of the possibility of bad formation in Catholic teaching being received by the students.

I for one, will be sending a message to that Charlotte Catholic High School in support for Sister, since they have received many emails in opposition to her.
Ana
I am glad you find her a good professor.
One is at pain to accept what the media says about most things and particularly Catholic things.

There were several that seem to be questionable.
  1. The students were not allowed to leave or ask questions. Questions are important. If I couldn’t ask questions and disagreed, I would leave. I’m old now and not so easy to intimidate.
  2. Certainly, not all that she is reported to say is grounded in Catholic Doctrine. As far as I know the church has no position on the cause of homosexuality. Certainly, the scientific data is not clear.
  3. We need to talk to students and convince them with data. We need to not talk at them and hold them silent. No good comes of that behavior on the part of the school.
We need to love and show concern for people

Peace
 
Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio

Cardinal Josef Ratzinger (writing as prefect for the CDF)

Even if the word abuse was not used in these particular quotes, “violence” and “discrimination” are much worse than being just “unwise”.

The Church does not teach that single parenthood is wrong because it is already the result of one parent abandoning the family. It is not a goal in itself but the unfortunate result of someone’s dereliction of duty. Same-sex adoption is an end goal.
the question isn’t whether it is better to have a mother and father. Yes that is certainly ideal.

the question is should the child have a stable home with loving adults or an unstable home and or unloving adults

the data is in from the science. It is better to have stable financially secure home than one in chaos.

older children have little chance of adoption at all. It is sad. It is true
 
Does that make it seriously wrong for someone to suggest that increased incidence of homosexuality might be the effect of this decline? I just want to get clear on this.

Per comparison, I don’t think that there is a connection between autism and contraceptives in drinking water, but I wouldn’t consider it seriously wrong to suggest such a connection. When two things correlate, there’s always a possibility there is a causal connection.
there are forums for teaching and forums for making hypotheses to test in research projects.

It is a mistake to use the authority position to suggest hypotheses in the teaching environment unless discussing how research is done. The kids have enough trouble getting things figured out without bringing in the things that are poorly understood (unless making the point that the system is poorly understood and suggesting a set of divergent hypotheses).

We need to teach clear thinking and good science along with the teaching of the church.
As St. Thomas said, these things have to come together in the end. They cannot contradict each other in the long term.
 
Because of the interest in the speech, I’d like to reflect what really happened. There is an article in the Charlotte Observer that was a little soft about what went on. I was in the meeting and can tell you, it went a lot further. The Observer article is here:

charlotteobserver.com/2014/04/02/4813240/more-than-1000-attend-charlotte.html

I just want to say a quick thank you for your time and great posting about this incident. It has to be upsetting. I (and no doubt many others) are praying for you, the school, Father Kauth and the Sister. In my view, she didn’t do anything wrong and I suspect when all is said and done the data was probably all right too. I think a lot of this kind of information is only discussed “behind closed doors” in the gay community.

I am worried about how much intimidation is being brought to this and other issues by those who disagree with the Church’s positions. I can only see it getting worse and more divisive. It’s also becoming increasingly clear that these forces are perhaps even more dangerous inside than outside of the Church.

But I’ll spare you a long diatribe. For now just take care of yourself and your family. Your kid(s) are very lucky to have you.

Peace in Christ.
 
The very fact that homosexuality is childless, is a cause for the decline of fatherhood and motherhood. God Bless. Memaw
That’s a dreadful explanation as that means the clergy causes a decline in fatherhood and motherhood. Also it fails to understand how the words “decline” and “fatherhood” connect.
[removed due to post length constraints]

When asked in the Q&A why Father did not stop the Sister during the speech, Father stated two reasons, which I believe were valid: 1. He had never heard this part of Sister’s talk before, and he was waiting for her to tie this back to the original talk, and 2. If you invite a guest to your house, you don’t just rudely cut them off from expressing an idea.

Good things that came out of the assembly:
  • Almost Universal agreement that the students and parents should be notified when talks like this are happening (my personal reason for this is that I might have liked to have heard what was said as well).
  • Understanding as to why some kids felt marginalized by the talk (i.e. boatloads of statistics about the increased risks of living in a single parent household). Gut reaction is to say she was telling the truth, but rationally, a little sensitivity is required here. **Teenagers do not have the connectivity between their emotion and logic centers of their brain to always process **information correctly. In this case, the bombardment of statistics on the risks of single parenting left kids of single parents feeling like they were worthless. A the same time, we, the Catholic Church, try to promote women keeping their babies instead of aborting. I agree it made it look like we are talking out of both sides of our mouth.
  • Commitment by Father Arnparger that materials will be acquired or developed that will help parents to be able to teach this information at home.
  • Father apologized to the parents for anything and everything that was said that was hurtful. He committed that an apology would also be conveyed to the students.
Now for the bad things:
  • Overwhelming cognitive dissonance from the opposing side. More than a few times, those preaching love and tolerance were screaming at Father Kauth at the top of their lungs in a rude and hateful manner. As I sat watching this, I could not help but think these are the people that would walk into a confessional on a given day and expect absolution from sin from this same Priest. At worst, Father made a mistake by not looking into what Sister would talk about. We all make mistakes. I have never seen a Priest treated in a manner such as this. One gentleman got up from the audience and said very calmly, "I was waiting for someone to yell, crucify him! " It was that bad.
  • Overall loud, obnoxious, and rude behavior from the opposing side towards fellow Catholics who supported Father.
  • A call to have Father removed from his position due to lack of confidence in his ability to be a Good Shepherd to the students.
I want to finish by saying that one of the teachers stood up and spoke from the heart. She stated that since Father Kauth has come to Charlotte Catholic High School, Mass attendance and attendance at adoration has skyrocketed. It would be a great shame to lose a Priest that has done such wonderful things for the school. I absolutely agree. Feel free to share this post with others so they can truly understand what went on last night.

Thank you, and please continue to Pray for Charlotte Catholic High School.
That’s more a human thing than a teenager thing and phrasing things poorly can severely aggravate it.
I am glad you find her a good professor.
One is at pain to accept what the media says about most things and particularly Catholic things.

There were several that seem to be questionable.
  1. The students were not allowed to leave or ask questions. Questions are important. If I couldn’t ask questions and disagreed, I would leave. I’m old now and not so easy to intimidate.
  2. Certainly, not all that she is reported to say is grounded in Catholic Doctrine. As far as I know the church has no position on the cause of homosexuality. Certainly, the scientific data is not clear.
  3. We need to talk to students and convince them with data. We need to not talk at them and hold them silent. No good comes of that behavior on the part of the school.
We need to love and show concern for people

Peace
  1. It’s certainly doesn’t fit the Socratic or Scholastic methods.
  2. I think we people fail to realize is that “not explicitly violating Catholic Doctrine” doesn’t mean it is entirely grounded in Catholic doctrine because that doesn’t talk about a lot of stuff such as the etiology of homosexuality.
  3. We also need to make sure that that data is valid
 
there are forums for teaching and forums for making hypotheses to test in research projects.

**It is a mistake to use the authority position to suggest hypotheses in the teaching environment unless discussing how research is done. ** The kids have enough trouble getting things figured out without bringing in the things that are poorly understood (unless making the point that the system is poorly understood and suggesting a set of divergent hypotheses).

**We need to teach clear thinking **and good science along with the teaching of the church.
As St. Thomas said, these things have to come together in the end. They cannot contradict each other in the long term.
As an educator myself, I’m not sure how one can teach clear thinking without suggesting hypotheses. The schoolroom is not a place for indoctrination, but for inquiry. I propose that your suggestion, if put into practice, would have a “chilling effect” on classroom conversations.

There is simply no substitute for knowing the material well, knowing the students well, and seeking to avoid giving unnecessary offense to people.
 
I am a parent of one of the children that attended the talk. I can only relay what my child said about the talk. My child’s only issues were that Sister’s remarks seemed to focus on a single study of homosexuality that was done in San Francisco in 1978. Since that time, I have been investigating some of the statistics reported and it seems some statistics are parroted in reports from the past decade, so my child’s perception of what was discussed differed from reality.

She did make a misstatement by saying that homosexual men have on average 500 sex partners in a year. Again, this is secondhand information. Giving Sister the benefit of the doubt, I believe she misspoke if she even said this at all. It is just as reasonable to believe that my child could have just as easily heard the information incorrectly.

I will be attending the parental meeting this evening. Please pray for us.

If I may make an observation, I find it very difficult to find solid studies on homosexuality. It seems every study I find that talks about issues in the Gay community are often disputed, so it is hard to separate rhetoric from reality. This makes it even more difficult to have a genuine conversation on this issue.

I do believe that if the talk on homosexuality, single-parenting, and divorced parenting struck a nerve and seemed oversimplified, many of the parents’ understanding of Catholicism also seems overly simplistic. I know Shelley Earnhardt and I am familiar with the church she attends. It is actually one of the more liberal churches in the diocese with an RCIA program run by a “Nuns on the Bus” type. The founding Priest of her Parish actually was known for giving communion to those who deviated significantly from standard church teachings, even giving it to people who were known Protestants. To hear this type of language coming from her based on what her daughter witnessed is disappointing but not unexpected. Shelley really stepped in it when she released her e-mail to a few “undisclosed friends”.

Needless to say, the usual suspects have come out to complain. The people whose churches are known for fairly watered-down catechisis are the ones complaining. The churches that dive into the fine print, do education on the Papal encyclicals, and have frequent adult formation classes are those who didn’t complain. It really is that simple.
Thank you, God Bless, Memaw
 
As an educator myself, I’m not sure how one can teach clear thinking without suggesting hypotheses. The schoolroom is not a place for indoctrination, but for inquiry. I propose that your suggestion, if put into practice, would have a “chilling effect” on classroom conversations.

There is simply no substitute for knowing the material well, knowing the students well, and seeking to avoid giving unnecessary offense to people.
I am not suggesting we avoid questioning. What I am saying is we need to separate the teaching of well tested theory from the things that aren’t known.

When addressing the things that aren’t known we need to present things as hypotheses and how they will be tested, (if some data is available, that needs to be shown). Teaching how to form and test hypotheses is crucial. it is different than presenting well tested theory
 
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