Dominican Third Order?

[Batfink]

Aw man, I’m losing you all! Just when I thought I was going to have some CAF Lay Dominican buddies

Anyway, my prayers will be with you all (esp. Jason and Melchior) as you continue your discernment. I don’t post on here very often any more but I do lurk around and pray for you.

I’m hopefully going to be enrolled in the Angelic Warfare Confraternity tomorrow, pretty close to the first anniversary of my temporary profession as a Lay Domincan. Any prayers would be appreciated.

 

[jwinch2]

Any prayers would be appreciated.

Count on it!

Peace,

 

[LSK]

Can I ask, what is the purpose of the Dominican Third Order? I’m told they are supposed to hold the same sort of charism as the Dominican’s, but what does that mean? Preaching, evangelisation? I’ve never seen any talks by them, no papers, no books, no reflections of any sort (God or anything about their vocations), nada. Are there any? If so, where? Do they help out the Dominicans in any way? Do the Dominican’s help them? If so, how?

I am assuming that they don’t go about preaching like the friars, but one might think they had some role somewhere with regard to sharing the faith. I’m assuming their first duty would be to develop a relationship with God, and come to a better understanding. Study and prayer would probably be important too,… but what else?

Or are they sort of a fan club?

I will be making my first promise this July as a Lay Dominican. I am a RCIA Catechist and found myself drawn to the Order and its Charism because of their love for study and (I think) because of my work as a catechist. I love the fact that study of the Faith itself is a kind of prayer for Dominicans, and that there is a huge emphasis on Faith AND Reason, something that many say is incompatible but that Catholics believe is essential.

I wish I could explain it better but I hope that helps a bit.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I am (fairly) certain that I have reached the end. At the beginning. Which I guess isn’t so odd.

1. Was an SFO. Left. Maybe I should have stuck it out. I don’t know, TBH. Although, several openly practicing gay members, and a really awful run-in with a member just pushed me away.
2. Missed it. 4 of the holiest people that I know are still there.
3. Searching. Tried the Bennies (who I like a very great deal). A bit too much like me, really. No challenge there. Lousy at Lectio Divina, and non-Catholics at meetings just not really my cup of tea. “Our” monk is one of the finest men that I know.
4. Got an email from 1 of the holy people I mentioned in #2. Mentioned how the OFS (I like that arrangement of letters several orders of magnitude better) is returning to its roots…no more “Wackos please apply” signs.

So there is where I am at.

Pluses:

OblOSB: Father (mentioned above), closer by almost 1 hour (although the Monastery itself is 4 hours away), LotH (see negatives, though)

OFS: the 4 mentioned in #2, LotH, “connect” with St Francis, Padre Pio better, love the Admonitions, Assisi is “home”

Minuses:

OblOSB: tad overly charismatic (fainting, etc), LotH is their own version (I don’t feel like I am “praying with the Church”), a couple of…err…odd members

OFS: 1 wacko; group more politically liberal than me (although not “in your face” as it used to be), distance (1 hour drive both ways)

We were in Italy at the shrine of my family run by Franciscans about 20 years ago. Fell in love with it (and Assisi). Decided that I was drawn to something more…which turned out to eventually be the SFO.

Found out later that the shrine is run by Benedictines. Duh. I sometimes wonder why the good Lord allowed me to make that mistake, TBH*. If I had known that the shrine was Benedictine, that’s probably the way I would have gone in the first place. Particularly since it was about the time I entered Formation in the SFO, that the Monastery established an Oblate group in my town.

Anyway, both groups have a meeting in early July. I have to know which by then…

*any ideas/thoughts/(name removed by moderator)ut on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

To be clear: I really like the LotH of the Monastery…it’s just that it feels “odd” praying it by “ourselves”.

Any insights?

 

[JReducation]

A few thoughts.

1. The LOTH is always going to be kind of lonely when you’re a secular, because it’s really meant to be prayed in community unless you’re a hermit or Jesuit. Their breviary is specifically designed to be prayed alone. But, since you don’t have a community, do the best you can and don’t sweat it.
2. The Benedictine LOTH is not going to be the same as the rest of the Church, because it’ snot part of the Benedictine tradition to pray the same office as the Church. The abbot can write the entire LOTH as he believes it to best for his monks. Monastery usually form alliances called congregations. They’re not really congregations, because obviously there is no central authority. However, instead of one abbot writing the entire LOTH for his monastery, they work on it together for several monasteries. It’s less work. Don’t think that you’re not praying with the Church, even if you’re doing something different. If you were a Franciscan, this weeks would be a was for you. We had four Franciscan holy days this week. Everything in the Roman Breviary and Roman Missal went out the window. We prayed out of our breviary and said mass out of our missal. But we’re still praying with the Church. On Sept 5 you would be praying the LOTH and mass for Bl. Mother Teresa and on Oct 22, the LOTH and mass for Bl. John Paul, but you’re still praying with the Church. Your just on a different page. We’re supposed to pray together, not necessarily the same thing.
3. You said that there are actively gay members in one of the fraternities. I hope that you’re mistaken. That should not be happening. We love gay people and we serve their spiritual, material and emotional needs. But we can’t incorporate those who are actively engaging in objectively sinful behavior.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[jwinch2]

To be clear: I really like the LotH of the Monastery…it’s just that it feels “odd” praying it by “ourselves”.

Any insights?

If you are referring to the Monastic Diurnal then I would just consider that you are praying with thousands of Benedictines all over the world. You are certainly praying with the Church when you pray the hours that way.

Also, you might just consider praying the regular liturgy of the hours when you are not at the monastery if it works better for you. I haven’t seen anything hard and fast regarding a requirement to use the Monastic Diurnal, merely to pray “some part of the hours” everyday.

 

[jwinch2]

Are you required to pray the Monastic Diurnal if you stay with the OSB? Pretty much everything I have seen is that Oblates are obligated to pray “some part of the liturgy of the hours”. Perhaps you can just pray the regular hours if you like that better. However, I would suggest that praying the Diurnal might unite you more closely in spirit with your monastery?

Question. You may have mentioned this before, but have you made your final oblation at this point?

I’m sure you will figure all of this out soon.

Peace,

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

A few thoughts.

1. The LOTH is always going to be kind of lonely when you’re a secular, because it’s really meant to be prayed in community unless you’re a hermit or Jesuit. Their breviary is specifically designed to be prayed alone. But, since you don’t have a community, do the best you can and don’t sweat it.
2. The Benedictine LOTH is not going to be the same as the rest of the Church, because it’ snot part of the Benedictine tradition to pray the same office as the Church. The abbot can write the entire LOTH as he believes it to best for his monks. Monastery usually form alliances called congregations. They’re not really congregations, because obviously there is no central authority. However, instead of one abbot writing the entire LOTH for his monastery, they work on it together for several monasteries. It’s less work. Don’t think that you’re not praying with the Church, even if you’re doing something different. If you were a Franciscan, this weeks would be a was for you. We had four Franciscan holy days this week. Everything in the Roman Breviary and Roman Missal went out the window. We prayed out of our breviary and said mass out of our missal. But we’re still praying with the Church. On Sept 5 you would be praying the LOTH and mass for Bl. Mother Teresa and on Oct 22, the LOTH and mass for Bl. John Paul, but you’re still praying with the Church. Your just on a different page. We’re supposed to pray together, not necessarily the same thing.
3. You said that there are actively gay members in one of the fraternities. I hope that you’re mistaken. That should not be happening. We love gay people and we serve their spiritual, material and emotional needs. But we can’t incorporate those who are actively engaging in objectively sinful behavior.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

1. They were finally booted out by a Deacon.

Thanks for your response, brother.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Are you required to pray the Monastic Diurnal if you stay with the OSB? Pretty much everything I have seen is that Oblates are obligated to pray “some part of the liturgy of the hours”. Perhaps you can just pray the regular hours if you like that better. However, I would suggest that praying the Diurnal might unite you more closely in spirit with your monastery?

Question. You may have mentioned this before, but have you made your final oblation at this point?

I’m sure you will figure all of this out soon.

Peace,

It is not the MD. It is a LotH +, if you will. An extra Psalm at Lauds and at Vespers, and a much longer reading.

 

[Melchior_1]

Objectively speaking, if OSF kicked out the problem people, that evens the playing field a bit. Now it seems there’s a couple of “odd” people in both places.

I’m guessing you’re not into the charismatic aspect. That’s understandable, I’ll be the first to admit it’s not for everyone. If it makes you super uneasy, I’d say go to the OSF. If you can set aside your discomfort, to me it seems that the Benedictines are where you might fit in best.

 

[jwinch2]

Objectively speaking, if OSF kicked out the problem people, that evens the playing field a bit. Now it seems there’s a couple of “odd” people in both places.

I’m guessing you’re not into the charismatic aspect. That’s understandable, I’ll be the first to admit it’s not for everyone. If it makes you super uneasy, I’d say go to the OSF. If you can set aside your discomfort, to me it seems that the Benedictines are where you might fit in best.

I don’t understand why there would be a charismatic aspect to the Benedictine Monastery in the first place. The Charismatic tradition is a legitimate tradition in the Church, I am not disputing that. However, I have not seen anything which would even remotely suggest that it is legitimate part of Monastic tradition. I am relatively new, so perhaps there is something there which I am not aware of.

 

[Melchior_1]

I don’t understand why there would be a charismatic aspect to the Benedictine Monastery in the first place. The Charismatic tradition is a legitimate tradition in the Church, I am not disputing that. However, I have not seen anything which would even remotely suggest that it is legitimate part of Monastic tradition. I am relatively new, so perhaps there is something there which I am not aware of.

You know, I thought the same thing. I had to re-read Luigi’s posts to make sure that I read it right.

I know Franciscans, Dominicans, and some Carmalites are into charismaticism, but I never heard anything from monastics before.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Objectively speaking, if OSF kicked out the problem people, that evens the playing field a bit. Now it seems there’s a couple of “odd” people in both places.

I’m guessing you’re not into the charismatic aspect. That’s understandable, I’ll be the first to admit it’s not for everyone. If it makes you super uneasy, I’d say go to the OSF. If you can set aside your discomfort, to me it seems that the Benedictines are where you might fit in best.

It doesn’t really “bother” me, per se. These are very kind, nice and holy people. It just doesn’t feel “real” to me.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I don’t understand why there would be a charismatic aspect to the Benedictine Monastery in the first place. The Charismatic tradition is a legitimate tradition in the Church, I am not disputing that. However, I have not seen anything which would even remotely suggest that it is legitimate part of Monastic tradition. I am relatively new, so perhaps there is something there which I am not aware of.

Well, the monks are Olivetan. As such, at least there, they travel to meetings 4+ hours each way, not to mention conferences, which is pretty different…

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

It is not the MD. It is a LotH +, if you will. An extra Psalm at Lauds and at Vespers, and a much longer reading.

Incidentally, after Brother J’s explanation, I feel much better about the LotH+. In a really odd way, when I pray it, I feel like I’m praying it there (at the Monastery, that is). I can’t explain it, really…

Can you guys please address my question as to why the good Lord would allow me to persist in the mistake of thinking that my family’s shrine was Franciscan?

Don’t blame Him, Lou. You’re just dense



Besides that explanation

 

[JReducation]

I know Franciscans, Dominicans, and some Carmalites are into charismaticism, but I never heard anything from monastics before.

Close, but not quite my friend. There are friars from the three mendicant families who are in the Charismatic movement. Within the friary itself, the life of prayer is very conventual.

The difference, I guess, is that a friar can go out to a Charismatic meeting, whereas most monks rarely leave the monastery. They would have to bring the meeting to them. We don’t need to do that. Therefore, it does not have to involve the entire community.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[jwinch2]

Well, the monks are Olivetan. As such, at least there, they travel to meetings 4+ hours each way, not to mention conferences, which is pretty different…

I must be missing something as I am not seeing how that relates to a charismatic approach within Benedictine spirituality.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I must be missing something as I am not seeing how that relates to a charismatic approach within Benedictine spirituality.

My point is that they do things a tad differently than other monasteries…

 

[jwinch2]

My point is that they do things a tad differently than other monasteries…

I see. Nothing to be embarrassed about, I was just confused.

If the charismatic approach is bothering you, have you considered another monastery? I didn’t see if you had replied earlier regarding if you had made a final oblation or not.

Peace,