Donald Trump Becomes First U.S. President to Speak at March for Life

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Victoria33 said:
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gracepoole:
This seems like reaching.
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This seems like reaching.

Reaching might be more like plopping some obscure website with obscure stories and those stories sometimes and not infrequently, have an “anti-Evangelical” tone to them, to say the least.

I grew up in the Bible belt, I saw anti-Catholicism at times in my life. It’s not good and even if it is not paid back, I don’t need to be “anti-Evangelical” (meaning of course, in the broadest sense of the word per Protestant religions as we are all called to evangelize). I’ve heard Catholics say things of Protestants I might disagree with. All of this is not positive.
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I’m okay with your earlier statement that perhaps Trump’s selection of this advisor wasn’t completely in his hands — I actually think that’s spot on. Massaging the meaning of the word miscarry, though, is a step too far for me.
 
They are pretty much making their lack of contrition apparent through their very public policies. Are we not called to make a firm amendment to sin no more? They very publicly. And ardently support abortion any time any where for any reason.JB just promised he would continue in that mode.Draw your own conclusions.Seems pretty obvious to me
 
dvdjs said:
Trump is the only believer that I have ever heard publicly deny asking God for forgiveness.
He publicly denied doing it.
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I am sorry, this thread does have a pro-life tone, I have seen you speak against pro-lifers, take the side of a person involved in Planned Parenthood, Christine Blasey-Ford, defend abortion on demand planned parenthood supporters like Obama and the Democrats in general.

To find fault with some statement here and there does not seem intellectually proper. Anyone who has enabled abortion has done much worse. And it would seem, President Trump has probably enabled it in his life in giving to Democratic politicians but now we are on a new page.

Trump said he had never asked for forgiveness, maybe he just isn’t in the same mold as some of us, maybe he was never exposed to that aspect of religion. I don’t really see that as a failure.
 
My post count in this thread is probably getting high so I don’t want to continue much more but if we take Paula White’s words literally, “Satanic pregnancies”, so, pregnancies of the Devil? If we don’t want to see a “Satanic pregnancy” miscarried, are we saying we want the Devil to be born? See, all of this, to me, starts to get a bit nonsensical.
 
Victoria33 said:
Trump said he had never asked for forgiveness, maybe he just isn’t in the same mold as some of us, maybe he was never exposed to that aspect of religion.
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Perhaps it is simply not part of his character.
He does strike me as prideful. Perhaps it is the territory, perhaps that is the character trait necessary for him to have gotten where he is.

But I am less concerned with a hypothetical on the state of his soul then I am the concrete good he has done for the pro life cause.
 
Victoria33 said:
I am sorry, this thread does have a pro-life tone, I have seen you speak against pro-lifers, take the side of a person involved in Planned Parenthood, Christine Blasey-Ford, defend abortion on demand planned parenthood supporters like Obama and the Democrats in general.
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It is regrettable that you make these allegations without a single link to a single post. I think that if we looked at any post that you have in mind, and talked it through, I would be able to persuade you of a different understanding of it than that which is communicated in this post.

I would like for us to work to enculturate Catholic values on life. But to do that requires a a clear vision as to what the real obstacles are. In particular it requires moving beyond mere partisanship. It requires that recognition that thus will be a huge lift, given the the fact that in all of human civilization there has never, AFAIK, been a society that looked at human life at points near to the time of fertilization in any way similar to life of a born individual. Moving forward, IMO, will really demand the kind of purification that Ghandi used to talk of and that the Church should always model. It can only be advanced by partisan politics, IMO, if we were to adopt a level of authoritarianism that I could not support, or a compromise that falls far, far short of the enculturation of Catholic values.
 
dvdjs said:
I would like for us to work to enculturate Catholic values on life. But to do that requires a a clear vision as to what the real obstacles are. In particular it requires moving beyond mere partisanship. It requires that recognition that thus will be a huge lift, given the the fact that in all of human civilization there has never, AFAIK, been a society that looked at human life at points near to the time of fertilization in any way similar to life of a born individual. Moving forward, IMO, will really demand the kind of purification that Ghandi used to talk of and that the Church should always model. It can only be advanced by partisan politics, IMO, if we were to adopt a level of authoritarianism that I could not support, or a compromise that falls far, far short of the enculturation of Catholic values.
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It seems you defend the Democratic party daily here. So, I would just say in general, go to any of your posts doing this. How this could be seen as an “allegation”, I don’t know. Even here, we are talking about Trump, what if we were talking about Obama or Bernie? Would one be as critical?
 
dvdjs said:
I defend the truth here.
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Have you ever defended abortion as a choice? Yes or No. That’s simple to answer.

And I do consider saying “I defend the truth here” as a deflection. So, one defended Blasey-Ford, so Kavanaugh was not truthful?
 
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The enculturation of those Catholic values would go a lon g way if those politicians supporting all social issues antithetical to Cathol teachings would actually live their faith and defend it in the political sphere.
 
dvdjs to @Horton . . . .
The point is that Trump was publicly unrepentant. He publicly denied asking for God’s forgiveness.
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First of all he WAS publicly repentant for his role in the Access Hollywood situation.

Trump’s Rare Apology​

By Robert Farley

Posted on December 12, 2017

Sen. Bernie Sanders wrongly said President Donald Trump has never apologized for his comments on the “Access Hollywood” tape in which he bragged about sexually inappropriate behavior.

Trump did apologize at the time for his comments in a press release, a video statement and during a presidential debate. Some have questioned the sincerity or quality of the apology, but he did apologize. . . .
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He publicly denied asking for God’s forgiveness.
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Again. He does not have the faith gifts we are bequeathed in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that Christ founded.

Hopefully by now he HAS asked God for forgiveness.

Meanwhile he is still the first President to speak at the March For Life.
And at least Planned Parenthood thinks President Trump is working hard to do away with abortion.

I think President Trump is working hard to do away with abortion too.
 
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Victoria33 said:
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gracepoole:
What’s the point and benefit of this purity test?
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You are asking this? After posting that article from a website that has multiple articles that are unflattering towards Evangelicals?
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?

Yes, I’m asking this. The article I posted was not some sort of purity test. But demanding to know whether someone has voted for a politician who’s pro-choice, seemingly to then tell his person he has no business in the discussion, is a clear purity test.

(And I have zero allegiance to Evangelicals. Why would I as a Catholic?)
 
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gracepoole said:
?

Yes, I’m asking this. The article I posted was not some sort of purity test. But demanding to know whether someone has voted for a politician who’s pro-choice, seemingly to then tell his person he has no business in the discussion, is a clear purity test.

(And I have zero allegiance to Evangelicals. Why would I as a Catholic?)
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I am sorry, if one starts picking out what a politician such as President Trump or other has said in the past, why should a member, myself or others, be immune from the same standard? We should not be self-righteous if our record is not so stellar.
 
Cathoholic said:
First of all he WAS publicly repentant for his role in the Access Hollywood situation.
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That is not what we had been talking about.
But I am glad you posted the link. He did admit wrongfulness. But couldn’t avoid tainting it with comparison about how he was not nearly as bad as the publican - err, Clintons,
Cathoholic said:
Hopefully by now he HAS asked God for forgiveness.
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i hope too. And maybe he will similarly look back on his comments, realize the wrongfulness of them, and make a statement as hie did about the Access Hollywood tape.
 
Victoria33 said:
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gracepoole:
?

Yes, I’m asking this. The article I posted was not some sort of purity test. But demanding to know whether someone has voted for a politician who’s pro-choice, seemingly to then tell his person he has no business in the discussion, is a clear purity test.

(And I have zero allegiance to Evangelicals. Why would I as a Catholic?)
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I am sorry, if one starts picking out what a politician such as President Trump or other has said in the past, why should a member, myself or others, be immune from the same standard? We should not be self-righteous if our record is not so stellar.
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Because no one here is president. The standard we have for the POTUS or any politician must be higher by necessity. And essentially what you’re saying is “you’re a hypocrite so your argument fails.” But this is an ad hominem attack and therefore has no merit. The argument against Trump as the spokesperson for the pro-life movement is not just built on his previous pro-choice views.

Additionally, you can go ahead and just say “you” instead of “one.” No need to hide behind that language.
 
dvdjs . . .
That is not what we had been talking about.
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Yes. I get that dvdjs.

But I did not want any reader (especially lurkers) to come away thinking here, that there has never been any public repentance from President Trump as that would be the wrong idea.
 
gracepoole said:
Because no one here is president. The standard we have for the POTUS or any politician must be higher by necessity. And essentially what you’re saying is “you’re a hypocrite so your argument fails.” But this is an ad hominem attack and therefore has no merit. The argument against Trump as the spokesperson for the pro-life movement is not just built on his previous pro-choice views.

Additionally, you can go ahead and just say “you” instead of “one.” No need to hide behind that language.
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No one is hiding behind any language.

I’ve explained myself otherwise and I will not repeat myself.

Okay, I got the little message about posting too much. I accept that… so to the statement.
gracepoole said:
Well just for future reference, I’m okay being called out directly. It’s my preference, for what it’s worth.
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Okay, the mere reason I do this is simply because we have had rules here, to say things in the 3rd person, to not be confrontational. So, per my analysis, it be right or wrong, that is why I do it and I think it’s a fairly good policy generally speaking, for all forum members.
 
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