Donald Trump Calls for Barring Muslims From Entering U.S

  • Thread starter Thread starter gilliam
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Vouthon said:
Well, I am glad he has moderated his statement regarding tourists but come on, the very fact that he is even having to say that US citizens “can” return from a vacation…I mean, to think their liberty in that regard could theoretically be curtailed and that a viable presidential candidate could even be seen to suggest such…It’s entirely ludicrous.
Click to expand...
Trump was probably thinking… not about law-abiding American Muslims who go
overseas for a legitimate vacation… but about those who leave the U.S. to spend
time in Muslim countries and come back radicalized.
Farook did this very thing and came back from his “vacation” with a terrorist
wife.

The Feds would do well to vet these young returning Muslims carefully. I’m
sure from now on the Feds will at least be vetting their foreign fiancees
more carefully.
 
Vouthon said:
I’m not even going to write a meaningful response to this statement.

The threat of terrorism should not force us to abandon our cherished values. We do not rise to the challenge by losing who we are.
Click to expand...
I know! We cannot give up on our welcoming, multicultural, open society. We must welcome the Muslims, they bring diversity and a good culture that would react with terrorism if we didn’t.
 
sarah_j said:
Trump was probably thinking… not about law-abiding American Muslims who go
overseas for a legitimate vacation… but about those who leave the U.S. to spend
time in Muslim countries and come back radicalized.
Farook did this very thing and came back from his “vacation” with a terrorist
wife.

The Feds would do well to vet these young returning Muslims carefully. I’m
sure from now on the Feds will at least be vetting their foreign fiancees
more carefully.
Click to expand...
That’s an entirely different context from a vacation. If a citizen goes abroad to illegally fight in a war or join a terrorist organization attacking the U.S., then that is grave and in the latter case treasonous.

But Trump did seem to initially suggest that Muslim Americans travelling abroad would not be allowed back in.
 
Donald Trump says the things we’re often told, you just can’t say anymore. That resonates with alot of people.
 
Seamus_L said:
Donald Trump says the things we’re often told, you just can’t say anymore. That resonates with alot of people.
Click to expand...
He says things that respectable politicians in law-abiding, civilized societies have rarely if ever said in public. That is not commendable in the slightest.
 
Vouthon said:
What I do know is that Trump has given ISIS, Islamists and believers in Political Islam the world over excellent propaganda material.
Click to expand...
When you’re constantly called the “Great Satan”, there isn’t a whole lot of downside in slowing down or limiting immigration.
 
SHANTARAM said:
I know! We cannot give up on our welcoming, multicultural, open society. We must welcome the Muslims, they bring diversity and a good culture that would react with terrorism if we didn’t.
Click to expand...
And diversity is a good to be sought because…???
 
Ridgerunner said:
When you’re constantly called the “Great Satan”, there isn’t a whole lot of downside in slowing down or limiting immigration.
Click to expand...
I’m not talking about hard-core ideological Islamists, whether Shiite like the theocrats in Iran or Sunni like ISIS.

I’m speaking about the recruitment of young men and women, whether through the internet or at clandestine gatherings.

Making it look as if “every” Muslim is being targeted by the authorities plays into the hands of the people who regard you as a “Great Satan”.

Also, the U.S. can certainly bring in immigration controls as it sees fit as a sovereign nation but the question is by what “standard”. Preventing any Muslim worldwide from immigrating to the U.S. is clearly discriminatory and has no productive rationale other than exhibiting an exclusionary and xenophobic attitude which is beneath a Western democracy.

That is not a legitimate, proportionate or indeed “constitutional” basis for immigration reform IMHO, especially for a country founded by immigrants and with a venerable heritage of providing refuge to people fleeing conflict zones and or persecution. I truly think Trump’s proposal is un-American and un-Western.
 
Vouthon said:
That’s an entirely different context from a vacation. If a citizen goes abroad to illegally fight in a war or join a terrorist organization attacking the U.S., then that is grave and in the latter case treasonous.
Click to expand...
Right.
The problem is that we don’t know what they’re doing while they’re
overseas.
I would imagine that it would take alot of work to determine if someone has joined ISIS
while they were visiting the MidEast. We could put those who seem
questionable on the watch list, but
The FBI has said that we have over 900 people who are being watched
right now. There’s a limit to how thinly the Feds can spread themselves.
Which is why I think it’s wise to limit immigration for the time being.
It seems they have their hands full just checking on American citizens
who may have radical leanings.

We don’t want to deprive American citizens of their rights but if we don’t
protect the country from terrorists, none of us will have Constitutional rights.
 
Vouthon said:
He says things that respectable politicians in law-abiding, civilized societies have rarely if ever said in public. That is not commendable in the slightest.
Click to expand...
If he actually gets nominated we should get used to saying “Madame” President.
 
Vouthon said:
I’m not talking about hard-core ideological Islamists, whether Shiite like the theocrats in Iran or Sunni like ISIS.

I’m speaking about the recruitment of young men and women, whether through the internet or at clandestine gatherings.

Making it look as if “every” Muslim is being targeted by the authorities plays into the hands of the people who regard you as a “Great Satan”.

Also, the U.S. can certainly bring in immigration controls as it sees fit as a sovereign nation but the question is by what “standard”. Preventing any Muslim worldwide from immigrating to the U.S. is clearly discriminatory and has no productive rationale other than exhibiting an exclusionary and xenophobic attitude which is beneath a Western democracy.

That is not a legitimate, proportionate or indeed “constitutional” basis for immigration reform IMHO, especially for a country founded by immigrants and with a venerable heritage of providing refuge to people fleeing conflict zones and or persecution. I truly think Trump’s proposal is un-American and un-Western.
Click to expand...
I could be wrong about this, but doubt I am. I think today’s Islamic radicalism has its own dynamic which is not dependent on what the west does.

I’m not trying to promote total bans on immigration. But when aspiring immigrants have to wait up to ten years if they do it right, I see no reason to accelerate it for the sake of people, some of whom we know are terrorist plants.

The law does provide for accelerated admission for those who are being subjected to religious persecution. Therefore, I would certainly consider that for Christians, Yazidis and Druze in Syria because they are demonstrably being persecuted for their religion.

Immigration law changes from time to time to meet national objectives. In my opinion, it really is time for immigration reform. Unfortunately, the current administration does not appear to have the national interest in mind, so for the next year, significant brakes on immigration are reasonable.
 
SHANTARAM said:
I know! We cannot give up on our welcoming, multicultural, open society. We must welcome the Muslims, they bring diversity and a good culture that would react with terrorism if we didn’t.
Click to expand...
Do you know anything about Islam and how they treat women? Please read about Sharia law.

I am not saying I want to ban muslims, I am saying just read about Sharia law.

And Trump is clueless - the male shooter of San Bernadino was BORN HERE. It was his WIFE that was not.
 
I do not think Muslims should be blocked from entering, though why not close America to everyone until we deal with ISIS and other terrorists?
 
Ridgerunner said:
I could be wrong about this, but doubt I am. I think today’s Islamic radicalism has its own dynamic which is not dependent on what the west does.

I’m not trying to promote total bans on immigration. But when aspiring immigrants have to wait up to ten years if they do it right, I see no reason to accelerate it for the sake of people, some of whom we know are terrorist plants.

The law does provide for accelerated admission for those who are being subjected to religious persecution. Therefore, I would certainly consider that for Christians, Yazidis and Druze in Syria because they are demonstrably being persecuted for their religion.

Immigration law changes from time to time to meet national objectives. In my opinion, it really is time for immigration reform. Unfortunately, the current administration does not appear to have the national interest in mind, so for the next year, significant brakes on immigration are reasonable.
Click to expand...
I don’t think I can disagree with that, except to suggest that plenty of Muslims are also being persecuted for their religion, by ISIS, because it’s not sufficiently archaic and brutal or of a different branch altogether.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I could be wrong about this, but doubt I am. I think today’s Islamic radicalism has its own dynamic which is not dependent on what the west does.

I’m not trying to promote total bans on immigration. But when aspiring immigrants have to wait up to ten years if they do it right, I see no reason to accelerate it for the sake of people, some of whom we know are terrorist plants.

The law does provide for accelerated admission for those who are being subjected to religious persecution. Therefore, I would certainly consider that for Christians, Yazidis and Druze in Syria because they are demonstrably being persecuted for their religion.

Immigration law changes from time to time to meet national objectives. In my opinion, it really is time for immigration reform. Unfortunately, the current administration does not appear to have the national interest in mind, so for the next year, significant brakes on immigration are reasonable.
Click to expand...
I don’t think I can disagree with that, except to suggest that plenty of Muslims are also being persecuted for their religion, by ISIS, because it’s not sufficiently archaic and brutal or of a different branch altogether. I guess the problem is it’s hard to distinguish, and there is the tension between the charitable and Christian thing to do, which is let everyone who is in need to come, and the sensible and practical thing to do, which is to use moderation in that. I kind of feel uneasy about distinguishing groups of refugees purely on their religion though, however reasonable the motivation.
 
No special interests buy Trump, he wants to keep Americans great. Good for him.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I could be wrong about this, but doubt I am. I think today’s Islamic radicalism has its own dynamic which is not dependent on what the west does.
Click to expand...
On the part of the “true believers” yes. Someone like Imam Khomeini in his prime or Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi views the West as a perpetual “House of War” that cannot be compromised with (albeit the Twelver Shiites don’t believe in a caliph having the right to declare jihad proper, this being the prerogative of the Hidden Imam who is occultation). Such folk are never going to be anything other than opposed in principle to everything we stand for and hold dear.

But I don’t believe that our actions are entirely inconsequential when it comes to recruitment and the indoctrination of young minds.

Certainly our inaction in the first phase of the Syrian Civil War had immense consequences for radicalization. By refusing to explicitly aid secular, moderate opposition figures and have a clear, concerted response to the crisis, we lost the “narrative” so to speak and it was taken up by Islamists as the rebel zone became a vacuum in which they emerged as the most effective, organised branch of the opposition.

Russia also had a clear “narrative”: Assad’s survival is in Russia and Iran’s national interest, so he must remain at all costs. Hey presto.

So I do think we have to guard what images we portray and actions we take (or do not take). ISIS are very good at propaganda, particularly through social media.

Many of the Islamists have a clear “narrative”. We don’t and IMHO idiots like Trump are only worsening the situation.
 
Ph0enix said:
as big as his wallet im sure lol '😉
Click to expand...
Which means he is not bought buy special interests,

No Israeli lobby, no foundation receiving millions from Iran and Saudi Arabia, no donations from the same-sex marriage lobby and so on.

He is his own.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top